5 Challenges to Trump's Wall

[blackribbon]

During the campaign, Trump spoke about building a 30 foot high concrete wall. I'm soundly against that. It's stupidly expensive, hard to maintain, and wouldn't solve the problem. If we're talking about a fence, while I think it doesn't fix the problem, at least it isn't wasting 10+ billion dollars a year.

Do you really hold everyone to the letter the law like that? If your appointment with your doctor is at 10:30, did he LIE if he doesn't call you back until 10:45? Honestly, if whole wall isn't 30ft high and made of concrete, he didn't carry out his campaign promise? We need to define our southern border and keep illegals from crossing it illegally. If that happens, most of us will consider the promise met.

 

[Armoured]

Please -- between the bribery and/or intimidation of the work crews, they'll have their tunnels built before the cement sets.

I have no doubt that the tunnels and the wall in many cases will be built simultaneously and by the same people.

 

[Radrook]

Good point if it were true that all illegals were here to find work. Unfortunately, many that come into our country are not here to find work. They are here to create havoc. Will taking away their food keep those people from wanting to come? I read where the Muslims and other nationalities are infiltrating our country from Mexico. What might they be up to doing?

Well, if Americans are notorious for consuming illegal drugs then people who deal in drugs will be attracted to America because that's where they can make a killing selling illegal drugs to Americans. Perhaps an effort to remove the market is the real solution.

 

[Armoured]

So basically, we shouldn't build a wall or fence and protect our border because it is hard to do and mean to the Mexicans?

No, basically, the point is that building a wall doesn't make sense from a cost/benefit analysis. The cost of the wall will far outweigh the benefits of it.

 

[blackribbon]

Who's coming here to create havoc? There are millions of them here now, where's all the havoc? Seems like they'd be better at it.

No, most people come here because they are fleeing where they were and there are jobs here that will take them. Maybe some come here to be jerks, fine, but not millions, probably not even half a percent of them come here to do that. Take away the jobs, the people will not come here.

Then we could work at finding a way to help the people here become legal citizens, since deporting millions of people is also a waste of money.

I lived in a neighborhood that went from being very family oriented to being a danger gang area and even qualified for a special gang task force. The parents came over to work and for opportunities but they were gone so much and the teens just joined gangs and terrorized the neighborhood. When my grocery store circulars no longer came in English, I gave up and moved.

 

[wing2000]

Prosecuting US EMPLOYERS who hire illegal immigrants would be far more effective....

 

[Radrook]

I have no doubt that the tunnels and the wall in many cases will be built simultaneously and by the same people.

How much intimidation influence do Mexican drug cartels have on those people in charge of those Mexican construction companies?

 

[LoAmmi]

Do you really hold everyone to the letter the law like that? If your appointment with your doctor is at 10:30, did he LIE if he doesn't call you back until 10:45? Honestly, if whole wall isn't 30ft high and made of concrete, he didn't carry out his campaign promise? We need to define our southern border and keep illegals from crossing it illegally. If that happens, most of us will consider the promise met.

Then the solution is to stop people from coming here, not putting up something that we know won't work so we "feel better". But, "feel better" is easier than the other solutions, so here we go!!!!!!!!

 

[Armoured]

Well, if Americans are notorious for consuming illegal drugs then people who deal in drugs will be attracted to America because that's where they can make a killing selling illegal drugs to Americans. Perhaps an effort to remove the market is the real solution.

Well, I can find a lot of them...check every public school in Texas. Mexico deports their illegals in 72 hours.

So you propose a suspension of due process for suspected illegals? I imagine that will make life difficult for Hispanic American citizens, but whether that's a bug or a feature...?

 

[blackribbon]

No, basically, the point is that building a wall doesn't make sense from a cost/benefit analysis. The cost of the wall will far outweigh the benefits of it.

Where are your statistics that document this?

 

[wing2000]

So you propose a suspension of due process for suspected illegals? I imagine that will make life difficult for Hispanic American citizens, but whether that's a bug or a feature...?

We saw how well that worked in Arizona.....

 

[LoAmmi]

I lived in a neighborhood that went from being very family oriented to being a danger gang area and even qualified for a special gang task force. The parents came over to work and for opportunities but they were gone so much and the teens just joined gangs and terrorized the neighborhood. When my grocery store circulars no longer came in English, I gave up and moved.

