.

[stephen583]

Should we expect the same kind of miracles that occurred in the time of Jesus and the Apostle Paul to be happening now ? Healings, resurrections of the dead, prophets who are able to walk out of prisons, call forth droughts and earthquakes, and consume their enemies with fire simply by speaking the Word of God ?

The Bible emphatically assures us these things will take place during the final days. I'm not going to be tedious and redundant and list all the Scriptural evidence again, as I'm certain it has been posted numerous times in this thread already.

Nor am I here to add to the Preterist view these miracles only relate to the Day of Pentecost and the Early Church. I believe there is ample evidence in the Gospel, the teachings of the Apostles and the Revelation to indicate miracles such those mentioned above, will take place in the final days immediately before the Second Advent of Christ.

The Bible does not explicitly state anywhere such miracles will be continuously in evidence between the time of the Early Church and the last seven years, (The Tribulation Period). In fact, it indicates the exact opposite. Bible prophecy speaks of a time, when men will exhibit all the "outward appearance of godliness, but they will not manifest any of the power thereof", (2 Timothy 3:5). Also called the "great falling away", (2 Thessalonians 2:3).

Clearly, there will be no continuous or great manifestation of these miracles until the final days of the Church when Elijah and the two witnesses appear to "Restore what has been lost", (Luke 1:17, Malachi 4:6, Revelation 11:1-4).

 

[Archie the Preacher]

Should we expect the same kind of miracles that occurred in the time of Jesus and the Apostle Paul to be happening now ? Healings, resurrections of the dead, prophets who are able to walk out of prisons, call forth droughts and earthquakes, and consume their enemies with fire simply by speaking the Word of God ? The Bible emphatically assures us these things will take place during the End Times. I'm not going to be tedious and redundant and list all the Scriptural evidence again, as I'm sure it has been posted numerous times in this thread already.

Nor am I here to add to the Partial-Preterist argument these miracles only relate to the Day of Pentecost and the Early Church. I believe there is ample evidence in the Gospel, the teachings of the Apostles and the Revelation to indicate miracles such those mentioned above, will take place during our time.

I'll agree to what you say; with the addition and caveat such miracles happen at the instigation of God Himself and NOT due to any person's desire to be a miracle worker.

There are three possible reasons one doesn't see miracles. One is the lack of confidence the 'average' (whatever that is) has in God. Two is the lack of need in God's Mind and Will for miracles. Three is the lack of perception of many to understand a miracle has occurred, and it's not just 'coincidence'.

 

[stephen583]

Imagine the impact these two witnesses will have when they do appear. Organized religion, even with all its' earthly wealth and influence, will be powerless to stop them. Churches will empty in droves, as entire congregations abandon their brick and mortar religious tombs and cast off their Sunday finery, to witness the miracles and hear the words of these two witnesses. It will be like living in the time of John the Baptist and the Apostle Paul all over again.

But we are getting ahead of ourselves, because no such restoration of Christianity to its' beginnings, or great miracles continuously manifest by two witnesses has taken place in "modern times". Not yet, anyway.

 

[stephen583]

n

 

[com7fy8]

Jesus did real miracles, and they crucified Him.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

QUOTE "stephen583, post: 69982039, member: 383872"]Should we expect the same kind of miracles that occurred in the time of Jesus and the Apostle Paul to be happening now ? Healings, resurrections of the dead, prophets who are able to walk out of prisons, call forth droughts and earthquakes, and consume their enemies with fire simply by speaking the Word of God ? The Bible emphatically assures us these things will take place during the End Times. I'm not going to be tedious and redundant and list all the Scriptural evidence again, as I'm sure it has been posted numerous times in this thread already.

Nor am I here to add to the Partial-Preterist argument these miracles only relate to the Day of Pentecost and the Early Church. I believe there is ample evidence in the Gospel, the teachings of the Apostles and the Revelation to indicate miracles such those mentioned above, will take place during our time. QUOTE
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(1) Seek, and keep Seeking, and you(pl,general) will find.
Since this is God's Word, it is true.
(2) If someone seeks the like of miracles on this page, they will find them,
even if there are no miracles. This is demonstrated EVERY DAY TODAY,
by people who "find" ('religious' mumbo gumbo polly wolly whoo!)
for a variety of reasons? - mass hypnosis, mass deception, individual deception, demonic deception, the 'leaders' whoop it up- tell grand gifts, grand tales, as if from God when they know not God thus tricking the crowds of listeners/ joiners. i.e. big religious(or other) gatherings where the people exclaim afterwards = "oh it was so great!" "oh oh oh it was so good" "it was wonderful" "people were healed! the spirit(?) was moving, we could FEEL the presence" "everything was soo.....
...................................................
...... the above portion was prepared before the quote and below portion......
......................................................................

Imagine the impact these two witnesses will have when they do appear. Organized religion, even with all its' earthly wealth and influence, will be powerless to stop them. Churches will empty in droves, as entire congregations abandon their brick and mortar religious tombs and cast off their Sunday finery, to witness the miracles and hear the words of these two witnesses. It will be like living in the time of John the Baptist and the Apostle Paul all over again.
......

There appears to be little likelihood that the churches will empty at all due to the two witnesses , let alone in droves.
That may be a response to a hope that things will work out that way, but who
sees that in what Scripture says ?
IF people don't listen to Jesus.
IF people don't listen to Moses (who pointed to Jesus).
IF people don't honor God's Word (that seems to be one of your points).
Then they are not going to leave church(es) to see the two witnesses.
(True, there is 'hope' that some or many will...... but what does Scripture say?)
The world might set up large screen or holographic(already used to deceive whole towns in poor countries) systems in churches and auditoriums and coffee houses and bars
to watch the two witnesses and either pray and rejoice OR mock and be angry at them (and PARTY when they are killed!) ....

