6000 years?

[wagsbags]

For believers in this. I'm curious as to how you justify this? I'm going to assume that you aren't aware of the radioactive dating of the earth because only geologists and nuclear engineers really learn about that. But how do you explain dinosaur bones? Or the fact that we can trace human roots back far enough that it would seem unlikely that all humanity was created only a few thousand years earlier?

 

[Mechanical Bliss]

For believers in this. I'm curious as to how you justify this?

The only real (and honest, for that matter) answer you will get is that a literal interpretation of the Bible demands it--by adding up genaeological numbers and other dates from the Bible working under the assumption that everything happened as literally stated.

This stance was derived from the work of Bishop James Ussher. You can read more about why people think the earth is young and who Ussher was and what he did here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishop_Ussher

There is no valid extrabiblical justification. And if you ask young earth creationists why they think the earth is that young, their first answer will pretty much invariably be some variation of "the Bible says so" before they even attempt to justify it with real world evidence.

I'm going to assume that you aren't aware of the radioactive dating of the earth because only geologists and nuclear engineers really learn about that.

Some are aware of radiometric dating and some aren't. Almost every single YECist I've encountered (including those professional creationists whose articles appear on creationist websites) simply don't understand what radiometric dating is, how it works, and why it works. They typically ignore evidence to the contrary.

One of the two things I often cite when trying to educate YECists on radiometric dating from a more common sensical perspective is that the different methods agree. YECists just ignore that fact over and over again. It really decimates any argument that radiometric dating doesn't work, whether they admit it or not.

But how do you explain dinosaur bones?

Although there are some young earth creationists who believe that dinosaurs never existed and the bones were a deception created by satan (et al.) or believe that dinosaurs did exist and the evidence was manipulated by satan (et al.), I think you'll find that most YECists think dinosaurs and humans lived contemporaneously despite the fact that there is no evidence to support that assertion.

 

[wagsbags]

That's about what I thought. And I've heard the argument that dinosaur bones are created by Satan but is that view popular at all? I mean come on!

 

[JohnR7]

I'm curious as to how you justify this?

The only way I can see that they justify it is to ignore the evidence.
Jesus warns us to watch out for people who put their traditons ahead of the truth.

Mark 7:8a For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men,

Mark 7:13a Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition,

 

[wagsbags]

So how many Christians believe this?

 

[Valkhorn]

So how many Christians believe this?

Thankfully, only a VERY small fraction of christians are YEC'ers. And I do mean a VERY small fraction.

Sort of like the fringe group of conspiracy buffs who think the moon landing was a hoax, or that there never was a holocaust - despite loads of evidence to the contrary.

And no, I'm not invoking Godwin's law

 

[Deamiter]

Quite a few in America actually.

Religioustolerance.org (at the specific page linked) cites 5% of scientists in America hold to creationist views (creation happened under 10,000 years ago). However, a full 44% of Americans believe in creationism. It's certainly not a widespread view in academia, but if you look at the numbers (again on that site) only 25% of college graduates (with any degree) hold to creationism while 65% of those with no high school diploma believe the same.

Some would argue that the whole education system (through graduate schooling) has a hidden agenda. Others look at the data and wonder why those who dropped out have so little respect for the people who spend their entire lives studying these subjects.

Of course, outside of America you'll never see such stark contrasts between the general public and academia on this subject. In most places in this world, education is respected and appreciated rather than distrusted and feared!

 

[Hydra009]

Of course, outside of America you'll never see such stark contrasts between the general public and academia on this subject. In most places in this world, education is respected and appreciated rather than distrusted and feared!

Amen to that. The rest of the world would do well not to catch this disease that we have.

I find it hard to believe that there are so many creationists out there. That's more than either the number of theistic evolutionists or non-theistic evolutionists. I haven't yet checked the numbers, but that's got to be more than the number of Christians with fundamentalist beliefs, too. You'd think that with 44% of the population, American creationists would be able to do more than intimidate a few school districts and peddle disclaimer stickers. (Not that I'm complaining) With those kind of numbers, wouldn't there be absolutely massive ideological battles going on all across the nation about evolution?

*hopes this thread doesn't turn into a debate about the existence of a vast scientist/college/atheist conspiracy*

 

[Deamiter]

To be fair, the questions were (and are -- studies by this source are ongoing with the same questions) very open. Quite frankly, I honestly believe that most people that think this way do so simply because it's easier and they've never had REASON to question the dates given by their pastors. Certainly it's only really vital in a few specialized areas of bio-industry or in academia. The vast majority of people really couldn't care less!

To be fair, a full 39% believes that God guided evolution or some form of Theistic evolution. The questions are meant to be very general and not try to go into details, but because of that they do allow more general conclusions about populations...

Note that these numbers are from 1997. They're recent enough to be applicable, but don't really reflect recent media attention (and politiking).

 

[gluadys]

Note that these numbers are from 1997. They're recent enough to be applicable, but don't really reflect recent media attention (and politiking).

Gallup tends to re-run these surveys about every 10 years. So we should get updated figures in a couple of years.

 

[Hydra009]

I agree. Do you know of any more recent polls? I'd be interested in more data on exactly what Americans believe regarding evolution.

 

[dad]

For believers in this. I'm curious as to how you justify this? I'm going to assume that you aren't aware of the radioactive dating of the earth because only geologists and nuclear engineers really learn about that. But how do you explain dinosaur bones? Or the fact that we can trace human roots back far enough that it would seem unlikely that all humanity was created only a few thousand years earlier?

