5 Problems with Palin

[kermit]

She was fully within her rights to fire him for whatever reason she wanted to, the trooper deserved to be fired, and she has already accepted that she'll take whatever hit there is because the buck stops with her. She's not running from this, or throwing someone under the bus, because there's nothing there. She may have a racist grandma, we won't know because she hasn't yet felt the need to blame other's for her mistakes.

Firing the trooper was not her decision. This was at least the third time that she showed a lack of good stewardship with the power that was granted to her by doing something similar. The first time caused the town of Wasilla to hire an adminstrator to conduct most city business and nearly lead to a recall vote.

Leaders are stewards of the authority that the public grants them. It's not enough that they merely act within the letter of the law. Using that authority for personal or political gain/favors is not being a good steward of that authority and is not good leadership.

Untrue, do your homework, the threads probably no page 2 right now.

This one is a bit up in the air yet, but you are probably right.

She didn't want the bridge, didn't make the money for the bridge appear, and wasn't even governor at the time.

During her campaign she spoke positively about getting the bridge built. She only changed her mind after the project became unpopular.

Yay for library porn?
And where's the proof that the reason she tried to fire her was over censorship? Does the librarian even claim that, or is it just a coincidence?

We never found out what she was wanted to censor as the libararian refused to comply. The librarian only kept her job because public opinion was against Palin and she was forced to back of.

Because evolution is really and rock solid as high school teachers like to claim, right? It must be nice to be so smart, and odor free.

Science belongs in science class. Creationism is not science.

And the vp daily task has been gone through here as well. So I'll ask you the same question no-one else has been able to answer: What does the person in the position at work that you hope to get promoted to do EVERY SINGLE DAY? Cause that's what she said she didn't know: every single day. And you don't know it and I don't know it.

I don't know, but would you accept a job if you didn't know what the job was?

 

[Wyzaard]

The real issue with Palin is what her choice says about McCain's judgement. I can see choosing someone with little experience, but choosing a VP requires careful vetting, and skipping the vetting is very irresponsible.

Well, considering McCain picked Karl "let's race-bait McCain2000" Rove to run his campaign, and Phil "America's poor are a bunch of whiners" Gramm to his economic advisorship... methinks his decision-making abilities are a tad off.

 

[Wyzaard]

I'd have more confidence in someone who's actually run something, whether it's a city or a state, than in someone's who's never run anything.

The responsibilities inherent in long stints in the Senate pales her 20 months of embarrassing gaffes.

Her experience may be limited, but she is running for VP afterall...of course, I'm assuming McCain isn't going to die his first day in office!

But given her ignorance of what VPs actually DO, and the 1200-page medical report McCain released detailing only the last 8 years of his problems... uh oh.

I think the reason she was chosen is because of careful vetting.

The national Republican party apparachiks were all shocked at the choice, made without consultation.... so no, that's not what happened.

... and there were some concerns about Huckabee's stances.

That he was an ardent creationist that didn't understand church-state separation? Palin has that problem too...

I think his choice was very calculated, actually.

Too fool absolute suckers, sure. but why would anyone in their right mind make such a choice?

 

[Loudmouth]

1. Abuse of power firing of a public safety commissioner for not firing a trooper over her sister's divorce. http://www.adn.com/monegan/story/478090.html

2. Connection to Alaskan secessionists. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/04/us/politics/04party.html?ref=politics

3. Flipflop on bridge to nowhere.
http://www.adn.com/sarahpalin/story/511471.html

4. Firing a librarian while mayor for refusing to censor books. http://news.bostonherald.com/news/2008/view.bg?articleid=1117009&srvc=2008campaign&position=15

5. Proponent of "teach both sides" in regards to evolution.
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gV5jvU52RD3WBflzbmSu5l6zwOqAD92V3VQG0

Did McCain really do his homework when he chose her?

What scares me is that many believe these are strengths, not problems. They want a president that is vindictive and pro-creationism. Her speech at the RNC was nothing more than sarcastic shots at Obama. No substance, just low blows. That's what they want.

 

[Wyzaard]

Welcome to the right-wing double standard.

I love the implicit sexism of the claim that we can't be critical of a woman who is could be one heartbeat from the presidency.

