The 144,000 represents all of God's people. You say it's a flawed theory but did John see 144,000? NO. He heard the NUMBER. Why didn't he see them? Because what he saw was what the 144,000 is...all of God's redeemed!!!
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Because the 144,000 are not in heaven, hence he wouldnt have seen them there..
He heard the number of those sealed on earth.
Rev 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
He saw the multitude in heaven.
Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
You dont have a leg to stand on friend, you are clearly, and objectively wrong here..
Why not admit it? Its rather unbecoming to pretend and be counted a fool if you hold this position any longer.
I doubt you will reply to this... Ive got you in checkmate with these verses.
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SG9
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IMO, He couldn't see the figure of the 144k in the same sense as the multitude, reason being that the number, 144,000 is symbolic. What John couldn't see was a literal head-count in the image of the number. Thanks
*To further define this flipping in imagery, John mentions that the multitude was innumerable but without any form of identity while he specifies an image of definite identity of the 144k. In this case, this is emphasizing the identity as very significant as in the Sign or Seal of God's identity and not actual numbers. On the other hand, we have the multitude that is not numbered but is of a great number in quantity, and not identification, reason being they are merely a multitude of the general population of the kingdom that have no authoritative position to rule except for the 144k group. Thanks
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IMO, He couldn't see the figure of the 144k in the same sense as the multitude, reason being that the number, 144,000 is symbolic. What John couldn't see was a literal head-count in the image of the number. Thanks
Huh?
John literally heard 144,000 were sealed...
He saw the multitude in heaven..
Does logic evade this forum at every turn?
Symbolic of what?
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IMO, He couldn't see the figure of the 144k in the same sense as the multitude, reason being that the number, 144,000 is symbolic. What John couldn't see was a literal head-count in the image of the number. Thanks
How is this symbolic?
He heard the number of those sealed on earth.
Rev 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
He saw the multitude in heaven.
Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
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Rev 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
How is this not clear?
Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
All nations and tribes of Israel are not the same thing...
Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
How is this not clear?
Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
All nations and tribes of Israel are not the same thing...
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No actually what you have is inattentiveness to scriptures as well as what John is trying to tell you.
*First John hears that nothing is to hurt the earth until God seals His servants. How many times in the NT does Paul tell us we are sealed by the Holy Spirit? A WHOLE LOT!!! Then notice when this is said...no number is given.
*When the number is given...it's 144,000 who are sealed of each tribe. Now...when you know you become Abraham's seed spiritually because of Christ this isn't hard. Your circumcision is that of the heart. Paul calls all believers the "TRUE CIRCUMCISION". (I hope that sinks in)
*John never sees 144,000...HE HEARS it...they are SEALED by the Holy Spirit.
*When John does look...that when he see who the 144,000 are...no where are they called a remnant.
This is why you can't hear me...you won't correlate scripture.
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You have nothing, I just proved it.. You can skate around the fact all you want..
Everyone here can see you are clearly misunderstanding..
For the class, yet again..
Rev 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
How is this not clear?
Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
All nations and tribes of Israel are not the same thing...
There is no point in even mentioning the 12 tribes if what you say is true, its moot.
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SG9
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I edited my post before reading this and you missed the edit, so please read again for definition. Thanks
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Please read my post again and think on it, thanks
But your post doesnt make any sense, or provide any insight..
Why not just tell me what your opinion is?
What could John possibly be seeing as a symbol when hes already in heaven..
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Ebedmelech, did you really just log off bro??
You got caught trying to take away from Revelation and make it say something its not and you dipped??
I believe this thread has gone full on "intellectually challenged"
You got caught trying to take away from Revelation and make it say something its not and you dipped??
I believe this thread has gone full on "intellectually challenged"
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SG9
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The multitude are those taken captive by God, those who were once free and running amok are taken captive, and those in captivity are freed. The multitude were once exalted when God was trodden under their feet, but God comes to exalt those who were brought down and scorned by the multitude which are become or seen as dogs outside of the temple. God will be running a series of dog kennels, so to speak.
The multitude are servants to God's chosen, read the scriptures with an open mind and remove your shades first. Thanks
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Actually again you just miss what scripture teaches...very basic stuff. You won't acknowledge the teaching of who the true Jew is in the NT so you'll NEVER get this until you do.
Remember Paul saying in Romans 9 they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel?
That is the spiritual reality. You won't accept it. You won't accept that you are Abraham's seed and an heir according to the promise so you're blind to what John means.
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iamlamad
Lamad
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Do you EVER think before you write? Why do you CHANGE what is clearly written? God TOLD us who they are, 12000 ISRAELITES or sons of Jacob from each tribe. They represent just what God said: FIRSTFRUITS to God. They are NOT the church. They are NOT Gentiles.
AT the midpoint of the week, they are RAPTURED into heaven - REDEEMED from the earth. This is written. It is truth.
The great multitude has NOTHING TO DO with the 144,00 except it is in the same chapter. The great multitude is the just raptured church.
LAMAD
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