.

[Arsenios]

Well, Tim tells us that we are saved and then obey God, and that this is the Gospel of Jesus Christ...

He says that this is a reversal of traditional religion, where obedience leads to Salvation...

Do YOU believe that this is the Gospel of Jesus Christ?

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

There is only one gospel.

Are you really denying that the Gospel of Jesus Christ...
The Good News for Mankind...
IS that the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand...
And that there is something YOU can DO about it?
That repentance is the human key to Salvation...?

Did not Christ say: "Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand!"?

Is this not Biblical?

Arsenios

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Are you really denying that the Gospel of Jesus Christ...
The Good News for Mankind...
IS that the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand...
And that there is something YOU can DO about it?
That repentance is the human key to Salvation...?

Did not Christ say: "Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand!"?

Is this not Biblical?

Arsenios

I don't want to get into a debate about this with you and spoil our beautiful friendship.

 

[sunlover1]

Are you really denying that the Gospel of Jesus Christ...
The Good News for Mankind...
IS that the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand...
And that there is something YOU can DO about it?
That repentance is the human key to Salvation...?

Did not Christ say: "Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand!"?

Is this not Biblical?

Arsenios

I don't want to get into a debate about this with you and spoil our beautiful friendship.

Made ya'll a thread!
Click here
I'd love to hear your description too ThatBrian,
due to your earlier comments on the Gospel.
It's very important that we all have the same
frame of reference.

 

[Peter J Barban]

Back to the original post:

The weekend before 911 in 2001, I read a prophecy by Clay Sikes which went:

"As I finished this writing, the Holy Spirit spoke to me prophetically:

AWAKEN! AWAKEN! NOT ONLY TO THE SPHERE, BUT ALSO TO THE FACT THAT I HAVE GIVEN YOU SPIRITUAL AUTHORITY AND PURPOSE. AWAKEN EARLY TO UNDERSTAND THE SPIRITUAL AUTHORITY I HAVE GIVEN AND THE SPHERES OF ITS APPLICATION. I MAY SPEAK BUT A SINGLE WORD FOR YOU TO KNOW WHERE YOU HAVE BEEN GIVEN POWER TO PRAY AND SPEAK MY WORD."
​

Early on the pre 911 Sunday morning, I accidentally woke early. I sat up in bed and wondered if God was going to apply this message to me, so I asked God where was my sphere of spiritual authority. Almost instantly God spoke to my mind, one word repeatedly: "Washington, Washington, Washington ..."

I was very confident that God directly spoke to me about Washington D.C. However, since I live on the other side of the world, I put aside grand thoughts of Billy Graham style ministry and I decided to just pray for Washington every night. I told my Sunday Bible class about that experience the same day.

Just a day or two later were the terror attacks on 911 and I understood better the need to pray for Washington.

Months later, I wrote to an African-American Christian blogger from Washington how I could best intercede for her city. She said that I should pray for the black men to return to their families and the black women to invest in their children. So, every night I pray for those things and for Black churches to rise up for God.

This is one of the benefits of hearing the voice of God: God can tell me what to pray for in specific ways that the Bible cannot address.

 

[sunlover1]

Back to the original post:

The weekend before 911 in 2001, I read a prophecy by Clay Sikes which went:

"As I finished this writing, the Holy Spirit spoke to me prophetically:

AWAKEN! AWAKEN! NOT ONLY TO THE SPHERE, BUT ALSO TO THE FACT THAT I HAVE GIVEN YOU SPIRITUAL AUTHORITY AND PURPOSE. AWAKEN EARLY TO UNDERSTAND THE SPIRITUAL AUTHORITY I HAVE GIVEN AND THE SPHERES OF ITS APPLICATION. I MAY SPEAK BUT A SINGLE WORD FOR YOU TO KNOW WHERE YOU HAVE BEEN GIVEN POWER TO PRAY AND SPEAK MY WORD."
​

Early on the pre 911 Sunday morning, I accidentally woke early. I sat up in bed and wondered if God was going to apply this message to me, so I asked God where was my sphere of spiritual authority. Almost instantly God spoke to my mind, one word repeatedly: "Washington, Washington, Washington ..."

