613 v. 7

[muffler dragon]

I went online to look up the seven Noachide laws.

This was the first website to come up:

http://www.ahavat-israel.com/ahavat/am/goyim.asp

I have also looked at the one thread on here that had to do with the Noachide laws, but nothing conclusive ever came from the discussion.

Therefore, I thought I would bring this up for discussion with my wonderful brothers and sisters.

The seven laws as they are laid out on this website:

Avodah Zarah: Prohibition on idolatry.
Birchat HaShem: Prohibition on blasphemy and cursing the Name of G-d.
Shefichat Damim: Prohibition on murder.
Gezel: Prohibition on robbery and theft.
Gilui Arayot: Prohibition on immorality and forbidden sexual relations.
Ever Min HaChay: Prohibition on removing and eating a limb from a live animal.
Dinim: Requirement to establish a justice system and courts of law to enforce the other 6 laws.

I would love to hear any and all commentary on these laws. But more importantly (for me at least), I would like to know how these compare versus the 613 for me, a gentile. Part of the reason I bring it up is the fact that the L-rd has moved my heart to give up swine (as some of you are aware). Should I interpret this as an inclination that the L-rd might desire that I move into a fuller Jewish relationship? "Conversion" to Judaism sounds next to impossible for me on various levels, but could it still be a heart-condition conversion in the sense that if I begin to observe more of the 613 and the Torah, in general, that the L-rd would move into a deeper relationship with me, a gentile?

I hope my questions and pursuit are clear enough to warrant a response. I'll probably have a better way of presenting myself after I give it some more time, but I wanted to jump on this while it was fresh in my mind.

I look forward to hearing what you have to say.

Todah,

Nathan

 

[visionary]

I went through the same conversion because of what the Lord impressed upon my mind, but I never was under any conviction that it was Judaism, it was just God's wisdom. I was also under the conviction that they were listed under the unclean animals that came off of Noah's boat.

The conviction that you have came from that God has not changed. God knows how he made all things and he knows what is good for us. To relate the conviction that God has obviously put upon your heart and then just because you are getting the details from some man (group) makes you wonder if you are to join the group.....???I thought Yeshua was your shepherd,.... follow your convictions, follow the light that you have at this time, and follow your heart. The Lord will clear up the matter in His good time.

I know that was not the answer you are seeking. It is just musings on my part. Take no offense that I ramble on and on... around the convictions that you should take seriously and need the Lord's confirmation on. Besides it is a good way of learning the Lord's way. May the Lord bless you on your sojourn with Him. May you be blessed with the anointing of the Holy Spirit that will light up your heart and mind with the truth as the Lord would wish you to see it.

Keep trucking for the Lord.
Visionary

 

[Sephania]

( preparing to duck)

I don't see where the L-RD made separate rules for one people and another for another as long as they both choose to follow him and acknowledge him as the one true G-d. There are so many things left off that list that any one of them should I see someone doing..................


This is very much in line with the teaching that Act 15 was a license to have a pig roast and throw another shrimp on the barby. Doesn't wash with me.

 

[muffler dragon]

I went through the same conversion because of what the Lord impressed upon my mind, but I never was under any conviction that it was Judaism, it was just God's wisdom. I was also under the conviction that they were listed under the unclean animals that came off of Noah's boat.

The conviction that you have came from that God has not changed. God knows how he made all things and he knows what is good for us. To relate the conviction that God has obviously put upon your heart and then just because you are getting the details from some man (group) makes you wonder if you are to join the group.....???I thought Yeshua was your shepherd,.... follow your convictions, follow the light that you have at this time, and follow your heart. The Lord will clear up the matter in His good time.

I know that was not the answer you are seeking. It is just musings on my part. Take no offense that I ramble on and on... around the convictions that you should take seriously and need the Lord's confirmation on. Besides it is a good way of learning the Lord's way. May the Lord bless you on your sojourn with Him. May you be blessed with the anointing of the Holy Spirit that will light up your heart and mind with the truth as the Lord would wish you to see it.

Keep trucking for the Lord.
Visionary

Dearest Visionary:

As always, you speak very concisely to my heart. It may not mean much to those in observance of your words, but they strike a chord very true inside me. I thank you for taking the time and for being obedient in sharing them. I am of follower of the Good Shepherd. That is the key to many things that I need to address.

It's a day to day issue, as life normally turns out to be when we don't rush it.

Thank you most graciously.

Nathan

 

[muffler dragon]

( preparing to duck)

I don't see where the L-RD made separate rules for one people and another for another as long as they both choose to follow him and acknowledge him as the one true G-d. There are so many things left off that list that any one of them should I see someone doing..................


This is very much in line with the teaching that Act 15 was a license to have a pig roast and throw another shrimp on the barby. Doesn't wash with me.