The right-wingers claim that Obama supports accuse anyone who is critical of Obama is a racist. Yet I have yet to see or hear any say that. Now, I have seen right-wingers accuse Obama supporter of sexism for being critical of Palin.

It's not merely right-wing hypocrisy. It right-wing hypocrisy mixed with a right-wing lie.

As the Daily Show showed SO well:

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/09/04/jon-stewart-exposes-rove-hannity-morris-palin-hypocrisy/

And further...

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/palin-accuses-o.html

From Steinem:

"Selecting Sarah Palin, who was touted all summer by Rush Limbaugh, is no way to attract most women, including die-hard Clinton supporters. Palin shares nothing but a chromosome with Clinton. Her down-home, divisive and deceptive speech did nothing to cosmeticize a Republican convention that has more than twice as many male delegates as female, a presidential candidate who is owned and operated by the right wing and a platform that opposes pretty much everything Clinton’s candidacy stood for — and that Barack Obama’s still does. To vote in protest for McCain/Palin would be like saying, “Somebody stole my shoes, so I’ll amputate my legs.” Palin’s value to those patriarchs is clear: She opposes just about every issue that women support by a majority or plurality. She believes that creationism should be taught in public schools but disbelieves global warming; she opposes gun control but supports government control of women’s wombs; she opposes stem cell research but approves “abstinence-only” programs, which increase unwanted births, sexually transmitted diseases and abortions; she tried to use taxpayers’ millions for a state program to shoot wolves from the air but didn’t spend enough money to fix a state school system with the lowest high-school graduation rate in the nation; she runs with a candidate who opposes the Fair Pay Act but supports $500 million in subsidies for a natural gas pipeline across Alaska; she supports drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Reserve, though even McCain has opted for the lesser evil of offshore drilling. She is Phyllis Schlafly, only younger"

Debt, debt... and more debt incurred by Palin's administration:

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/...-queen-of-ak-left-wasilla-20-million-in-debt/

A liar under oath...

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/09/05/troopergate-a-devastating-expose/

Teen pregnancy programs ironically slashed:

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/09/05/sarah-palin-slashed-funding-for-teen-pregnancy-programs/

"ST. PAUL — Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, the Republican vice-presidential nominee who revealed Monday that her 17-year-old daughter is pregnant, earlier this year used her line-item veto to slash funding for a state program benefiting teen mothers in need of a place to live.After the legislature passed a spending bill in April, Palin went through the measure reducing and eliminating funds for programs she opposed. Inking her initials on the legislation — “SP” — Palin reduced funding for Covenant House Alaska by more than 20 percent, cutting funds from $5 million to $3.9 million. Covenant House is a mix of programs and shelters for troubled youths, including Passage House, which is a transitional home for teenage mothers. Read on…"

​

 

[Angel4Truth]

1. Abuse of power firing of a public safety commissioner for not firing a trooper over her sister's divorce. http://www.adn.com/monegan/story/478090.html

Better check out the entire story there. The trooper drank on the job, tasered his 11 year old step son and abused his job in many ways and the comminsioner was not fired for refusing to fire him - but for budget/money issues - its called tall tales from the disgruntled.

2. Connection to Alaskan secessionists. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/04/us/politics/04party.html?ref=politics

The new york times had to post a retraction of this because it was not true.

3. Flipflop on bridge to nowhere.
http://www.adn.com/sarahpalin/story/511471.html

She said herself she initionally supported it before being in office at first and then when more information (the facts) was given to her on it - she totally disagreed - it was part of her speech. Its called making a smart decision.

4. Firing a librarian while mayor for refusing to censor books. http://news.bostonherald.com/news/2008/view.bg?articleid=1117009&srvc=2008campaign&position=15

This is blog propoganda which is why it isnt in the mainstream news.

5. Proponent of "teach both sides" in regards to evolution.
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gV5jvU52RD3WBflzbmSu5l6zwOqAD92V3VQG0

This is a good thing. Open and honest teaching from both sides so people can make their own choice based on the hypothesis presented.

Did McCain really do his homework when he chose her?

You bet and the poll numbers show it was a brilliant decision.