The sad thing? The teens you're speaking about people were US citizens since they might have been born here. But you're not talking about people who came here to spread havoc.

 

[Armoured]

How much intimidation influence do Mexican drug cartels have on those people in charge of those Mexican construction companies?

I'm sure either intimidation or bribery would be equally effective. It's not like the Mexican contractors will have any stake in making the wall an effective barrier.

Heck, I'm sure you could get contractors to build tunnels or other breach mechanisms willingly and for free if you find ones with the right motivations, like, say, family in the US, or simply one's who find the wall an insult.

 

[blackribbon]

So you propose a suspension of due process for suspected illegals? I imagine that will make life difficult for Hispanic American citizens, but whether that's a bug or a feature...?

Actually, I propose protecting our borders so they don't get tied up in our legal system. It should be no problem to any citizen of the US regardless of their heritage. It would probably make it easier for the legal immigrants or citizens because we could assume that they are here legally and stop treating them like they are suspect.

 

[blackribbon]

The sad thing? The teens you're speaking about people were US citizens since they might have been born here. But you're not talking about people who came here to spread havoc.

Um...no they weren't born here...they were brought here illegally with their parents....

now the children of the teens, they would have been legal citizens and were too young to cause havo.

 

[Radrook]

I lived in a neighborhood that went from being very family oriented to being a danger gang area and even qualified for a special gang task force. The parents came over to work and for opportunities but they were gone so much and the teens just joined gangs and terrorized the neighborhood. When my grocery store circulars no longer came in English, I gave up and moved.

Most Anglo Americans started to move out of Dade County Miami Florida when the first Cuban immigrants arrived and they were hardworking professionals who turned Miami into a prosperous City. The local Anglo American complaint was that they simply didn't like Cuban Americans because Cuban Americans spoke Spanish too much.

 

[Radrook]

I'm sure either intimidation or bribery would be equally effective. It's not like the Mexican contractors will have any stake in making the wall an effective barrier.

Heck, I'm sure you could get contractors to build tunnels or other breach mechanisms willingly and for free if you find ones with the right motivations, like, say, family in the US, or simply one's who find the wall an insult.

Good points. The wall might very well be perceived as an insult especially since the geographical areas involved were once Mexico proper and viewed as having been stolen from Mexico by force of arms. So maybe Trump is making a big mistake in planning to hire such firms. A rather naïve perspective. IMHO.

 

[lasthero]

I'm curious - do people who support the wall think that Mexicans are just going to walk to it, see it, then give up and go back home?

 

[Bob S]

Who's coming here to create havoc? There are millions of them here now, where's all the havoc? Seems like they'd be better at it.

Maybe if you would open your eyes and ears you would see the havoc. Even if we could have saved one that has been killed or maimed by illegals it would be worth spending the time and funds to keep that one person out of the country. Are you one to tell us that life is not worth spending any amount to save it?

No, most people come here because they are fleeing where they were and there are jobs here that will take them. Maybe some come here to be jerks, fine, but not millions, probably not even half a percent of them come here to do that. Take away the jobs, the people will not come here.

Tell the states that really are trying to deal with the problems illegals are causing. Those that sit in ivory palaces....

Then we could work at finding a way to help the people here become legal citizens, since deporting millions of people is also a waste of money.

Had our previous politicians acted instead of just mouthing we wouldn't have to deal with all the deportations of those who have flooded our borders illegally. Get real friend, our politicians have not done anything to help our country and guess who has been in control most of the time. It is time to see if it can now turn around. It will if we work together and quit trying to be everything to every other nation.

 

[Armoured]

Where are your statistics that document this?

Obama Has Deported More People Than Any Other President

In 2013, a Department of Homeland Security report estimating the size of the illegal immigrant population living in the U.S. said, "In summary, an estimated 11.4 million unauthorized immigrants were living in the United States in January 2012 compared to 11.5 million in January 2011. These results suggest little to no change in the unauthorized immigrant population from 2011 to 2012."[9] Additionally, 11.3 million unauthorized immigrants were estimated to be living in the U.S. in 2014.[10]

So under you current system, illegal immigration from Mexico already seems pretty well contained, with a static total number of illegal residents as is. So 17 billion dollars for a wall that won't actually practically achieve much seems like it could be better spent on, say, the programs that are already shown to be efficacious.