.

[SnowyMacie]

wrong thread, move along

 

[fat wee robin]

I am extremely grateful to have attended public schools from kindergarten through the 8th grade. I feel that I've benefitted hugely by being in a classroom every day for years with kids & teachers who came from families different from my own family. I think learning how to be a citizen is an important part of growing up, and going to school helps you to learn citizenship. It teaches you how to interact with other people. It expands your mind & socialization. You learn so much from your teachers but you learn so much from other kids too, like how to handle conflict. If my family hadn't moved out of America, I would have kept going to public schools. The biggest crush when I found out we were moving was that I wouldn't be attending the HS in Seattle I was set to go to, because it's got an excellent reputation. It's where all my friends went & were happy. I would have been able to earn dual enrollment credit through UW. They have amazing music & athletic programs.

I now go to an online school run by a really great college. I just finished the 10th grade. I made a perfect 5 on my AP exams, so I'll be able to earn college credit from them. My parents are very smart, but I don't think they could have taught me so many different advanced classes anywhere near as well as my teachers. The OHS has the advantages of homeschooling like flexibility to travel, but each of my teachers has a Masters degree or higher in his or her subject. My teachers grade my work, not my parents. I'm not living in a cocoon. I'm in a classroom every day with kids from around the world. We have meet-ups several times a year. Neil DeGrasse Tyson came to one of them! We still have homecoming, prom, education.

I got started in music back in kindergarten at my public school. The music teacher there taught me how to play the piano. She told my parents that I had promise in music. Starting in the 1st grade, I went to an on campus after-school program where I had piano lessons. I just finished the highest level possible for piano certification at the Royal Conservatory of Music. There are kids who've homeschooled just to have more time with music, but it's taken them longer. I think having excellent teachers helped me to move up more quickly. I was in the middle school orchestra & that lead to me being in the city's youth orchestra. Since I have my certification, I was able to get a job with a music center. I'm going to be making a nice salary for only being 16. My older sister also got into music at public schools. She started at the same time I did, but became really fantastic really fast. She has Asperger's & had some difficulty being at school sometimes, but the good definitely outweighed the bad. Going to school helped her to learn really important social cues. It helps her not just with school, but with life. She got a full merit scholarship to the University of Chicago. It's one of the best universities in the world & it's crazy expensive. $71,000 a year, & she got a four year scholarship. That's how much they wanted her. So I think her public school education served her extremely well in life! I am hoping to get a scholarship there, too.

 

[RDKirk]

It really depends on the children. If they are advanced then they get a much better education in public schools. There is just no comparison, they can graduate from High School with a 2 year college degree all paid for by the High school. If you afford a high priced private school some students can get a better education there then in public schools. I do not think there is a one size fits all because everyone has different needs. In some cases there are people that feel they are better off home schooling.

From what you just said, the people who are better off home schooling are all those who are not advanced or do not have wealthy parents. [/quote]

But I am not a big home schooling fan. Students need to develop social and communication skills.[/quote]

That is the most frequently touted reason for preferring a public school, and it's also the worst reason. First, parents who home school are rarely hermits. Their kids usually do get out to youth activities that are better social environments than public schools.

The youth culture of most public schools (particularly middle and high schools) operates at a level of social brutality just above prison culture...and for the same reasons. The "social skills" kids learn in school must be "unlearned" in order for them to operate in adult society. In the 90s the US Marine Corps added an entire week to their basic training just to spend more time "untraining" kids from what they thought were real life moral values that they learned in high school.

In some cases that is more important then the education. I see people that have Medical Degrees or PhD's that are a flat line when it comes to social skills. They would have been much better to concentrate on developing those skills before they got their higher education.

After their having spent eight or ten years being out of their parents' homes, you can't blame any continued lack of social skills on their home schooling. They're just not trying.

Government schools are find for students that are smart enough to see where they Gov is trying to brain wash them and they laugh it off and don't allow the propaganda to effect them. If they are not smart enough to figure that out then indoctrinate them into a system that agrees with your values.

And you just gave another reason for homeschooling.

 

[joshua 1 9]

That is the most frequently touted reason for preferring a public school, and it's also the worst reason. First, parents who homeschool are rarely hermits. Their kids usually do get out to youth activities that are better social environments than public schools.

