.

[Albion]

So you are claiming the disciples and Christ and the followers of Christ DID NOT CONSTITUTE THE CHURCH at the time the incident in Luke 9:49-50 took place ??? ARE YOU SERIOUS ? Or are you just deliberately being OBTUSE ?!

Hold on there. The question of the thread is about formal church membership as we usually understand that--being on the rolls of a local institution. You are thinking of the "invisible church" which includes all believers.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

So you are claiming the disciples and Christ and the followers of Christ DID NOT CONSTITUTE THE CHURCH at the time the incident in Luke 9:49-50 took place ??? ARE YOU SERIOUS ? Or are you just deliberately being OBTUSE ?!

I'm using my brain and proper exegesis to determine that the text you put forth has nothing to do with the subject at hand.

 

[sunlover1]

"And John answered and said, Master we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and we forbade him, because he followeth not with us". "And Jesus said to him, FORBID HIM NOT, for he that is not against us, IS FOR US" (Luke 9:49-50, KJV).

I believe this story answers the question you pose in this thread. "Is Church Optional" ??? In this case, a man who was apparently filled with the Spirit of God and a believer in Christ (he was after all casting out demons in the name of Jesus, which is what brought him to the attention of Christ's followers), nevertheless flat out refused to join the disciples of Christ and the Church. Was he condemned by Jesus for having sinned ? Not in the least. So who are you to judge me as a non-clerical, non-denominational Christian as not being "right" with the Gospel of Jesus Christ and the Will of God ???

Who are you to decide whom God shall choose, or in what manner a man may rightfully serve God ?! Does a clay pot argue with it's creator, (Isaiah 45:9) ??? There are more than a dozen pages in this thread, containing dozens of posts claiming a Christian must be a member of the Church in order to be right with the Gospel of Christ and the Will of God.

It is not me, who ignores the Gospel of Christ and the Will of God... but it is you my friends. As you judge, so shall you be judged.

Hold on there. The question of the thread is about formal church membership as we usually understand that--being on the rolls of a local institution. You are thinking of the "invisible church" which includes all believers.

He does raise a great point though and it really does relate to a lot of the other posts.
There's been some judging in this thread. And while I agree that Church is VERY important, for the "equipping" of the saints, it's still your choice to go or not to go.
Some churches are very wicked places to be. Some are teaching doctrines of men some teaching doctrines of devils.. Main thing we need to do is let GOD tell us where we need to be, every single day. JUST my opinion
God says don't forsake assembling. But assembling can be bad if you're being assembled with evil. And being assembled with like minded individuals in a home church or a meeting of great men of God or call it what you will, God just wants to be in our midst and move in lives.
Some denominations have tried to make it this day or that day or this way or that way or this place or that place, when all He said was, assemble.

 

[Albion]

He does raise a great point though and it really does relate to a lot of the other posts.
There's been some judging in this thread. And while I agree that Church is VERY important, for the "equipping" of the saints, it's still your choice to go or not to go.
Some churches are very wicked places to be. Some are teaching doctrines of men some teaching doctrines of devils.. Main thing we need to do is let GOD tell us where we need to be, every single day. JUST my opinion ue
God says don't forsake assembling. But assembling can be bad if you're being assembled with evil. And being assembled with like minded individuals in a home church or a meeting of great men of God or call it what you will, God just wants to be in our midst and move in lives.
Some denominations have tried to make it this day or that day or this way or that way or this place or that place, when all He said was, assemble.

I don't see a problem here. The question asked if we are obligated to belong to some assembly. It didn't ask if we are obligated to belong to just any of them. If one's congregation has been perverted and is teaching doctrines of devils...then choose another one.

 

[sunlover1]

I don't see a problem here. The question asked if we are obligated to belong to some assembly. It didn't ask if we are obligated to belong to just any of them. If one's congregation has been perverted and is teaching doctrines of devils...then choose another one.

I understand that, but unfortunately, .. there are entire denominations that are teaching doctrines of devils and doctrines of men.. so i hear.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

The sad state of affairs in the world, and also fully present in the church as well, is that you can't disagree with someone without being accused of being judgmental. It's not a clever deflection, yet it seems to work.