I was very confident that God directly spoke to me about Washington D.C. However, since I live on the other side of the world, I put aside grand thoughts of Billy Graham style ministry and I decided to just pray for Washington every night. I told my Sunday Bible class about that experience the same day.

Just a day or two later were the terror attacks on 911 and I understood better the need to pray for Washington.

Testimony for your Bible Class.

Months later, I wrote to an African-American Christian blogger from Washington how I could best intercede for her city. She said that I should pray for the black men to return to their families and the black women to invest in their children. So, every night I pray for those things and for Black churches to rise up for God.

God bless you!

This is one of the benefits of hearing the voice of God: God can tell me what to pray for in specific ways that the Bible cannot address.

Life with God is so exciting!
Thanks for sharing two of your own experiences!
regardless of what other's "think"..

But if they're wrong, they're mocking "friends of God"
And if they're right, they're mocking mistaken "friends of God"
Lose lose situation.
Gen 12:3

 

[Peter J Barban]

Testimony for your Bible Class.


God bless you!


Life with God is so exciting!
Thanks for sharing two of your own experiences!
regardless of what other's "think"..

But if they're wrong, they're mocking "friends of God"
And if they're right, they're mocking mistaken "friends of God"
Lose lose situation.
Gen 12:3

Thanks for the blessing sunlover1. Kindness is rare on Christian forums.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Back to the original post:

The weekend before 911 in 2001, I read a prophecy by Clay Sikes which went:

"As I finished this writing, the Holy Spirit spoke to me prophetically:

AWAKEN! AWAKEN! NOT ONLY TO THE SPHERE, BUT ALSO TO THE FACT THAT I HAVE GIVEN YOU SPIRITUAL AUTHORITY AND PURPOSE. AWAKEN EARLY TO UNDERSTAND THE SPIRITUAL AUTHORITY I HAVE GIVEN AND THE SPHERES OF ITS APPLICATION. I MAY SPEAK BUT A SINGLE WORD FOR YOU TO KNOW WHERE YOU HAVE BEEN GIVEN POWER TO PRAY AND SPEAK MY WORD."
​

Early on the pre 911 Sunday morning, I accidentally woke early. I sat up in bed and wondered if God was going to apply this message to me, so I asked God where was my sphere of spiritual authority. Almost instantly God spoke to my mind, one word repeatedly: "Washington, Washington, Washington ..."

I was very confident that God directly spoke to me about Washington D.C. However, since I live on the other side of the world, I put aside grand thoughts of Billy Graham style ministry and I decided to just pray for Washington every night. I told my Sunday Bible class about that experience the same day.

Just a day or two later were the terror attacks on 911 and I understood better the need to pray for Washington.

Months later, I wrote to an African-American Christian blogger from Washington how I could best intercede for her city. She said that I should pray for the black men to return to their families and the black women to invest in their children. So, every night I pray for those things and for Black churches to rise up for God.

This is one of the benefits of hearing the voice of God: God can tell me what to pray for in specific ways that the Bible cannot address.

You've turned a horrific attack on the US into a story about yourself. I see this over and over again with this type of thing. You flippantly interject yourself into something, but if read with open eyes, your "word" was meaningless in this instance. It was fruitless.

If you had some actual role in anything positive happening, that would be worth writing about, but what good for anyone did your "experience" bring? None.

Did you call the pentagon and warn them of an attack, saving 3,000 lives? No. Your story has no point other than self-promotion.

The emperor has no clothes. . .