No need to duck, Zayit. I am asking for any and all commentary. I thank you for sharing your understanding and opinion.

I simply appreciate the fact that I ask, and it is answered.

Nathan

 

[The Thadman]

One Torah for the Children of Israel and the foreigners within your gates.

Can't be as simple as Isaiah 56, either.

Peace!
-Steve-o

 

[LADY DI]

One Torah for the Children of Israel and the foreigners within your gates.

Shalom!!!
The foreigners" living within the gates", isnt that referring to those living in the actual land of Israel? In the Torah it repeatedly mentions how the foreigner must obey the laws of the G-d of Israel. Those who dwelt amongst the Israelites had to keep G-Ds law in order to live there.
I dont want to stir up a "wasp nest", but there are some laws I not sure we could observe, since there is no Temple. Forgive my ignorance, Im trying to understand.

Di

 

[simchat_torah]

The foreigners" living within the gates", isnt that referring to those living in the actual land of Israel?

Yes.

 

[muffler dragon]

[/color][/font]
Yes.

So, does this mean there is a distinction between those grafted in and those living within the physical gates?

I would tend to say no. But that is more of where my heart is being lent. In the small steps of learning that I have been taking, it feels like there is a satisfaction stirring in my heart. It's a bizarre sense of belonging.

Anyway... please continue with your thoughts.

Nathan

 

[ShirChadash]

( preparing to duck)

I don't see where the L-RD made separate rules for one people and another for another as long as they both choose to follow him and acknowledge him as the one true G-d.

ITA. (sorry, that's short for "I Totally Agree".)

 

[ShirChadash]

So, does this mean there is a distinction between those grafted in and those living within the physical gates?

JMHO, but I see it as anyone who attaches him/herself to the people of the One True G-d, YHVH. I say I serve the same G-d, YHVH, as His children Israel do. I say, as His Word says, He never ever changes. I say His Word is everlasting... it is His Memra, and His Memra is Yeshua, His "salvation", literally.

Therefore, I seek to behave as one of his children (and I am beginning to learn )... and He gave many very clear directions to His children, detailing what constitues living a life that pleases Him. If I call myself Abba YHVH's child, if I call upon the name of His Yeshua, and if I believe I belong to YHVH every bit as much as His children of Israel... then His Torah -- all of it that I can embrace and follow -- is mine to choose to follow. Personally, I do not believe in the "noachide laws" -- or at least they are not for me and mine.

 

[simchat_torah]

 

[ShirChadash]

Sorry -- but as I see it, if I want to be a child of the house, I do well to learn and follow the expectations of the Papa, so to speak.

 

[simchat_torah]

not specifically you zemmy.

 

[iitb]

Care to explain?

 

[ShirChadash]

oops, sorry! LOL... I thought since your post was just after mine...


OH well. What's that saying about... I should just let people think I be stupid rather than open my mouth and prove I be!

 

[The Thadman]

Shalom!!!
The foreigners" living within the gates", isnt that referring to those living in the actual land of Israel? In the Torah it repeatedly mentions how the foreigner must obey the laws of the G-d of Israel. Those who dwelt amongst the Israelites had to keep G-Ds law in order to live there.

Er, when this was given to Moses about strangers living as foreigners there was no "actual land of Israel." They were still in Egypt (Ex 12:1).

Also notice the phrase: "strangers living AS foreigners." The Apiru were a mixed rabble.

Thirdly, Isaiah 56 refers to gentiles who have united themselves to and minister to YHWH, no mention of where they lived.

I dont want to stir up a "wasp nest", but there are some laws I not sure we could observe, since there is no Temple. Forgive my ignorance, Im trying to understand.

Di

True, there are some. But not necessarily a Temple, per se: We need a place in which God has chosen his name to dwell. This could potentially be anywhere and even in multiple places at once. The last place we know that this was for certain was in Jerusalem in the Temple.

Peace!
-Steve-o

 

[debi b]

It is really important to know what scripture says There are many times when Torah clearly states "one Torah for the native born and one Torah for the gere".

Concepts get obscured at times becuse of translations. There are different Hebrew words used many times that are translated in English with the same word. A good example of that is the word "stranger".

If you are on any kind of a Torah reading cycle (which I would encourage) every time you run across words that are like stanger etc, look them up in a concordance and keep track. You will notice patterns emerge.

A suggestion IMHO would be for the number of years you have been a Christian (say 8 years just for grins) spend that many years reading Torah (say 8 years). What I see is that we need to balance out things and then they get easier to see. Besides we NEED a foundation in Torah to have the ability to evaluate all the ideas we run across.

I also wonder what we have lost because there is no Temple. Because we have never experinced that we can not even percieve our loss So rather than diminish its value we should contemplate...pray, grieve, desire....