My son took a 3D printer class at the high school. Where is a home school student going to get the opportunity to take that class? Also he was taking classes at the university and the high school was paying for it. It would be nice IF Trump would offer this to home school students, but it remains to be seen if the taxpayers are going to extend this to the nonpublic school students. It is possible for a High School student to graduate from High School with a two year college degree. If they start early and work hard. Also my son got a $25,000 scholarship and I know of public school students that can get up to a $60,000 scholarships based on how hard they worked in High School and how much they took advantage of the advanced classes.

 

[chevyontheriver]

My son took a 3D printer class at the high school.

Wonderful.

Where is a home school student going to get the opportunity to take that class?

Unless the parents are rich it's not going to happen. It's unfair, don't you think, that taxpayer money goes to some students, the ones in public schools, but is not allowed for any other students?

Also he was taking classes at the university and the high school was paying for it.

Wonderful again.

It would be nice IF Trump would offer this to home school students, but it remains to be seen if the taxpayers are going to extend this to the nonpublic school students.

Why should taxpayers be funding public schools exclusively and not all students? I mean aren't parents who home school or have students in private schools also taxpayers? Why can't their students benefit as well?

It is possible for a High School student to graduate from High School with a two year college degree. If they start early and work hard. Also my son got a $25,000 scholarship and I know of public school students that can get up to a $60,000 scholarships based on how hard they worked in High School and how much they took advantage of the advanced classes.

Well my children were not homeschooled but attended Catholic schools and they did exceptionally well in college, They were better prepared for college than many of their public schooled peers, and they got scholarships from their colleges.

Government schools can do well in some cases. But in many others they are wastelands where poor and middle income parents are trapped into sending their children to substandard schools. The rich have no problem either with a private school or escaping to a nice suburban public school district. The rest of us struggle to do what we can, and it is painful to have to pay tuition for a decent parochial school AND taxes for a failing government school. You came out like a bandit, but some of us struggled for our children, to have a place where the essentials were well taught, where there were no condom dispensers, and where the idea that we were created in the image and likeness of God was taught. You can brag about all the goodies public school students get, but it is an equity issue that not all students have access to taxpayer support and that it is kept for only some.

The origin of public money for public schools goes way back to WASP attempts to combat Catholic schools. Look it up. We once had rational local funding for students, but the WASPs had to figure out how to exclude Catholic students in Catholic schools from any of this. It should be, and should have always been, that students got public support, not just some students. It's a matter of equity.

 

[Albion]

We once had rational local funding for students, but the WASPs had to figure out how to exclude Catholic students in Catholic schools from any of this. It should be, and should have always been, that students got public support, not just some students. It's a matter of equity.

Logically--and legally--if Catholic (and Lutheran and Muslim, etc.) schools were required to admit all applicants regardless of religion and not teach religious studies to any of them (which would be unconstititional), there might be an argument for public financing of all schools equally.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Logically--and legally--if Catholic (and Lutheran and Muslim, etc.) schools were required to admit all applicants regardless of religion and not teach religious studies to any of them (which would be unconstititional), there might be an argument for public financing of all schools equally.

It's not actually a question of public support for all schools. It's about public support of all students. Only some students get public support now. And the public support they get often means inadequate education anyhow. Given the choice, which for a short time was possible in the District of Columbia before Obama quashed it, poor and middle class students could get assistance to opt out of the government schools. All sorts of students and their parents jumped at the chance to be able to afford a non-government school.

For the record, my children did go to Catholic schools. They were there with many students who were not Catholic. They got a better education than they could have otherwise in the nearby government schools, with far less need for metal detectors at the school door. Religion classes were for every student. If you don't like that idea, fight against it tooth and nail. My point is that if we are going to be assisting students as a society, we ought to assist all students, not just those that go to government monopoly schools.

 

[Paidiske]

It might be worth noting that in Australia, the government does fund non-state schools on a per-student basis (provided those schools meet certain minimum criteria with regard to curriculum etc), including religious schools. While I do think this reflects a degree of justice, doing it this way is also not without problems. If you're interested to see whether the grass is really greener, it might be worth doing some reading about the Gonski review (and the government's abject failure to implement its recommendations).

 

[RDKirk]

My son took a 3D printer class at the high school. Where is a home school student going to get the opportunity to take that class?

Are you implying that all public schools have 3d printers? I assure you: They do not. If not, what is your point...more individuals have 3D printers than do public schools.