 

[swordsman1]

This is what R.T Kendall, a prominent Charismatic teacher, said about those who are fond of telling "God told me" stories:

"One of the hardest habits for some of us to break is saying, "God told me this" or "Here is what the Lord showed me." Is this truly a bad habit? Yes. In fact, I believe it's one of the worst claims perpetrated in churches today, despite being a clear violation of the third commandment: "You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain" (Ex. 20:7).

How do we misuse God's name when we claim He told us something? With our intent. Most often we mention Him for one reason: to elevate our own credibility. It is not His name we are thinking of, it is our reputation. Adding the weight of God's name to our words gives us authority and respectability. But the truth is, we're not thinking of God's name and glory when we do this—we're thinking of our own.

Most of us have made this mistake at one time or another, yet it happens frequently among those who have a prophetic gift or aspire to intimacy with God. I am disappointed when respected prophetic figures say, "The Lord told me ..." because it cheapens their stature. When they say this, we have no choice but to listen. After all, if God is speaking through them, we'd better give heed! Who among us doesn't want to hear God's voice?

Yet consider this: If I am in a postcanonical age and God has really told me something, why, then, must I bring His name into it? Would it not be just as true if I left His name out? My reason for claiming His authority is to elevate my own—in your eyes. Otherwise, I fear you would not listen to me.

There is no sign in northwest Arizona that says, "You are now looking at the Grand Canyon." Such a sign would be silly. It would cheapen the entire aura. When you see this remarkable formation, you know what it is. There are no substitutes or counterfeits when it comes to the Grand Canyon.

Likewise, if I truly have a word from the Lord, I can say it without mentioning His holy name. It will speak for itself. And if people don't recognize my authenticity because I don't include God's name, that is not my problem.

As for the accuracy of those who claim, "The Lord told me this," that's another story. Millions of people have made this allegation through the ages, yet I imagine the angels' reaction is often the same: "Really?" How many times have they heard God's name included in "words" that never originated from Him in the first place?

We quote people when we speak to give our own words a higher standing, a greater level of underlying truthfulness. That is certainly why I quote Scripture. In the same way, if I quote St. Augustine or John Wesley, it is to make you feel that I have a greater measure of reliability on my side. But no one likes a name-dropper. They're not a popular type. If I told you I know Oral Roberts or Billy Graham or the pope, who would I be trying to make look good? Not them.

It's no different with God. When we drop His name in our conversations, writings or sermons, we have in that moment violated a trust that must make the angels blush. In our fear that no one will believe us, we name-drop God."

http://ministrytodaymag.com/evangelical-essentials/15790-god-told-me-really

 

[Peter J Barban]

This is what R.T Kendall, a prominent Charismatic teacher, said about those who are fond of telling "God told me" stories:

"One of the hardest habits for some of us to break is saying, "God told me this" or "Here is what the Lord showed me." Is this truly a bad habit? Yes. In fact, I believe it's one of the worst claims perpetrated in churches today, despite being a clear violation of the third commandment: "You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain" (Ex. 20:7).

How do we misuse God's name when we claim He told us something? With our intent. Most often we mention Him for one reason: to elevate our own credibility. It is not His name we are thinking of, it is our reputation. Adding the weight of God's name to our words gives us authority and respectability. But the truth is, we're not thinking of God's name and glory when we do this—we're thinking of our own.

Most of us have made this mistake at one time or another, yet it happens frequently among those who have a prophetic gift or aspire to intimacy with God. I am disappointed when respected prophetic figures say, "The Lord told me ..." because it cheapens their stature. When they say this, we have no choice but to listen. After all, if God is speaking through them, we'd better give heed! Who among us doesn't want to hear God's voice?

Yet consider this: If I am in a postcanonical age and God has really told me something, why, then, must I bring His name into it? Would it not be just as true if I left His name out? My reason for claiming His authority is to elevate my own—in your eyes. Otherwise, I fear you would not listen to me.

There is no sign in northwest Arizona that says, "You are now looking at the Grand Canyon." Such a sign would be silly. It would cheapen the entire aura. When you see this remarkable formation, you know what it is. There are no substitutes or counterfeits when it comes to the Grand Canyon.