 

[JoyJuice]

Better check out the entire story there. The trooper drank on the job, tasered his 11 year old step son and abused his job in many ways and the comminsioner was not fired for refusing to fire him - but for budget/money issues - its called tall tales from the disgruntled.

If she has nothing to hide and is the stand up reformist she claims, then I guess there would be no reason for McCains lawyers trying to legally make so she would not have to testify in the investigation....that is about her actions. :o

The new york times had to post a retraction of this because it was not true.

She is NOT a member of the group, but by telling them to "keep up the good fight" it appears she condones their actions.

She said herself she initionally supported it before being in office at first and then when more information (the facts) was given to her on it - she totally disagreed - it was part of her speech. Its called making a smart decision.

Which speech were the details laid out?

It sure wasn't her acceptence speech at the convention. Moreover, I guess this:

"Palin's 2007 press release announcing her change of course (to reject the bridge) came just a month after McCain himself slammed the Ketchikan bridge for taking money that could have been used to shore up dangerous bridges like one that collapsed in Minnesota."

ADN

....I guess that was just a coincidence. She did however take the earmarks.

This is blog propoganda which is why it isnt in the mainstream news.

It is in quite a few newspapers across America

This is a good thing. Open and honest teaching from both sides so people can make their own choice based on the hypothesis presented.
You bet and the poll numbers show it was a brilliant decision.

Yes, it should be taught in a literature class right along with the Babylonia creation myth, Native American creation myths, any Aesop Fable pertaining to creation....and heck, a good "the Storks brings home babies to Mommy and Daddy" myth.

Hope that helps.

 

[Bill_monkey]

Better check out the entire story there. The trooper drank on the job, tasered his 11 year old step son and abused his job in many ways and the comminsioner was not fired for refusing to fire him - but for budget/money issues - its called tall tales from the disgruntled.

The new york times had to post a retraction of this because it was not true.

She said herself she initionally supported it before being in office at first and then when more information (the facts) was given to her on it - she totally disagreed - it was part of her speech. Its called making a smart decision.

This is blog propoganda which is why it isnt in the mainstream news.

This is a good thing. Open and honest teaching from both sides so people can make their own choice based on the hypothesis presented.
You bet and the poll numbers show it was a brilliant decision.

A) The troopergate is ongoing from what I can see.

B) The NYTs retracted on Sarah Palin being in the AIP, but that story is about her husband being in the AIP.

C) She supported the bridge until Stevens couldn't get her any more money. And its not like she gave back the money for the bridge. She was for the bridge while it could do things for her politically and she was for it when it could be used an excuse for getting Alaska extra money from the rest of the States and she was against it when it became extremely unpopular to the rest of the states (but she kept the money anyways).


D) As a biochemist, I can tell you that Evolution is a fact. ID is not a theory (at least not in sciencific terms), its not science and there is no reason to teach it. Evolution provides the theoretical basis for all of biology - connecting what would otherwise be a bunch of unrelated facts. It should be tought throughout grade school and high school as the foundation for the rest of biology and it makes no sense whatsoever to undermine it by also teaching ID.

E) How is firing a librarian with unjust reasons blog propaganda? The MSM is largely incompetant and likes to play up sex and hypocricy more then illegitimate firings. But I am pretty sure that I have read that story in MSM sources.

F) I would also point to Palin's error in which she wrote that the Pledge of Allegiance came from the founding father's as evidence of a poor understanding of American and its history.

 

[Wyzaard]

The new york times had to post a retraction of this because it was not true.

Or more accurately, it was only somewhat true that she was in bed with secessionists.

This is a good thing. Open and honest teaching from both sides so people can make their own choice based on the hypothesis presented.

There is no other 'side' when it comes to evolution... one is a well-confirmed scientific theory, the other is a religious construction; there's no contest here when it comes to facts.

 

[praying]

1. Abuse of power firing of a public safety commissioner for not firing a trooper over her sister's divorce. http://www.adn.com/monegan/story/478090.html

2. Connection to Alaskan secessionists. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/04/us/politics/04party.html?ref=politics

3. Flipflop on bridge to nowhere.
http://www.adn.com/sarahpalin/story/511471.html

4. Firing a librarian while mayor for refusing to censor books. http://news.bostonherald.com/news/2008/view.bg?articleid=1117009&srvc=2008campaign&position=15

5. Proponent of "teach both sides" in regards to evolution.
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gV5jvU52RD3WBflzbmSu5l6zwOqAD92V3VQG0

Did McCain really do his homework when he chose her?

