4 Day Work Week

[Tallguy88]

Basically, it's a pipe dream. It would be nice, but it couldn't be done with the government forcing it without hurting the working class. It happens every time they tinker, like with forcing healthcare coverage for people working 32+ hours a week. The companies solution? Keep as many people under 32 hours as possible. Same thing will happen with this.

 

[Nithavela]

Basically, it's a pipe dream. It would be nice, but it couldn't be done with the government forcing it without hurting the working class. It happens every time they tinker, like with forcing healthcare coverage for people working 32+ hours a week. The companies solution? Keep as many people under 32 hours as possible. Same thing will happen with this.

During the industrial revolution, people worked 12-14 hours per day, and the wages were such that anyone working less couldn't live with them.

 

[bhsmte]

Is there any reason to, in principle, oppose a 4 day work week?

People didn't always used to work 5 days a week. It used to be 6 or 7 days and perhaps 14 hours a day.

Progress has brought freedom, and why should that stop?

Why not pursue a 4 day work week?

The amount of days we work seems arbitrary.

I guess it would depend, on how much work organizations that employee people, want or need to get done to stay competitive as a business.

 

[Strathos]

It depends what your job is.

 

[seashale76]

Many places have 4 day work weeks, 4 ten hour shifts is a full time job. Some hospitals are on this schedule.

More hospitals have three day work weeks with twelve hour shifts though. That is my current reality.

 

[Paradoxum]

Many people work multiple jobs to make bank. They work 60-80 hours a week and get no overtime pay or benefits because each job keeps them just below the threshold where they would have to pay benefits or overtime. The companies will find ways around the government mandate, and that usually results in the workers getting the shaft.

Maybe that isn't something we should just accept as 'That's just thing are'?

 

[Paradoxum]

If it's voluntarily agreed to by the workers and the company, then great. If it's forced by the government, then it will likely result in hours being cut and jobs being reduced so the companies won't lose profit, which ultimately will hurt the workers.

Hours being cut is the point.

If a company needs people do to a job, will they cut them and hurt themselves because they can't supply a demand?

 

[bhsmte]

More hospitals have three day work weeks with twelve hour shifts though. That is my current reality.

Indeed and that works best with hospitals needing 24 hour coverage and only needing 2 shifts per day to cover that.

 

[Paradoxum]

Most people don't work under contract, it's "at will employment", which means either party can end the employment at anytime.

People don't have times to be in work, and times to leave work, which they'd be fired for if they consistently didn't live up to?

 

[bhsmte]

People don't have times to be in work, and times to leave work, which they'd be fired for if they consistently didn't live up to?

Of course, but that wasn't what he was referring to. In the US, most states are at will employment, which means the employer can fire you at anytime. Now, if they fire you for reasons that violate the law, then that is a different story.

 

[Paradoxum]

There's lots of flexibility in the workplace now. I don't see the problem.

I'm talking about less days and hours, not the same flexible hours.

The problem is work is a waste of time, if you believe life is about more than money.

Happiness is a state of mind. People doing the same job aren't all unhappy, which means something else is at play in their minds. If someone is unhappy they should do something else.

Maybe they should wish on a star and get their perfect job?

It's not about people being unhappy, it's that peoples lives could be better. The economy should work for everyone, not just the richest. All should benefit similarly from growth, not only the rich. And maybe there's more to life than money.

 

[Paradoxum]

It has to do with self-worth in that people
are happier and healthier if they are busy helping others and feeling
productive and empowered. Without that people become confused
or even violent.

It seems to me that people are pretty happy at the weekend, and on holiday, but can feel pretty crap when contemplating going to work.

Personally, your view doesn't hold up. When I was unemployed I was pretty happy with my state. My problem was money, not enjoyment in recreational time.

You can have purpose and an enjoyable life without the threat of poverty.

 

[bhsmte]

It seems to me that people are pretty happy at the weekend, and on holiday, but can feel pretty crap when contemplating going to work.

Personally, your view doesn't hold up. When I was unemployed I was pretty happy with my state. My problem was money, not enjoyment in recreational time.

You can have purpose and an enjoyable life without the threat of poverty.