Likewise, if I truly have a word from the Lord, I can say it without mentioning His holy name. It will speak for itself. And if people don't recognize my authenticity because I don't include God's name, that is not my problem.

As for the accuracy of those who claim, "The Lord told me this," that's another story. Millions of people have made this allegation through the ages, yet I imagine the angels' reaction is often the same: "Really?" How many times have they heard God's name included in "words" that never originated from Him in the first place?

We quote people when we speak to give our own words a higher standing, a greater level of underlying truthfulness. That is certainly why I quote Scripture. In the same way, if I quote St. Augustine or John Wesley, it is to make you feel that I have a greater measure of reliability on my side. But no one likes a name-dropper. They're not a popular type. If I told you I know Oral Roberts or Billy Graham or the pope, who would I be trying to make look good? Not them.

It's no different with God. When we drop His name in our conversations, writings or sermons, we have in that moment violated a trust that must make the angels blush. In our fear that no one will believe us, we name-drop God."

http://ministrytodaymag.com/evangelical-essentials/15790-god-told-me-really

Its a good thing that I'm a mature Christian and don't have the problems that you are hinting at.

Besides, this message is only helpful if we indeed do hear from God. Have you now come over to my side?

 

[jimmyjimmy]

How do we misuse God's name when we claim He told us something? With our intent. Most often we mention Him for one reason: to elevate our own credibility. It is not His name we are thinking of, it is our reputation. Adding the weight of God's name to our words gives us authority and respectability. But the truth is, we're not thinking of God's name and glory when we do this—we're thinking of our own.

I agree with you completely. This "God told me" stuff is seeking glory for ourselves rather than God. I would also bet that many people do it without thinking. It's simply a fleshy thing to do.

The apostles could have told amazing stories of experience that actually had with Jesus, but their teaching does not reveal such war stories.

 

[TillICollapse]

You've turned a horrific attack on the US into a story about yourself. I see this over and over again with this type of thing. You flippantly interject yourself into something, but if read with open eyes, your "word" was meaningless in this instance. It was fruitless.

If you had some actual role in anything positive happening, that would be worth writing about, but what good for anyone did your "experience" bring? None.

Did you call the pentagon and warn them of an attack, saving 3,000 lives? No. Your story has no point other than self-promotion.

The emperor has no clothes. . .

I very much like your response here.

 

[TillICollapse]

I agree with you completely. This "God told me" stuff is seeking glory for ourselves rather than God. I would also bet that many people do it without thinking. It's simply a fleshy thing to do.

The apostles could have told amazing stories of experience that actually had with Jesus, but their teaching does not reveal such war stories.

In my opinion, the ability or inability of God to interfere in the lives of humans in such a way, that tragedy can be thwarted, suffering can be alleviated, loss can be reversed, etc ... is to be taken seriously, and treated with respect. The prayers of people in times of trouble, seeking God or "anyone out there" to help them ... is sometimes a last resort, sometimes a first resort, but regardless, they are not often prayers given in jest or flippantly. In such times as hunger, need, pain, fear, etc ... "God please help me" is a common desire, hope, and thought, of the heart and mind and perhaps soul.

Thus, for certain types of individuals to flaunt their authority or the amazing things they believe God has done for them, in front of those who are praying for the same things and still in need, yet, seemingly NOT seeing their prayers answered ... I would think that behavior such as that, would often be cruel and, imo, doing a disservice to God and His choices, Himself.

If a starving person in front of me, is begging God-or-anyone-who-will-listen for food, and I am there, healthy and snacking, claiming how great God is for providing my snack, while he is starving ... and I do nothing to help him, but continue to proclaim the good things done for me ... that seems unloving and cruel. IMO, one reason we do not see "war stories" by the Apostles and others for the sake of simply telling them, is for that very reason: they were serving others, not just themselves.