We are planning for my daughter's children to be homeschooled by us. They will learn how to build computers, how to program computers, how to install residential plumbing, how to speak Latin and Spanish, how to install residential electrical, how to bake a cake from scratch, how to garden, how to raise livestock, how to conjugate verbs, how to photograph a portrait, how to paint a portrait, how to write a sonnet, how to diagram sentences, how to prove a theorem, how to overhaul an automobile engine, how to understand Aristotle, how to write an instruction manual, and many other things public schools do not touch.

They'll also interact with other youth at church, in Scouts, and with the children of friends and family.

Also he was taking classes at the university and the high school was paying for it. It would be nice IF Trump would offer this to home school students, but it remains to be seen if the taxpayers are going to extend this to the nonpublic school students. It is possible for a High School student to graduate from High School with a two year college degree. If they start early and work hard. Also my son got a $25,000 scholarship and I know of public school students that can get up to a $60,000 scholarships based on how hard they worked in High School and how much they took advantage of the advanced classes.

There are plenty of scholarship programs around. I know of a young woman who made a part-time job out of going thorough the yellow pages and sending a scholarship request package to each business. Put herself completely through college that way and got an immediate job writing grant request packages for non-profits.

 

[chevyontheriver]

It might be worth noting that in Australia, the government does fund non-state schools on a per-student basis (provided those schools meet certain minimum criteria with regard to curriculum etc), including religious schools. While I do think this reflects a degree of justice, doing it this way is also not without problems. If you're interested to see whether the grass is really greener, it might be worth doing some reading about the Gonski review (and the government's abject failure to implement its recommendations).

Thank you for the recommendation. I'll try to find it. I don't know if the 'grass is greener' elsewhere. Just that it's not very green here unless you live in the right suburb for a relatively good government school, or else you're rich enough to pay private school tuition out of pocket change. For the rest of us it is scrimp and borrow and beg to afford the government school taxes AND a Catholic school education. I'm not talking an elite snobby expensive Catholic school either, but an inner city one that took in all comers.

One possible drawback to public funding of all students could be that the government could use that to get it's tentacles into homeschool and private school curriculum. It's one thing to have some minimal standards. It's another to mandate education with something like Common Core. That was a flop that even public school teachers grew to hate.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Are you implying that all public schools have 3d printers? I assure you: They do not. If not, what is your point...more individuals have 3D printers than do public schools.

We are planning for my daughter's children to be homeschooled by us. They will learn how to build computers, how to program computers, how to install residential plumbing, how to speak Latin and Spanish, how to install residential electrical, how to bake a cake from scratch, how to garden, how to raise livestock, how to conjugate verbs, how to photograph a portrait, how to paint a portrait, how to write a sonnet, how to diagram sentences, how to prove a theorem, how to overhaul an automobile engine, how to understand Aristotle, how to write an instruction manual, and many other things public schools do not touch.

They'll also interact with other youth at church, in Scouts, and with the children of friends and family.



There are plenty of scholarship programs around. I know of a young woman who made a part-time job out of going thorough the yellow pages and sending a scholarship request package to each business. Put herself completely through college that way and got an immediate job writing grant request packages for non-profits.

All my son did was apply to the university and when he got his acceptance letter they informed him that he would receive $24,000 in merit scholarships. He would have gotten more but I got some bad advise from my brother that cost us around $15,000 in scholarships.

I am not a big fan of home schooling but you have to do what you feel is best and right for you. No doubt we are to be sanctified and separate from the world. Of course that is going to be a lot easier if you never leave the house and get out into the real world.

If you are capable of teaching them yourself that is fine. The people that I know that home schools gives them a computer program that takes about two hours a day and that is it. They develop very little if any social skills and I question if they learn how to function in the real world. A lot of times they end up home schooled because they are bullied and can not learn how to get along with people.

 

[RDKirk]

I am not a big fan of home schooling but you have to do what you feel is best and right for you. No doubt we are to be sanctified and separate from the world. Of course that is going to be a lot easier if you never leave the house and get out into the real world.

If you noticed, I never mentioned religion as a reason for home schooling. I guess you're actually talking to someone else.

If you are capable of teaching them yourself that is fine. The people that I know that home schools gives them a computer program that takes about two hours a day and that is it.

You don't know everyone.