I have been working in a professional field for about 25 years and have known a lot of people including myself once or twice that have had their jobs eliminated for business reasons. I can tell you without question, that everyone I have known (myself included) felt an empty void when you are not employed for longer than a few weeks. Psychological studies of bigger groups, have also supported the importance of working to one's overall well being and mental state.

 

[Paradoxum]

If I wouldn't be losing any money or benefits, but I would be gaining a day off, then absolutely I'd take it. However, that's not free to the people who pay me, and one needs to look at sustainability. My workplace is 24/7, needing a certain amount of coverage each day. Working four days rather than five means more people need to be hired to provide ample coverage. Since this isn't a job that just anybody can do, they need to find qualified people, then train them up (initial training is a month, but there's still a lot of learning to do in the first year). There are costs associated with that - training, pay, benefits, etc. So even if everyone hired in were to fully make up for that (eventually), it's more overhead for roughly the same amount of productivity. So from the perspective of the people that pay me, I don't see how it makes sense. If it doesn't make sense to them, then I'm looking out the corner of my eye for changes that will negatively impact me.

Well why not just work 6 or 7 days then? I bet enslaving people might increase profit? Is it okay to bow down to companies on the shrine of profit?

Why have works hours and days decreased, but now they can't?

Maybe the company should be forced to a hit in profits, because the economy should work for the people? Again, why can the company afford for people to work 5 days, rather 6? But magically can't do 4?

 

[bhsmte]

Well why not just work 6 or 7 days then? I bet enslaving people might increase profit? Is it okay to bow down to companies on the shrine of profit?

Why have works hours and days decreased, but now they can't?

Maybe the company should be forced to a hit in profits, because the economy should work for the people? Again, why can the company afford for people to work 5 days, rather 6? But magically can't do 4?

You are starting to not make sense.

 

[Paradoxum]

Many people do.

Many because of poor wages, even though productivity has increased.

Many people do work 6 days per week in order to support themselves. People work 5 days because they're fortunate to have an employment situation that affords them this opportunity.

Working 5 days isn't fortunate, working 6 days is exploitation.

When are you thinking of?

When people might have worked 12 or 16 hours a day.

Probably many reasons. Maybe the working class is exploited.

I agree, and that's my point. The money exists, it just isn't going to the people do do most of the work.

 

[Paradoxum]

Industrialization of the "developing world" is the result Para...not the cause. Think of it this way...

You can open a factory in the U.K., and given your operating costs, payroll costs, etc...you can expect that factory to generate 1 million in profit yearly. Or...

You can open the same factory in Malaysia...and because of their relative lack of labor and safety regulations, you can do it for half the price. Also, since you can pay the employees pennies, you'll make 5 million profit every year.

That's why industrialization happened in developing nations.

This was my point. Industrialization of the developed world means loss of industrial jobs in the UK because it's cheaper to produce elsewhere.

I'm not sure why you thought I was disagreeing with that.

Those are all service sector jobs though...aren't they? I'm not saying that the U.K. doesn't make anything, but you switched to a mainly service/banking sector economy didn't you?

I believe so. I'm not sure what your point is though.

 

[Paradoxum]

You are starting to not make sense.

Explain how? Your statement seems like a nice way to avoid meaningful disagreement with me.

 

[Paradoxum]

I have been working in a professional field for about 25 years and have known a lot of people including myself once or twice that have had their jobs eliminated for business reasons. I can tell you without question, that everyone I have known (myself included) felt an empty void when you are not employed for longer than a few weeks. Psychological studies of bigger groups, have also supported the importance of working to one's overall well being and mental state.

Because you feel you need to be working, and you kind of have to be working. ie: There's an expectation in yourself and others that you should be working, but you aren't living up to it.

If there's no expectation, there's no stress. If you look at those who have time off over summer (ie: students) I'd suspect they like the time off because they aren't expected to be in full employment by society.

Anyway, I'm saying less work days and hours, not no work. No work over weeks is totally different.

 

[Paradoxum]

Basically, it's a pipe dream. It would be nice, but it couldn't be done with the government forcing it without hurting the working class. It happens every time they tinker, like with forcing healthcare coverage for people working 32+ hours a week. The companies solution? Keep as many people under 32 hours as possible. Same thing will happen with this.

We have national health service for all in the UK. A mix of capitalism and socialism works best, and socialism can be more efficient (see UK and US cost on health).