HOWEVER ... people still enjoy being free to discuss things with their peers. They still desire to speak freely about what is happening to them, good or bad, better or worse ... despite the world around them. People are starving all over the world, yet here we are typing on computers, no doubt having food and clean water within reach. So ... if someone believes God is speaking to them about world wide horrors, that they may can do nothing about ... or God is telling them where their lost car keys are, while people are suffering tragedy at the exact same time ... with whom will they be able to openly share such experiences and explore them ? Would it not be among peers ... those who also believe ?

"God told me" stuff isn't always seeking glory for oneself, simply because the experiences are being told. Context plays a key. Sometimes, I believe it can be cruel and unloving and disrespectful. However, other times, it's also just sharing what is happening in one's life with others who are going through similar things, whether you fully understand it or not. A forum that is full of people claiming to believe in God, many of which claim God still communicates with them and has His hand in the lives of humans today ... seems to be an ideal place for "God told me" types to say what is on their mind and share their experience.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

In my opinion, the ability or inability of God to interfere in the lives of humans in such a way, that tragedy can be thwarted, suffering can be alleviated, loss can be reversed, etc ... is to be taken seriously, and treated with respect. The prayers of people in times of trouble, seeking God or "anyone out there" to help them ... is sometimes a last resort, sometimes a first resort, but regardless, they are not often prayers given in jest or flippantly. In such times as hunger, need, pain, fear, etc ... "God please help me" is a common desire, hope, and thought, of the heart and mind and perhaps soul.

Thus, for certain types of individuals to flaunt their authority or the amazing things they believe God has done for them, in front of those who are praying for the same things and still in need, yet, seemingly NOT seeing their prayers answered ... I would think that behavior such as that, would often be cruel and, imo, doing a disservice to God and His choices, Himself.

If a starving person in front of me, is begging God-or-anyone-who-will-listen for food, and I am there, healthy and snacking, claiming how great God is for providing my snack, while he is starving ... and I do nothing to help him, but continue to proclaim the good things done for me ... that seems unloving and cruel. IMO, one reason we do not see "war stories" by the Apostles and others for the sake of simply telling them, is for that very reason: they were serving others, not just themselves.

HOWEVER ... people still enjoy being free to discuss things with their peers. They still desire to speak freely about what is happening to them, good or bad, better or worse ... despite the world around them. People are starving all over the world, yet here we are typing on computers, no doubt having food and clean water within reach. So ... if someone believes God is speaking to them about world wide horrors, that they may can do nothing about ... or God is telling them where their lost car keys are, while people are suffering tragedy at the exact same time ... with whom will they be able to openly share such experiences and explore them ? Would it not be among peers ... those who also believe ?

"God told me" stuff isn't always seeking glory for oneself, simply because the experiences are being told. Context plays a key. Sometimes, I believe it can be cruel and unloving and disrespectful. However, other times, it's also just sharing what is happening in one's life with others who are going through similar things, whether you fully understand it or not. A forum that is full of people claiming to believe in God, many of which claim God still communicates with them and has His hand in the lives of humans today ... seems to be an ideal place for "God told me" types to say what is on their mind and share their experience.

Context is everything. In this thread we are, at least I am, looking at God speaking directly, and outside of scripture. That's the intended topic. "Extra-biblical relation" is what we are discussing.

I'm not sure if you've read through the thread, but it might be helpful, speaking of context. . .

 

[TillICollapse]

Context is everything. In this thread we are, at least I am, looking at God speaking directly, and outside of scripture. That's the intended topic. "Extra-biblical relation" is what we are discussing.

I'm not sure if you've read through the thread, but it might be helpful, speaking of context. . .

I've read a bit of it, as I commented earlier within it, yes I'm familiar with the context of the thread. I was responding to your comment.