Number 4 IMO should not be on the list..

 

[oldbetang]

A) C) She supported the bridge until Stevens couldn't get her any more money. And its not like she gave back the money for the bridge. She was for the bridge while it could do things for her politically and she was for it when it could be used an excuse for getting Alaska extra money from the rest of the States and she was against it when it became extremely unpopular to the rest of the states (but she kept the money anyways).

She changed her mind. Is that always bad?

D) As a biochemist, I can tell you that Evolution is a fact. ID is not a theory (at least not in sciencific terms), its not science and there is no reason to teach it. Evolution provides the theoretical basis for all of biology - connecting what would otherwise be a bunch of unrelated facts. It should be tought throughout grade school and high school as the foundation for the rest of biology and it makes no sense whatsoever to undermine it by also teaching ID.

A non-issue, since Palin has never advocated that ID be forced into the public school system.

E) How is firing a librarian with unjust reasons blog propaganda? The MSM is largely incompetant and likes to play up sex and hypocricy more then illegitimate firings. But I am pretty sure that I have read that story in MSM sources.

Who exactly was fired, and what were the reasons given?

F) I would also point to Palin's error in which she wrote that the Pledge of Allegiance came from the founding father's as evidence of a poor understanding of American and its history.

Palin was not referring specifically to the Pledge of Allegiance, but rather the phase "Under God" contained in it. That is, she was alluding to the notion that the Founders were not averse to acknowledging that the nation was blessed by God.

I have lived, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth — that God Governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? - Benjamin Franklin ,July 28, 1787 address at the Constitutional Convention
​

 

[Sphere]

This is a good thing. Open and honest teaching from both sides so people can make their own choice based on the hypothesis presented.

The side of evolution consists of established science and biology.

The side of creationism consists of..??

I wonder who has a better grasp of biology and the mechanisms to which it works--PH.D researchers who actually study the field, or a bunch of religious fanatics.

But really, since you appear to be interested in teaching "both sides", let's see how far you're willing to stretch it.

Do you support teaching alchemy as the other side to chemistry?
Do you support teaching faith healing as the other side to medicine?
Do you support teaching flat-earth theoryas the other side to geology?
Do you support teaching possession sickness as the other side of the germ theory of disease?
Do you support teaching geocentrism as the other side of astronomy?

We'll teach the children all of those things, and let them make up their own minds. Sound good?

 

[holyrokker]

1. Abuse of power firing of a public safety commissioner for not firing a trooper over her sister's divorce. http://www.adn.com/monegan/story/478090.html

2. Connection to Alaskan secessionists. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/04/us/politics/04party.html?ref=politics

3. Flipflop on bridge to nowhere.
http://www.adn.com/sarahpalin/story/511471.html

4. Firing a librarian while mayor for refusing to censor books. http://news.bostonherald.com/news/2008/view.bg?articleid=1117009&srvc=2008campaign&position=15

5. Proponent of "teach both sides" in regards to evolution.
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gV5jvU52RD3WBflzbmSu5l6zwOqAD92V3VQG0

Did McCain really do his homework when he chose her?

#1 is currently under investigation. It's been alleged. Last time I checked - the USA holds to inoocent until proven guilty. That being said - she appears to have a tendency to fire people who get in her way. http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1837918,00.html

#2 is false
#3 true
#4 She neither fired, nor tried to fire the librarian. (see above linked Time Magazine article)
#5 true

Did McCain really do his homework? Most likely not. I'm sure it was handled by people working for his campaign. I get the impression that he didn't care about her negatives.

 

[Everlasting33]

Although it is wise to be aware of our politician's backgrounds, we must accept and understand that no one has a perfect record, judgment and history. The extent and duration of inconsistencies is what is important.