 

[sunlover1]

The sad state of affairs in the world, and also fully present in the church as well, is that you can't disagree with someone without being accused of being judgmental. It's a very clever deflection.

Indeed.
This is GT, lot's of clever deflections! LOL
Actually, it's sad because we have a lot of deceitful posters...
At least that's what "clever deflections" indicate to me.

We pray for them, and try not to do the same.

 

[Albion]

I understand that, but unfortunately, .. there are entire denominations that are teaching doctrines of devils and doctrines of men.. so i hear.

Well, I can't deny that. But still, I would think that so long as there are ones that are not in that state, and a concerned person is able to find one of them, talk about just giving it up altogether and doing without "church" doesn't add up.

 

[stephen583]

But assembling can be bad if you're being assembled with evil.

This is exactly the point. What are you assembling with ? The warnings of the Bible say to "Come Out of Babylon" ! (Jer.51:45, Rev.18:4). Instead, organized religion creates the "ecumenical" movement, or religious "unity movement" in which non-Christian religions like Judaism, Buddhism, Islam and the Bahai faith are recognized as being "equal" to Christianity. In effect, rendering the belief in Jesus Christ as the Son of God, as being totally "irrelevant". If this is not the spirit of antichrist, then was is ?!

I'm afraid "thatbrian", I'm not the one in peril. You and everyone else who belongs to a church that supports ecumenism, has turned up a one way street, headed in the wrong direction. Good luck with that one. I'd rather be a "non-clerical" Christian, than "ostensibly" call myself one.

How's that for using my brain and a proper application of exegesis there buddy ?!

 

[Albion]

It's a fundamental cop out to argue that all Christian churches are evil because of some stereotype. I'd much rather have a person choose not to belong to (or even attend) a congregation's worship services because of a Scriptural admonition than to have the argument be "they're all bad so I am excused" when there are, in fact, plenty of congregations and denominations that don't fit the convenient stereotype.

 

[stephen583]

Right now real Christians are "assembling" for the Rapture. Other (fake) Christians are being assembled by the False Prophet and Antichrist and will either perish during the Second Half of tribulations, or be led to their deaths at the Battle of Armageddon. Sadly the latter group appears to be the "majority" of Christians today. Maybe that will change though, the Scripture does say, Elijah must first come, and restore what has been lost. All we can do is pray.

 

[Albion]

Right now real Christians are "assembling" for the Rapture. Other (fake) Christians are being assembled by the False Prophet and Antichrist and will either perish during the Second Half of tribulations, or be led to their deaths at the Battle of Armageddon. Sadly the latter group appears to be the "majority" of Christians today. Maybe that will change though, the Scripture does say, Elijah must first come, and restore what has been lost. All we can do is pray.

I keep wondering what you'll think as you lie on your deathbed, the rapture not having occurred. Dismay? Disbelief? After all, it's not rejection of the idea that there will be a rapture to recognize that 1) we do not know the hour and 2) most of us will not live to see the rapture.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

This is exactly the point. What are you assembling with ? The warnings of the Bible say to "Come Out of Babylon" ! (Jer.51:45, Rev.18:4). Instead, organized religion creates the "ecumenical" movement, or religious "unity movement" in which non-Christian religions like Judaism, Buddhism, Islam and the Bahai faith are recognized as being "equal" to Christianity. In effect, rendering the belief in Jesus Christ as the Son of God, as being totally "irrelevant". If this is not the spirit of antichrist, then was is ?!

I'm afraid "thatbrian", I'm not the one in peril. You and everyone else who belongs to a church that supports ecumenism, has turned up a one way street, headed in the wrong direction. Good luck with that one. I'd rather be a "non-clerical" Christian, than "ostensibly" call myself one.

How's that for using my brain and a proper application of exegesis there buddy ?!

You aren't firing on all cylinders. I don't belong to an ecumenical group of any kind.