 

[D2wing]

Quite the reverse. Apart from the constant control of the scriptures, we are engulfed in a quagmire of subjectivity. And the false teachers are given free reign. They are the very ones claiming to have these personal revelations. People like Kenneth Copeland and Benny Hinn claim God speaks to them privately all the time, but the revelations and prophecies they quote are heretical and false. But because they say "The Lord told me..." people blindly believe them and thousands are led astray. They disguise themselves as angels of light by using pious words, frequently quoting the scriptures (often twisting them), and having fruitful and successful ministries, but inside they are ravenous wolves, not only deceiving the sheep with false teachings but heaping up for themselves great wealth from donations to their ministries. (Copeland lives in a huge mansion with his own airport next door and a fleet of private jets).

We do have apostles and prophets to challenge error. Their words are recorded for us in scripture, which is also described as the "voice" of God by God himself. Inner feelings are never taught as being the means God speaks to us. It is an unbiblical idea justified by nothing more than anecdotal stories and experiences.

1 Cor 4:6 "learn from us the meaning of the saying "Do not go beyond what is written."​

The "God told me" mysticism of today has caused untold damage to the body of Christ. Anyone can claim to be speaking God’s revelation and almost anything can be passed off as divinely revealed truth. It is wide open to abuse. Someone can say "The Lord has told me we need a new pastor", and nobody can dare argue against them. To do so would be to argue against the Lord. It is a recipe for chaos and confusion. But God is not the author of confusion.

We don't need new private revelations because we are told that scripture is sufficient for us to be "thoroughly equipped for every good work".

So you are the judge of men like Kenneth Copeland, Benny Hinn, Pat Robinson also openly practices gifts of the Spirit so I suppose you condemn him and others. You do know that there have been many accounts of people being raised from the dead by prayer. I was present at one such event. Thousands of us do hear directly from God. He said he would tell us in the night what to say. And yes thousands of us have received the baptism of the Holy Spirit the same the examples that have been shown you before in scripture. It is you that deny the Scripture that He will be worshipped in Spirit and Truth. God's arm is not shortened nor has he changed. I for one speak in tongues, have imparted spiritual gifts to others, and have often spoke with God. Are you to say that the Bible is wrong, that we who hold to the promises of God are evil doers as you accuse great men of God. Men who have demonstrated powers to heal and do miracles. As Paul said, He came in demonstration of power, not in swelling words.
Well God has a word for you. He told me he would give you space to repent.

 

[Arsenios]

You've turned a horrific attack on the US into a story about yourself.
I see this over and over again with this type of thing.
You flippantly interject yourself into something,

For someone who ASKS FOR personal accounts,
And then when he gets one...
Gives this kind of sordid attack-response...
You are showing heartless hard-heartedness...

but if read with open eyes,
your "word" was meaningless in this instance.
It was fruitless.

He prayed for Washington...

Damage there was relatively light...

Your story has no point other than self-promotion.

I have heard better hearted words from braying donkeys...

Arsenios

 

[jimmyjimmy]

For someone who ASKS FOR personal accounts,
And then when he gets one...
Gives this kind of sordid attack-response...
You are showing heartless hard-heartedness...

I didn't ask for person accounts, and if anyone is heartless, it's not me. Telling the truth takes a lot of heart.

He prayed for Washington...

Damage there was relatively light...

P L E A S E don't insult my intelligence. That's something I can not tolerate. If you want to debate anything with some degree of intellectual honesty, I am happy to reply, but, other than that I won't.

People had a 747 fly into them and the ones that weren't killed by that were burned alive in a fiery jet-fuel bath. If they weren't that fortunate, they died slowly inhaling scorching toxic smoke. I'm sure that they and their families are so happy that your friend got a "word" and saved the day.

I have heard better hearted words from braying donkeys...

Now donkeys are speaking to you. Where does it end?

 

[TillICollapse]

Now donkeys are speaking to you. Where does it end?

This is just waiting to have a punchline attached to it.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

This is just waiting to have a punchline attached to it.

It was a good set up. You take it.