67% - Non-Churchgoers Vote Democratic

[USincognito]

While they're not as pervasive as one might think there are a lot of atheists who are Libertarians. Two high-profile ones I can think of right now are Michael Shermer and Penn Jilette.

Unfortunately I've seen some Libertarians become such "true believers" in their political ideals they develop an almost fundamentalist zeal. For them the market is always right and all things good are determined by the market. Maybe they don't see it themselves, but in my opinion they have traded a religious belief for a political religion.

 

[KomissarSteve]

While they're not as pervasive as one might think there are a lot of atheists who are Libertarians. Two high-profile ones I can think of right now are Michael Shermer and Penn Jilette.

Unfortunately I've seen some Libertarians become such "true believers" in their political ideals they develop an almost fundamentalist zeal. For them the market is always right and all things good are determined by the market. Maybe they don't see it themselves, but in my opinion they have traded a religious belief for a political religion.

Very true, especially with regard to Penn. He's really gone off the deep end since he started taking huge sums of money from Cato.

 

[clirus]

jmverville quote
Religion and politics should be separate lest both corrupt the other.

Response
I believe there is both a Christian Religion and an Atheistic Religion that is vying for control of America using the political process.

There is a cultural war in America between Christians and Atheists. This war is being fought on the battlefield of politics. The battles are in the voting booth. The prize in the cultural war is the hearts, minds and souls of the children. The Atheistic liberal news media greatly influences both domestic and foreign policy by constantly reporting only bad news about Christians, conservatives and Republicans and only good news about atheists, liberals and democrats. The agenda of the Atheistic liberal news media is to promote extreme environmentalism, socialism, feminism, inappropriate contentography, abortion, homosexuality and the Atheistic Lifestyle by having democrats in control of government.

I believe this cultural war stated when Roosevelt made socialism a government policy. Socialism and Christianity cannot coexist because Socialism requires the worship of the government and Christianity requires the worship of God.

I believe Separation of Church and State means that the Church should not have the right to execute and the State should not have the right to define morals. The government violated the Separation of Church and State when the Supreme Court legalized inappropriate contentography, abortion and homosexuality. Control of the government gives the Atheists the means to outlaw Christianity (Hate Crime Legislation, etc.).

I don't think most Christians want to be involved in politics, but if you don't control it, it will control you.

Some would say Christian control of the government would be a Christian Law or a Christian Theocracy, but I believe the Constitution was founded on Christian Principles, thus the only change that would be to stop the government from defining morals.

Republicans have yet to prove to me that they really support Christian principles, but democrats have proven they do "not" support Christian principles.

 

[Voegelin]

I believe there is both a Christian Religion and an Atheistic Religion that is vying for control of America using the political process.

There is a cultural war in America between Christians and Atheists. This war is being fought on the battlefield of politics. The battles are in the voting booth. The prize in the cultural war is the hearts, minds and souls of the children.

William F. Buckley mentioned that in God And Man At Yale published in 1952. He said the great struggle of our time was between Christianity and atheism. He added that "individualism and collectivism is the same struggle reproduced on another level."

I believe this cultural war stated when Roosevelt made socialism a government policy. Socialism and Christianity cannot coexist because Socialism requires the worship of the government and Christianity requires the worship of God.

That would be one place to pin the start of the conflict. Or one could look at the French Revolution. Note how the left in America admires Tom Paine (Bill Moyers son named his website after Paine) who was despised by his fellow American revolutionaries for his support of the French Revolution and infatuation with "reason". There were so-called "ethical" societies in the late 19th century which were atheistic as well. But the Democratic party at the time had William Jennings Bryan who was a devout Christian despite his socialism and dogmatic materialism. At its start, the New Deal was Christian as well. Left wing feminists today rant about FDR's patriarchal schemes. The New Deal did seek to protect, not undermine, the family. The change began in the late 1930s when Stalin formed the Popular Front. Until then, the far left had attacked FDR as a fascist. After the CPUSA and other agents of the USSR allied themselves with liberals in America, the decline began. It was knocked back in the 1950s but reemerged with the ascendancy to power of the New Left in the 1970s. The great split occurred in 1974 when the Democratic Party found over a third of the delegates to its nominating convention described themselves as secularists of one kind or another. Until that year, both parties shared a common appreciation of western moral values . After 1974, they did not.