There's not much if any indication
that people will respond like some crowds did to Jesus and the apostles and Yochanan the immerser .....

Will crowds of people start lining up to repent and to be immersed by the two witnesses ?
Perhaps, maybe even let's hope and pray so,
but I don't see that in Scripture .

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Jesus did real miracles, and they crucified Him.

That's what they do today too. Daily. All around the world.

In many churches even, healing is forbidden and sickness is promoted !

 

[com7fy8]

But, what about James 5:16? This to me seems to be about healing which is not only physical. I suspect ones can overly emphasize physical and outward healings, and not deal with correctional healing of our character.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

But, what about James 5:16? This to me seems to be about healing which is not only physical. I suspect ones can overly emphasize physical and outward healings, and not deal with correctional healing of our character.

James 5:16 is Truth. What about James - what about any Scripture ?
It is not practiced (not as God says in Scripture) anywhere I know of, in any of the churches in the untied states and not in most around the world.
People hide instead of share their sins, their monetary resources, their assets, etc etc etc ... ... ...
and hardly ever have a testimony of what Jesus has done for them and their family (Scripturally -- not the "bless me bless me crowds") ...

 

[Archie the Preacher]

But we are getting ahead of ourselves, because no such restoration of Christianity to its' beginnings, or great miracles continuously manifest by two witnesses has taken place in "modern times". Not yet, anyway.

Ah, speak for yourself. Or perhaps, open your eyes. God is not dead or missing.

 

[com7fy8]

James 5:16 is Truth. What about James - what about any Scripture ?
It is not practiced (not as God says in Scripture) anywhere I know of, in any of the churches in the untied states and not in most around the world.

I have seen us having mutual confession and mutual healing prayer in home groups. Also, in my personal sharing I might mutually minister or simply pray for someone who admits to a problem. It may not be meant to be a public formality thing. Also, in at least one addiction recovery ministry one is supposed to confess everything to another person and seek God's correction in prayer. In our group we talk about ourselves and pray together.

But the ones obeying this could be humble and not making a major show of it . . . while others covering up and in denial can make a big show. And so, you could get the impression that no one is having mutual confession with mutual healing prayer to get us "healed" of what makes us able to sin and suffer and "healed" together with God and one another in His love, instead.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

QUOTE="com7fy8, I have seen us having mutual confession and mutual healing prayer in home groups. Also, in my personal sharing I might mutually minister or simply pray for someone who admits to a problem. It may not be meant to be a public formality thing. Also, in at least one addiction recovery ministry one is supposed to confess everything to another person and seek God's correction in prayer. In our group we talk about ourselves and pray together.

But the ones obeying this could be humble and not making a major show of it . . . while others covering up and in denial can make a big show. And so, you could get the impression that no one is having mutual confession with mutual healing prayer to get us "healed" of what makes us able to sin and suffer and "healed" together with God and one another in His love, instead.QUOTE

Yes, like in Malachi it is written/prophesied a few would gather together
, and perhaps written/prophesied also in Revelation.

 

[stephen583]

I'll agree to what you say; with the addition and caveat such miracles happen at the instigation of God Himself and NOT due to any person's desire to be a miracle worker.

I agree completely. It's clear God chooses whomever he will, and these things happen at their appointed time. Who knows who these two witnesses are now ?! They may not even be the kind of people we would choose for such an incredible mission of salvation. Moses was a murderer, Saul of Tarsus held the cloaks of those who stoned Christians to death, and John the Baptist was a homeless guy who ate bugs and preferred to sleep on the bare ground. However, once these two witnesses are called upon by God, everything will change.

 

[stephen583]

Will crowds of people start lining up to repent and to be immersed by the two witnesses ?
Perhaps, maybe even let's hope and pray so,
but I don't see that in Scripture .

Neither do I. The two witnesses won't be reenacting John's water baptism. That time has come and gone. They will be baptizing by the Holy Spirit and "FIRE", (which is the Tribulation Period itself). John the Baptist himself attested to this, (Matthew 3:11, Luke 3:16).

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

....They will be baptizing by the Holy Spirit and "FIRE", (which is the Tribulation Period itself). John the Baptist himself attested to this, (Matthew 3:11, Luke 3:16).

I don't believe this about the two witnesses nor about the tribulation or the tribulation period.
-
simply and directly I believe Scripture says plainly only Yeshua can immerse in His Ruach HaKodesh(spelling varies) .
As for the "Fire", that is best left out of this forum for many reasons at this time.
(or really just one reason; Yhwh's Purpose).
Having said that, perhaps it will be revealed soon ("Fire and Yhwh's Purpose);
to a few anyway. (His Chosen Called Ones).
it is up to Yhwh entirely, and not man.

 

[stephen583]

I don't believe this about the two witnesses nor about the tribulation or the tribulation period.

That's perfectly O.K.

Your belief is not a requirement for the fulfillment of these prophecies.

It's like someone falling down drunk and laying across a railroad track. You can "HEAR" a fright train coming from a long way off. If you remain on the tracks, you'll "See The Light". If you continue to lay on the tracks, in a couple of more seconds, it's "IMPACT". It really doesn't matter whether you believe in trains, or not. That's how REALITY works. I used to be a policeman and an EMT firemen. This happens more than you imagine. It was my job to walk down the tracks, pick up the little pieces of flesh and put them in plastic bags. So good luck with your philosophy and theology.

 

[stephen583]

As for the religious ignoring these two End Time witnesses described in Revelation 11:1-4, and choosing to remain in their dead temples of stone and mortar instead... How exactly did that work out for the Pharisees and Sadducees in 70 A.D ?