70th Week - It Is Still Pending

[mkgal1]

I am still puzzled as to why people here are so insistent that the 70th week was over in the 1st century, despite their inability to prove it.

I'm equally puzzled as to why Christians would deny -so vehemently- that God fulfilled what He promised (in the TIME He promised) and instead break off the key part of the prophecy and have it floating off somewhere in the future (and even attribute that part -meant for confirmation of Christ's work- to an anti-christ.....stealing away the message of His power and sovereinty).

This debate has gone on since the idea of a gap was introduced (by Darby)...so I doubt this thread will "prove" much as far as that's concerned (and plenty more people deny the significance of Jesus' death on the cross in general). It just surprises me to see that denial also includes self-professing christians as well.

 

[mkgal1]

According to the angel, THE SEVENTY "WEEKS" ARE END-TIME.

Furthermore, the seventy "weeks" ARE FULFILLED.

Right....they ARE fulfilled - the seventy weeks ARE "end time" (the end of ancient Jerusalem/Sinai covenant is in the past - what was prophesied has been fulfilled).

Now all we have to do is discover what the literal Hebrew text says, what the "Books" say, and what History says.

That's already been done - and brought up in this very thread.

 

[mkgal1]

You have no clue of who I am.

What's THAT supposed to mean?

I posted proof of the 70th week being at the end of the age.

You posted your interpretation (not "proof").

Just because your argument convinces you of something doesn't make it truth or reality.

However.....I don't disagree that the 70th week is the "end of the age". It WAS the end of the Jewish temple age and the end of the age of the Sinai covenant.

 

[DaDad]

... the seventy weeks ARE ... the end of ancient Jerusalem/Sinai covenant ...

Yep, and Jesus invented modern vehicular transportation, speed trains, air travel, space travel, and computer technology, all during the ~end of the Jerusalem/Sinai Covenant~, exactly as the angel specified:

Daniel 12:4 But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, until the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.”​

Great call,
DaDad

 

[DavidPT]

God reveals to His church ---- not to lone rangers -- and just as it's been said throughout this thread, for 1800 or so years it was only believed that Daniel's prophecy of the 70 weeks was fulfilled (completely).

What the ECF understood and taught is important (to me, at least) - where do you think the scriptures even came from in the first place?

Some of these ECFs were Premils, such as Justin Martyr. So why aren't you Premil then if what the ECFs understood and taught is important to you?

 

[mkgal1]

Yep, and Jesus invented modern vehicular transportation, speed trains, air travel, space travel, and computer technology, all during the ~end of the Jerusalem/Sinai Covenant~, exactly as the angel specified:

Daniel 12:4 But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, until the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.”​

Great call,
DaDad

I have no idea what point you're trying to make here.

 

[mkgal1]

Some of these ECFs were Premils, such as Justin Martyr. So why aren't you Premil then if what the ECFs understood and taught is important to you?

What's important to me are the basics -and where they agreed (as far as I know....the ECF, in general, didn't teach futurism).

The fact that they didn't agree on everything demonstrates that "biblical proof" is still largely a matter of interpretation (and is dependent upon the Holy Spirit).

 

[DaDad]

... the seventy weeks ARE ... the end of ancient Jerusalem/Sinai covenant ...

Yep, and Jesus invented modern vehicular transportation, speed trains, air travel, space travel, and computer technology, all during the ~end of the Jerusalem/Sinai Covenant~, exactly as the angel specified:

Daniel 12:4 But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, until the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.”​

I have no idea what point you're trying to make here.

Yeah, I didn't think you'd read the angelic instructions. That's ok, it's a common problem. And don't worry about it. I'm quite confident that it's nothing to be concerned about.

DaDad

 

[mkgal1]

Yeah, I didn't think you'd read the angelic instructions.

I have read them....but that still doesn't make any sense (to me, anyway) of your post.

 

[DavidPT]

Yeah, I didn't think you'd read the angelic instructions. That's ok, it's a common problem. And don't worry about it. I'm quite confident that it's nothing to be concerned about.

DaDad

Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

This applies to the following for one.

Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.


Where this verse is meaning the following.

Daniel 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

And where this verse is meaning the following.

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


Yet it seems to me that you are arguing that the 70th week has already been fulfilled? How do you figure that if the words in Daniel 9:27 are of the words that are to be shut up, even to the time of the end?

 

[DaDad]

I have read them....but that still doesn't make any sense (to me, anyway) of your post.

Perfect. You're a fine example of all those people who go to church. I hope it's enough to get you "in".
DaDad

 

[keras]

3 1/2 years+ time from Calvary to Paul's conversion+ 3 years= ???

THIS is proof of the 70th 'week' having been fulfilled? What an incredible assertion!

The plain facts are: the last seven years of this age, culminating with the glorious Return of Jesus, are well prophesied in Daniel and Revelation, with all the many things to happen in that time. Mostly during the last 3 1/2 years, which will be the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls of the Great Tribulation.
This is obviously referred to in Daniel 9:27b

 

[DavidPT]

THIS is proof of the 70th 'week' having been fulfilled? What an incredible assertion!