 

[Godzman]

1. Abuse of power firing of a public safety commissioner for not firing a trooper over her sister's divorce. http://www.adn.com/monegan/story/478090.html

2. Connection to Alaskan secessionists. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/04/us/politics/04party.html?ref=politics

3. Flipflop on bridge to nowhere.
http://www.adn.com/sarahpalin/story/511471.html

4. Firing a librarian while mayor for refusing to censor books. http://news.bostonherald.com/news/2008/view.bg?articleid=1117009&srvc=2008campaign&position=15

5. Proponent of "teach both sides" in regards to evolution.
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gV5jvU52RD3WBflzbmSu5l6zwOqAD92V3VQG0

Did McCain really do his homework when he chose her?

The first two are still in question, but what bothers me is number four and five. Now if they want to teach creationism in literature or some philosophy class fine but not in science, unless there was legitamite scientific evidence

 

[soblessed53]

1. Abuse of power firing of a public safety commissioner for not firing a trooper over her sister's divorce. http://www.adn.com/monegan/story/478090.html

2. Connection to Alaskan secessionists. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/04/us/politics/04party.html?ref=politics

3. Flipflop on bridge to nowhere.
http://www.adn.com/sarahpalin/story/511471.html

4. Firing a librarian while mayor for refusing to censor books. http://news.bostonherald.com/news/2008/view.bg?articleid=1117009&srvc=2008campaign&position=15

5. Proponent of "teach both sides" in regards to evolution.
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gV5jvU52RD3WBflzbmSu5l6zwOqAD92V3VQG0

Did McCain really do his homework when he chose her?

You forgot the 'undeclared' carwash business,too! So that makes 6 problems!

Palin Scrubbing Turns Up an Undeclared Car Wash Business!

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the..._car_wash.html

http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-s...r_20070211.pdf

 

[Bill_monkey]

She changed her mind. Is that always bad?


A non-issue, since Palin has never advocated that ID be forced into the public school system.



Who exactly was fired, and what were the reasons given?



Palin was not referring specifically to the Pledge of Allegiance, but rather the phase "Under God" contained in it. That is, she was alluding to the notion that the Founders were not averse to acknowledging that the nation was blessed by God.

I have lived, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth — that God Governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? - Benjamin Franklin ,July 28, 1787 address at the Constitutional Convention
​

It depends on why you changed your mind. Political opportunism isn't a very legitimate reason. And her actions only suggest that she was being opportunistic.

Palin has advocated teaching both ID and evolution in classrooms

Palin fired the librarian and another town employee for "not supporting her", which I certainly consider an illigitimate reason to fire someone. It was equally bad of her to suggest banning books.

The phrase that Palin used and the question:
Are you offended by the phrase “Under God” in the Pledge of Allegiance? Why or why not?
SP: Not on your life. If it was good enough for the founding fathers, its good enough for me and I’ll fight in defense of our Pledge of Allegiance

Let me break this down for you. Are you offended by phrase IN Pledge. Therefore, the "it" must refer to the phrase IN the Pledge. Not the phrase by itself, which doesn't make sense. The phrase was only added IN the pledge within McCain's lifetime.

 

[Saving Hawaii]

The side of evolution consists of established science and biology.

The side of creationism consists of..??

I wonder who has a better grasp of biology and the mechanisms to which it works--PH.D researchers who actually study the field, or a bunch of religious fanatics.

But really, since you appear to be interested in teaching "both sides", let's see how far you're willing to stretch it.

Do you support teaching alchemy as the other side to chemistry?
Do you support teaching faith healing as the other side to medicine?
Do you support teaching flat-earth theoryas the other side to geology?
Do you support teaching possession sickness as the other side of the germ theory of disease?
Do you support teaching geocentrism as the other side of astronomy?

We'll teach the children all of those things, and let them make up their own minds. Sound good?

Shoot. Why don't we just teach them beer as the other side of thinking?

 

[Bill_monkey]

#2 is false
#3 true
#4 She neither fired, nor tried to fire the librarian.

2) is not false. The false story was that she was apart of the AIP. The true story is that her husband was a part of the AIP. 2 discusses her husband

4) She did try to fire the librarian. Its been reported in the Christian Science Monitor and the NYTimes and other magazines. She didn't fire her right after proposing to ban books and did not list that as the reason for trying to fire her as I said above.

 

[CACTUSJACKmankin]

She changed her mind. Is that always bad?

Not when GOP walked around in flipflops in 2004.