They develop very little if any social skills and I question if they learn how to function in the real world. A lot of times they end up home schooled because they are bullied and can not learn how to get along with people.

Your last two sentences contradict each other another.

 

[joshua 1 9]

It's unfair, don't you think, that taxpayer money goes to some students, the ones in public schools, but is not allowed for any other students?

The school system takes the money and gives it to the advanced students that work the hardest. They invest in the student that is going to be a doctor, engineer or contribute more then the students destine to work at McDonald and do not want to work or take advantage of the opportunities that are available for them.

I do not know what program Trump is going to propose to give funds to private schools. I would be interested to see what they come up with. I did better in private schools compared to public school so I know that private school do provide an education that public schools are not able to provide.

 

[Paidiske]

One possible drawback to public funding of all students could be that the government could use that to get it's tentacles into homeschool and private school curriculum. It's one thing to have some minimal standards. It's another to mandate education with something like Common Core. That was a flop that even public school teachers grew to hate.

From what I understand of Common Core (based on a quick google-and-read) our minimum curriculum is much more comprehensive. Basically, it sets out the curriculum requirements for all schools at all year levels in all subjects, except for religious education which schools are free to structure as they see fit.

But this is taken for granted and not controversial here.

 

[Cimorene]

That is the most frequently touted reason for preferring a public school, and it's also the worst reason. First, parents who home school are rarely hermits. Their kids usually do get out to youth activities that are better social environments than public schools.

If they're regularly interacting with kids who come from different backgrounds then they're getting some of the same benefit as going to school. But I think a lot of them only interact with other kids from their church or who also homeschool so they don't get the broader range. I teach cello to a girl my age who home schools. I'm literally her only social activity. I feel super awful for her but there's not much I can do but be her friend & do my best with teaching her.

The youth culture of most public schools (particularly middle and high schools) operates at a level of social brutality just above prison culture...and for the same reasons. The "social skills" kids learn in school must be "unlearned" in order for them to operate in adult society. In the 90s the US Marine Corps added an entire week to their basic training just to spend more time "untraining" kids from what they thought were real life moral values that they learned in high school.

I went to public schools from kindergarten through 8th grade and I would have kept going to them if we hadn't moved to Canada. I LOVED them. It's necessary to write that all in caps to emphasize the love!!!! My life has been forever enriched by attending them. I'm close friends still with the kids who go to the HS I would have gone to if we hadn't moved, and they are thriving. Socially & academically. Most of them are in a head start program where you begin college in the 11th grade & get dual enrollment credit. That way when he graduate from HS you've already finished your 1st 2 years of college. It saves a huge amount of time and money. They'll graduate college young & can go ahead and start grad school. There's not a similar program to that here, but I started taking classes at UBC when I was 15. Now I'm taking classes at the University of Toronto. I've already finished the highest available math classes at the HS level & I'm in the 11th grade. I credit all that to my awesome public school math teachers back in middle school bc they set me up for HS!

I'm sure that some high schools operate at the "social brutality above prison culture" but gracious knows that's not the way all do!!!!

 

[RDKirk]

The school system takes the money and gives it to the advanced students that work the hardest. They invest in the student that is going to be a doctor, engineer or contribute more then the students destine to work at McDonald and do not want to work or take advantage of the opportunities that are available for them.

A few higher-end public schools do that. A very few. And that--as you acknowledge--only for their advanced students, who are only a few of the very few.

 

[RDKirk]

I'm sure that some high schools operate at the "social brutality above prison culture" but gracious knows that's not the way all do!!!!

Actually, they all do. Every single one. In most we're talking about something equivalent to "minimum security prisons," but all high schools are a mirror of prison culture--and for exactly the same reasons. Society sets up the same environmental factors for high schools as for prisons. Even modern high school buildings themselves often use prison architectural designs...for the same reasons.

So you have the same cultural development features in both...which have to be unlearned for the person to operate when he's finally released into the "real world." "Mean Girls" is the same culture as "Orange is the New Black."

 

[joshua 1 9]

A few higher-end public schools do that. A very few. And that--as you acknowledge--only for their advanced students, who are only a few of the very few.

Every school in this area does it. My son attended three different universities while he was in High School. He took the more basic classes but they went beyond what he could receive from the High School. Also he was not allowed to attend any social clubs at the university. AT the time he was happy to socialize with the High School Students.