The plain facts are: the last seven years of this age, culminating with the glorious Return of Jesus, are well prophesied in Daniel and Revelation, with all the many things to happen in that time. Mostly during the last 3 1/2 years, which will be the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls of the Great Tribulation.
This is obviously referred to in Daniel 9:27b

There are two 3.5 periods in the book of Revelation, like you have already pointed out. Why are they not proving what they allege, via those passages in Revelation? Which one of those 3.5 year periods in Revelation matches "3 1/2 years+ time from Calvary to Paul's conversion+ 3 years"?

 

[DaDad]

Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
... it seems to me that you are arguing that the 70th week has already been fulfilled? How do you figure that if the words in Daniel 9:27 are of the words that are to be shut up, even to the time of the end?

ALL the prophecies of Daniel are "shut up and sealed" until the era approximate to 1948. If you want to DISOBEY Scripture, then by all means PLEASE apply any or all prophecies to ancient events, and then argue with others why YOUR "version" has fewer failures than THEIRS.

And as always, I'm always happy to go through the 9th Chapter, or ANY CHAPTER in Daniel and explain what the literal text provides and what History accounts. But let me warn you, the TRUTH of these prophecies are NOT what you'll read from the commentators.

Thanks,
DaDad

 

[BABerean2]

The plain facts are: the last seven years of this age, culminating with the glorious Return of Jesus, are well prophesied in Daniel and Revelation, with all the many things to happen in that time.

The only way you can get a 7 year tribulation period is by ignoring the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible, and "the time of the judgment of the dead" in Revelation 11:15-18.

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.


Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

.

 

[BABerean2]

And as always, I'm always happy to go through the 9th Chapter, or ANY CHAPTER in Daniel and explain what the literal text provides and what History accounts. But let me warn you, the TRUTH of these prophecies are NOT what you'll read from the commentators.

We are looking forward to having you give us the "DaDad translation" of Daniel chapter 9.

Bring it out here and let us take a look at it...

.

 

[DaDad]

... Daniel chapter 9.

Did you find the distinctly different "gender" for the word "weeks", which is found ONLY in DANIEL CHAPTER 9 and NO WHERE ELSE IN THE ENTIRE O.T.?

“... as Young points out, the word ‘sevens’ is in the masculine plural instead of the usual feminine plural. No clear explanation is given except that Young feels ‘it was for the deliberate purpose of calling attention to the fact that the word “sevens” is employed in an unusual sense.’”


“...Young finally concludes after some discussion that Keil and Kliefoth are correct when they hold that the word ‘sevens’ does not necessarily mean year-weeks, but an intentionally indefinite designation of a period of time measured by the number seven, which chronological duration must be determined on other grounds.”

John Wolvoord, Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation, Moody Press, Chicago, 1971, p. 217-218​

It's analogous to a concise ~cool~ glass of water, which is a thermally depressed gradient; versus an inconcise ~cool~ car, which is NOT a thermally depressed gradient.

• So who the individual when asked to go for a ride in the inconcise ~cool~ car would grab a hat, coat, and gloves?!?
• And who is the individual who would interpret the seventy inconcise "weeks" as 490 years?!?

... oh yeah, I forgot the illustrious "experts" who post on Christian Forums. Anyone need a pair of winter galoshes?

DaDad

 

[jgr]

As Scripture specifies, when we have expedient travel (70 mph by automobile or 500 by airline), and access to instant knowledge (computers, with internet & youtube repair videos), then WE'RE IN THE LAST DAYS.

Did you find the distinctly different "gender" for the word "weeks", which is found ONLY in DANIEL CHAPTER 9 and NO WHERE ELSE IN THE ENTIRE O.T.?

“... as Young points out, the word ‘sevens’ is in the masculine plural instead of the usual feminine plural. No clear explanation is given except that Young feels ‘it was for the deliberate purpose of calling attention to the fact that the word “sevens” is employed in an unusual sense.’”

Try Daniel 10:2-3, where the weeks are also masculine plural.

Young/Keil/Kliefoth/Walvoord have certainly made a mess.

 

[BABerean2]

“...Young finally concludes after some discussion that Keil and Kliefoth are correct when they hold that the word ‘sevens’ does not necessarily mean year-weeks, but an intentionally indefinite designation of a period of time measured by the number seven, which chronological duration must be determined on other grounds.”

John Wolvoord, Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation, Moody Press, Chicago, 1971, p. 217-218

We were waiting for the DaDad interpretation and you quoted Young, Keil, Kliefoth, via John Walvoord.

It appears that this interpretation muddies the waters to the degree that it could mean just about anything, unless you can provide the "other grounds" needed for the interpretation.

.

 

[DaDad]

... it could mean just about anything ...

It means you don't want to know the TRUTH about Scripture because your false doctrines don't comply with GOD's Word.

You've made your choice. Good Job.

DaDad