 

[Rick Otto]

This is exactly the point. What are you assembling with ? The warnings of the Bible say to "Come Out of Babylon" ! (Jer.51:45, Rev.18:4). Instead, organized religion creates the "ecumenical" movement, or religious "unity movement" in which non-Christian religions like Judaism, Buddhism, Islam and the Bahai faith are recognized as being "equal" to Christianity. In effect, rendering the belief in Jesus Christ as the Son of God, as being totally "irrelevant". If this is not the spirit of antichrist, then was is ?!

I'm afraid "thatbrian", I'm not the one in peril. You and everyone else who belongs to a church that supports ecumenism, has turned up a one way street, headed in the wrong direction. Good luck with that one. I'd rather be a "non-clerical" Christian, than "ostensibly" call myself one.

How's that for using my brain and a proper application of exegesis there buddy ?!

I agree with you basically, a lot more than with brian, but I think you are being too categorical and harsh in these remarks.

 

[Gwen-is-new!]

The sad state of affairs in the world, and also fully present in the church as well, is that you can't disagree with someone without being accused of being judgmental. It's not a clever deflection, yet it seems to work.

Judgmental and hateful. It IS clever because sometimes I just stay quiet because honestly I'm not in the mood to be called those things.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Judgmental and hateful. It IS clever because sometimes I just stay quiet because honestly I'm not in the mood to be called those things.

It does work. It silences people. Even I have given in because I just don't want the trouble it brings, but I still don't think it's clever, though. It's nothing less than bullying.

 

[sunlover1]

Well, I can't deny that. But still, I would think that so long as there are ones that are not in that state, and a concerned person is able to find one of them, talk about just giving it up altogether and doing without "church" doesn't add up.

I understand where you're coming from Albion. I was considering this earlier, while having a "conversation" with the Father, and began weeping because.. He wants so badly for us to have unity. SO much more than "BE AT CHURCH ON SUNDAYS!!" (to be said with a deep furrowed brow and using your best "Awnold" voice. LOL)
We need to have more love and unity, We need unity, we need "oneness". Jesus literally died for us, and then His prayer, GOD"s prayer, wow!!! was, not that we get to church and sing, not that we have big offerings, not that we learn Greek,, but that we:
I am not asking on behalf of them alone, but also on behalf of those who will believe in Me through their message, 21that all of them may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I am inYou. May they also be in Us, so that the worldmay believe that You sent Me. 22I have given them the glory You gave Me, so that they may be one as We are one—…

This should break our hearts, because it must break His.
And i think that if we had more of this oneness,
we'd have more interest in assembling and... BEING one.
But for immature Christians and baby Christians, imo we
should focus on love and grace and let God work His amazing
convicting work in our hearts.
He surely is able to do amazing things.

Sorry for rambling, it's been one of those days.

 

[sunlover1]

It does work. It silences people. Even I have given in because I just don't want the trouble it brings, but I still don't think it's clever, though. It's nothing less than bullying.

I have been accused of many things (as you know )
But we need to persevere.
Truth of Scripture will bring trouble, indeed.
God warned us of this:

And these are the ones along the path,
where the word is sown: when they hear,
Satan immediately comes and takes away
the word that is sown in them.

 

[stephen583]

You aren't firing on all cylinders. I don't belong to an ecumenical group of any kind.

If you belong to an organized church, that is a member of the World Council of Churches.. you support the "Ecumenical Movement... PERIOD ! Claiming otherwise is like saying you are RCC, but you don't support Marianism. That's total nonsense. You can't be one, without being the other.

 

[stephen583]

Disbelief? After all, it's not rejection of the idea that there will be a rapture to recognize that 1) we do not know the hour and 2) most of us will not live to see the rapture.

I already know I will not be here on earth to see the general resurrection and rapture at the Second Coming, but I will see it, as I will appear in the clouds alongside Jesus Christ at his coming.

(1). God certainly knows the "hour". The Scripture says emphatically God shall do nothing in secret without revealing it to his servants, (Amos 3:7). So when you say "no one knows the hour".. understand you are only speaking for yourself... not for God and not for those who serve him.

(2). As for your second point, I guarantee you although I will have already departed from this earth, I will most certainly be ALIVE and LIVING at the time the Rapture occurs, because the second death will have no power over me.