 

[Voegelin]

Sadly, Voegelin does not agree with you.

I do? That is the second time it has been posted I said that. I let the first one go but since you've seen fit to repeat it, show me where I ever said that.

I haven't.

 

[SummerMadness]

There is a cultural war in America between Christians and Atheists. This war is being fought on the battlefield of politics. The battles are in the voting booth. The prize in the cultural war is the hearts, minds and souls of the children. The Atheistic liberal news media greatly influences both domestic and foreign policy by constantly reporting only bad news about Christians, conservatives and Republicans and only good news about atheists, liberals and democrats. The agenda of the Atheistic liberal news media is to promote extreme environmentalism, socialism, feminism, inappropriate contentography, abortion, homosexuality and the Atheistic Lifestyle by having democrats in control of government.

Please provide evidence to show this is true, especially inappropriate contentography.

 

[KomissarSteve]

I believe there is both a Christian Religion and an Atheistic Religion that is vying for control of America using the political process.

Sorry to break it to you, but atheists are in no ways united in the way that other religious groups are united. There are a few organized groups, but they make up a tiny, tiny percentage of the population that exists largely on the margin.

Sorry to burst your bubble that Christianity is somehow under siege in this country, but the sad reality, once you put down your Left Behind series books and have a look at it, is that we're by far the dominant religion in the U.S., and that most Democrats and liberals are Christians themselves.

If you want someone to blame for the fact that Christianity seems to be getting a bad rep today, then you really have no one to blame but the Christian Right, because that's what shows like Penn & Teller's "Bullsh*t!" are - reactions against those who claim to love Jesus, and then conveniently leave out the "love as I have loved you" bit of His message.


You must understand - I don't like atheism. I like most atheists I know, because they're great people, and, by and large, very, very intelligent. What I don't like is the fact that they're missing out on the joy of experiencing a fulfilling relationship with God. That makes me sad, because I know it would make them happier people if they did. But the way to change this, to combat atheism as a Christian, is not to treat it like another religion, much less some sort of diabolical force that opposes Christianity. Most atheists are not organized, and only a very small number of them are actual antitheists. Yet, by treating them like some sort of apocalyptic force of evil, you're only further polarizing the debate, and doing so based on complete misinformation, at that.

So seriously, clirus. It's time to let go of the "culture war" rhetoric, because first of all, it's not much of a war - Christians still rule America, even if Christian principles don't seem to enter into the picture all that much - and secondly, we only stand to lose from it.

 

[Voegelin]

Hmmm... gotta point there noparty. Thank God elections are not just around the corner. I have been a republican most of my life...but with that radical right wing lunatic group called "fundamentalist"..it has turned me off in such a way..I really have no idea what I would do. Much to sit and think about. I'm not sure what needs to happen in order for people to wake up and realize we have lunatics, disguised under the heading of Christians, rather than "brainwashed cults" from our lovely Bible Belt. .

Q.E.D.

Btw...the "been a republican all my life but" is repeated a lot on C-Span. Sounds like a script.

Your charges are not unusual on this forum. Look at the profiles of some of those who take the liberal side of things. Look at the screen names. At the avatars. Look at what they describe themselves as. This Pew poll is no surprise to me nor is it a surprise to the Democratic Party as I've mentioned above. Don't know why some are so upset over it.

 

[KomissarSteve]

Q.E.D.

Btw...the "been a republican all my life but" is repeated a lot on C-Span. Sounds like a script.

I bet you'd love to believe that. But it's really the paleoconservatives getting disgusted with the current neoconservative GOP leadership.

Your charges are not unusual on this forum. Look at the profiles of some of those who take the liberal side of things. Look at the screen names. At the avatars. Look at what they describe themselves as. This Pew poll is no surprise to me nor is it a surprise to the Democratic Party as I've mentioned above. Don't know why some are so upset over it.

Are you insinuating that most Democrats are atheists?