Dinosaurs were creatures even mentioned in the book of Job. Why wouldn't there be bones? Decay is something even people do, and at a much faster rate than in recorded times of the bible. Adam wouldn't have decayed at all if he didn't chose to believe the lies of the serpent. Like today's education, it was basically saying, 'ye shall be as gods'. But they found out the hard way he was a liar.
Something happened, I feel it was some type of seperation of the spiritual from the physical, but, whatever it was, resulted in things starting to decay. If we measure it today, it seems like long times are involved. At least that's my opinion of it, with what I've heard so far.

 

[USincognito]

Like today's education, it was basically saying, 'ye shall be as gods'.

Could you please point out where in today's "education" it tells students they shall be as gods?

 

[Beastt]

Dinosaurs were creatures even mentioned in the book of Job. Why wouldn't there be bones? Decay is something even people do, and at a much faster rate than in recorded times of the bible. Adam wouldn't have decayed at all if he didn't chose to believe the lies of the serpent. Like today's education, it was basically saying, 'ye shall be as gods'. But they found out the hard way he was a liar.
Something happened, I feel it was some type of seperation of the spiritual from the physical, but, whatever it was, resulted in things starting to decay. If we measure it today, it seems like long times are involved. At least that's my opinion of it, with what I've heard so far.

Perhaps I'm not understanding what you're saying. It sounds as though the claim is that decay wasn't a part of biology until after man's fall from grace. Wouldn't that constitute a violation of the second law of thermodynamics? Unless biological entities remain alive, cellular repair ceases. At that point decay would have to take over. Of course I know this isn't the only claim in the Bible which violates the known laws and theories governing physical properties of the universe, but it's one I hadn't heard before.

 

[wrldstrman]

I belive mankind starting with Adam and has only been on the earth for 6000 years.I belive were really close to the 1000 year mileniunm reign of Christ..to complete the 7000 years..but God is from ever lasting to ever lasting..Dinosaurs were puT on the planet by God maybe before man was created.I watched a very interesting show once that said the only way to have arcurate dating is you had to have had someting that was known positively to exsist at a certian time to date things back to that time..I belive only God knows how old things are.Man just guesses.

 

[USincognito]

Welcome to the forum wrldstrman.

I suggest you take a look at the Radioative dating dating 101 thread we were discussing just recently. Your assertion about dating is incorrect.

 

[dad]

Could you please point out where in today's "education" it tells students they shall be as gods?

Well, the serpent was basicly saying 'God's lying, you won't really die, He didn't really mean that'. But the moment they ate that fruit they did begin to die. In evolutionary teachings, it is taught, basicly, that there is no God, we all sailed out of a little singularity somehow (don't ask questions, class, we just did). And if there was a God, for those poor souls who actually believe that nonsense, why, He didn't really do it the way He said He did! No, it's just you, as gods, that really exist. ha

 

[dad]

I belive mankind starting with Adam and has only been on the earth for 6000 years.I belive were really close to the 1000 year mileniunm reign of Christ..to complete the 7000 years..but God is from ever lasting to ever lasting..Dinosaurs were puT on the planet by God maybe before man was created.I watched a very interesting show once that said the only way to have arcurate dating is you had to have had someting that was known positively to exsist at a certian time to date things back to that time..I belive only God knows how old things are.Man just guesses.

So do I.

 

[Douglaangu v2.0]

Well, the serpent was basicly saying 'God's lying, you won't really die, He didn't really mean that'. But the moment they ate that fruit they did begin to die. In evolutionary teachings, it is taught, basicly, that there is no God, we all sailed out of a little singularity somehow (don't ask questions, class, we just did). And if there was a God, for those poor souls who actually believe that nonsense, why, He didn't really do it the way He said He did! No, it's just you, as gods, that really exist. ha

Are you retarded? Do you have some kind of learning disablity? Are you unable to comprehend any thing outside your narrow scope of thought?

How can you expect anyone to hold a dialogue with you if you act like this, mispresenting science and showing a huge amount of disrespect for the people who have dedicated their lives to researching it.

 

[dad]

Perhaps I'm not understanding what you're saying. It sounds as though the claim is that decay wasn't a part of biology until after man's fall from grace. Wouldn't that constitute a violation of the second law of thermodynamics?

Absolutely! Thank God. As it will some sill physical has been law, when we are raised from the graves!

Unless biological entities remain alive, cellular repair ceases. At that point decay would have to take over. Of course I know this isn't the only claim in the Bible which violates the known laws and theories governing physical properties of the universe, but it's one I hadn't heard before.

What kind of cellular repair do you think Jesus had?! The body without the spirit is DEAD (even if it takes seventy years or so to complete the process). But with the spirit, is life, and with Jesus, life everlasting!
Violates 'known' laws and theories? You bet, that's His specialty! What laws and theories make a 1500 mile golden city? What theories and puny physical laws give us eternal life? What theory allowed for God to outright create the universe, and all life?
What law allows a person to walk on water, speak languages he never knew, raise the dead, heal the blind, and walk through walls, and fly up to the clouds? None. Only when you add the unseen spirit world can such things happen. How much mass is not seen in the universe, even though they can detect it's effects? The absolute majority is 'unseen'! Physical 'laws' are fine for a little physical dimension as a general rule, to be overruled at will by a little mix of the spirit world!