The 3D computer printer class was at the University and he had a conflict with marching band. So I called the counselor at the university and then I talked to the guidance counselor at the High School. The next semester they added the class to the High School so he was able to take it at that time. I know the University he is at now has a 3D printer he can use at the Library that he can use if he wants. He said there are problems to get the program to work and you have to get it adjusted right to print out what you want to make.

The University here is also doing research on a polymer ink to use with 3D printers for nanotechnology manufacturing. Right now he wants to stick to Computer Engineering and I can not get him interested in Chemical Engineering. One of his cousins has a masters degree in Chemistry and is working for NASA right now. This field is wide open and he should have a job even before he graduates. They like to hire them their senior year. We are hoping he gets a job in the area here and does not go running off. Although they could go anywhere in the world to work. They pay starts at $85,000 a year, even if they do not have a degree.

All of our kids are this way. We are a Filipino-American community. There is no inbreeding here. Filipinos and Americans are about as far apart as you can get genetically. The kids of all our friends are very healthy and they do very well in school and they get really good scholarships. Maybe because they are considered a minority and I am sure that helps. No one at school has ever guess just what "race" my son is. They have guessed everything other then what he really is. His mom is a sagun so I am sure that somewhere along the way he is related to carl sagan. That is middle east and they are known for their mathematical abilities. That is why there is a big fight with the technology companies trying to get the best most qualified people into the country to do the work. Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos and 18 others have committed $1 billion to fight immigration laws.

 

[Cimorene]

Actually, they all do. Every single one. In most we're talking about something equivalent to "minimum security prisons," but all high schools are a mirror of prison culture--and for exactly the same reasons. Society sets up the same environmental factors for high schools as for prisons. Even modern high school buildings themselves often use prison architectural designs...for the same reasons.

So you have the same cultural development features in both...which have to be unlearned for the person to operate when he's finally released into the "real world." "Mean Girls" is the same culture as "Orange is the New Black."

I shared your post with my teachers today for their experienced insight. They soundly disagree with you. I'll trust those with decades of educational experience over a random stranger on the internet bent on insulting public education & using fallacious arguments. The more you write, the more I continue to be proud & grateful to have attended public schools.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

We are planning for my daughter's children to be homeschooled by us. They will learn how to build computers, how to program computers, how to install residential plumbing, how to speak Latin and Spanish, how to install residential electrical, how to bake a cake from scratch, how to garden, how to raise livestock, how to conjugate verbs, how to photograph a portrait, how to paint a portrait, how to write a sonnet, how to diagram sentences, how to prove a theorem, how to overhaul an automobile engine, how to understand Aristotle, how to write an instruction manual, and many other things public schools do not touch.

They'll also interact with other youth at church, in Scouts, and with the children of friends and family.

This is very impressive. Good job for doing all this. If I had children, I would send them to your house for education (paid of course) and if we were neighbors. I think children have to be educated just to prepare themselves for the hardships that they would face in public schools. I would prefer educating my future child at home (if that was God's will and it was possible). My course education would be not be as complex and diverse as yours (if I were to do one in the future). I can naturally teach them very well on the topics of the Bible, Writing, Speaking, and Art. I would love to send them to a survival instructor to teach them how to survive off the land. For this is something I always desire to learn while in school and never made the time to do so. I was in boyscouts, but I only learned how to tie a square knot, and cook eggs inside an orange peel on a camp fire.

I think public school is the only option for many parents (even Christian parents) because they are trying to both work to put food on the table (unfortunately). But it is my prayer that more Christian couples find a way to homeschool their children (as long as they make sure their children are attending social activities like the boyscouts, etc.). Anyways, I strongly believe there is a deeper bond built between parents and children if they are homeschooled by them. This to me is a value that you cannot put a price on.

Anyways, God bless you and yours.
And peace be unto you.

Side Note:

I think if parents are forced to send their children to public schools, a strong education in the Bible and Young Earth Creationism (and the falsehood of Evolution) at home beforehand would be a good option. Also a home course on the destructive nature of drugs and alcohol at the right age would help, too. A home course on how to communicate with others and how to be their friend would also be helpful. A course on "What Would Jesus Do?" or "Being an example for Jesus" (if kids laugh at you, etc.). For there are many things that you have to defend your children against at a public school.


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