 

[UnitedInChrist]

Sorry to break it to you, but atheists are in no ways united in the way that other religious groups are united. There are a few organized groups, but they make up a tiny, tiny percentage of the population that exists largely on the margin.
I have no knowledge of this, so no comment from me. However, perhaps they may be athiest b/c they see those that have hijacked christianity today, and are turned off by what they see. don't know though

Sorry to burst your bubble that Christianity is somehow under siege in this country, but the sad reality, once you put down your Left Behind series books and have a look at it, is that we're by far the dominant religion in the U.S., and that most Democrats and liberals are Christians themselves.
I get what you're saying here, but you gotta keep in mind there are over 100+ denominations of those that call themselves christian. To be honest I think Christianity is under siege in this country BY FUNDAMENTALIST CHRISTIANS THEMSELVES!!!! They are the hard core, right wing, militant know it alls that have respect for no one that believes differently than them...CHRISTIANS INCLUDED!!! Ever see a fundamentalist speak to a Catholic? Ever hear a christian call another christian that prays to Mary a "heratic" for "following false gods"? Every see a fundamentalist in a UCC church? They rather see it burn down with everone in it. Ever see how fundamentalists deal with homosexuality? They set up a street corner ministry and start praying the gay outta them. So, yeah, christianity is VERY much under attack, because the 1% of the christian base as hijacked it and they are called Fundamentalists. You'll know them as those that are trying to take over a political party so they can replace a US president with an evangelical lunatic.

If you want someone to blame for the fact that Christianity seems to be getting a bad rep today, then you really have no one to blame but the Christian Right, because that's what shows like Penn & Teller's "Bullsh*t!" are - reactions against those who claim to love Jesus, and then conveniently leave out the "love as I have loved you" bit of His message.
Can i get an AMEN here!!! See my response above! This is hitting the nail on the head...seeing that you did it..and hitting it on the head again! The truth is sometimes scary isn't it?! If you're a fundamentalist...good for you. You know all your scriptures so you have a "do not pass go" to heaven..but in the meantime, what do you do with your teenage pregnant daughters? How do you deal with your spouses cheating? Maybe you just say "sins of the flesh" and put your heads back in the sand...pray the devil out of them, and then hurry off to your bible study?? I'm not sure.


You must understand - I don't like atheism. I like most atheists I know, because they're great people, and, by and large, very, very intelligent. What I don't like is the fact that they're missing out on the joy of experiencing a fulfilling relationship with God. That makes me sad, because I know it would make them happier people if they did. But the way to change this, to combat atheism as a Christian, is not to treat it like another religion, much less some sort of diabolical force that opposes Christianity. Most atheists are not organized, and only a very small number of them are actual antitheists. Yet, by treating them like some sort of apocalyptic force of evil, you're only further polarizing the debate, and doing so based on complete misinformation, at that.
Like I said..I don't know athiests...I dont think i do. But again, you sorta can't blame them if they think believing in God is the obsessive behaviors of those that get the attention today. I mean, I would even have a hard time accepting God. But, I do think they need to learn Christianity. It is great thing to believe in God, and have someone to give you that lift when you need it. To know someone is always there looking out for you when times are just a bit much for you. Keep them away from the fundamentalists though. They'll run screaming and never come back.

So seriously, clirus. It's time to let go of the "culture war" rhetoric, because first of all, it's not much of a war - Christians still rule America, even if Christian principles don't seem to enter into the picture all that much - and secondly, we only stand to lose from it.

I understand your passion here, I mean, come on...just look what Ive been typing. But, saying "still rule America" is sorta a bad thing. Christians don't rule ..it sorta sounds like a militant orthadox. Like those that call themselves "warriors of Christ" or "Gods Army" or "Religion Warriors" etc...As I've clearly pointed out...there are enough obsessive koolaid drinkers calling themselves Christians that truly DO wanna RULE AMERICA. Please don't confuse the majority of Christians with this psychotic bunch. Thanks!

 

[KomissarSteve]

I understand your passion here, I mean, come on...just look what Ive been typing. But, saying "still rule America" is sorta a bad thing. Christians don't rule ..it sorta sounds like a militant orthadox. Like those that call themselves "warriors of Christ" or "Gods Army" or "Religion Warriors" etc...As I've clearly pointed out...there are enough obsessive koolaid drinkers calling themselves Christians that truly DO wanna RULE AMERICA. Please don't confuse the majority of Christians with this psychotic bunch. Thanks!

Why would I conflate the two? I'm a Christian myself. I only used the term "rule" to illustrate to clirus that his notion that Christians are somehow disenfranchised in favor of atheists, who make up less than 4% of the population and have never had a president elected, holds no basis in reality.

 

[UnitedInChrist]

Q.E.D.

Btw...the "been a republican all my life but" is repeated a lot on C-Span. Sounds like a script.

Your charges are not unusual on this forum. Look at the profiles of some of those who take the liberal side of things. Look at the screen names. At the avatars. Look at what they describe themselves as. This Pew poll is no surprise to me nor is it a surprise to the Democratic Party as I've mentioned above. Don't know why some are so upset over it.

Don't quite get your post. My "charges"? What does that mean? That fundamentalists aren't trying to become a political party in this country and legislate moral code on America by putting a evangelical lunatic in the white house? That's a charge? I thought Fundamentalists make that perfectly clear that's what they want to do. What do you mean by "script"? I've never voted democratic in my life! However, the Republican party needs a major wakeup call. Not only for what is currently going on...but most people don't live in the Bible Belt (thank GOD). While they certainly have a pull on an election..most people do not relate well to extremes of any sort. It is the EXTREME RIGHT WING RELIGIOUS lunatics that have the republicans by the balls now...and America sees it very clearly. Watch what happens with our next election. War aside...people have no tolerance for redneck hypocracy who portray themselves as Christ themselves, yet live lives as anything but. Religion is VERY big now in politics..no different than any other lobbyiest group or big business group. The only problem is the squeeky wheel gets the grease, and today that happens to be our Jesus FREAKS!

 

[MSBS]

It's not even that the democrats are doing anything different. Most of us get defaulted into the democratic group because there is no reason for us to vote republican. That, and third party candidates rarely have a chance at winning in a two party system.

So you're a Democrat by default? Frankly, I haven't voted Republican in a decade, but I hold the Democrats in less regard then the Republicans. Just making it either this one or that one led us to the current situation, where to monolithic parties control the government, each with very little difference in policy. The raging "debates" between the two sides are laughable.

 

[USincognito]

Btw...the "been a republican all my life but" is repeated a lot on C-Span. Sounds like a script.

Don't tell me you watch Washington Journal too? Despite the fact that I'm a moderate who was against the Iraq war, I cringe and roll my eyes when it's obvious that callers who are full of it use the Republican line. I don't agree with the conspiracy mentality that it's organized, but the vitriol towards the president makes the motives of the individual transparent .

And what do you think of Greta Wodele? I think she's a fine addition to the host team.

 

[UnitedInChrist]

Tune in to 20/20 Friday nite..9PM EDST....2 hours on THE POWER OF FAITH!!! Get ready to see everything from spiritual meditation right thru to the fatnatical fundamentalists that roll on the floor screaming in tounges. Will make for a great thread afterwards...

 

[SimplyMe]

From an outside perspective (so feel free to totally disregard it asit's not American ) it looks like the Republicans are really going after conservative Christian voters while disregarind the concerns of other voters, thereby alienating moderate Christians, liberal Christians, conservative Christians who are politicall moderate right along with non-Christian voters.

This is something I'd really like to see. To me, the poll would have been far more meaningful if it would have broken down Christians either according to their domination or according to those who claim to be fundamentalist or born again. My personal feeling is that if fundamentalists were polled that they would have the majority of the votes for Republicans and that the remainder of Christians would have been about the same as those who do not attend church.

 

[BobfromSales]

We already know that God leans to the Right, not the Left.

"We" do? Evidence, please.

 

[MachZer0]

"We" do? Evidence, please.

As I said, it's in your Bible

 

[Morcova]

As I said, it's in your Bible

In otherwords you are completly and totally unable to back up your statment with any particular verses so you want others to do it for you.

 

[MachZer0]

In otherwords you are completly and totally unable to back up your statment with any particular verses so you want others to do it for you.

As an atheist, providing the verses wouldn't make much difference would they? What do you care if the Bible says God leans to the right if you believe that God does not exist?