3rd Temple coming soon..

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keras said in post 980:

The NT does not abrogate the OT. Say all you like that the Land has no significance, but it still remains, it is still viewed by most of the world as a special place. Hardly a day goes by without some mention of it in the news, it is obviously the flashpoint for another war.

That's right.

And, most importantly, God himself still has regard for the land of Israel (Deuteronomy 32:43,49b), and Jerusalem especially (Isaiah 62:6-7, Psalms 122:6). Even during the future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:5-18), Jerusalem will still be considered by God to be the holy city (Revelation 11:2, Luke 21:24), the holy mountain (Daniel 11:45, Daniel 9:16). And after the tribulation, at Jesus' 2nd coming, it will be to the Mount of Olives just east of the walled Old City of Jerusalem that Jesus will descend (Zechariah 14:4-21, Acts 1:11-12). And then Jesus will rule the whole earth from the earthly Jerusalem during the millennium (Micah 4:1-4, Zechariah 14:8-11,16-21, Revelation 20:4-6).

Also, if even those who are "strangers" in Israel can inherit the land of Israel (Ezekiel 47:21-23), then certainly believing Gentiles, who are "no more strangers" to Israel (Ephesians 2:12,19), will inherit the land of Israel, during the future millennium of Revelation 20:4-6. And they will inherit the land and all the other promises given to Israel (Ephesians 2:12,19, Ephesians 3:6, Galatians 3:29, Genesis 12:7) along with all the elect Jews who have ever been saved in the past, or who will get saved in our future, including at Jesus' 2nd coming (Zechariah 12:10-14, Romans 11:25-32).

keras said in post 980:

The NT does not abrogate the OT. Say all you like that the Land has no significance, but it still remains, it is still viewed by most of the world as a special place. Hardly a day goes by without some mention of it in the news, it is obviously the flashpoint for another war.

Regarding "it is obviously the flashpoint for another war", that's right. For the Antichrist may not even appear on the world stage until after the horrible, future, tribulation-starting war of Revelation 6:4-8 and Daniel 11:15-17 has resulted in the total defeat and occupation of Israel, and Egypt, and the death of 1/4 of the world. It could be this war which will help open the way for the Antichrist to arise on the world stage as a great man of peace and antitypically fulfill the "vile" person of Daniel 11:21-45.

One way this war could happen is the U.S. could build up the Iraqi Army until it is huge enough and well-equipped enough to serve as a proxy army, for the U.S. and Israel, for an all-out ground invasion of Iran, in order to end Iran's nuclear weapons program and extremist regime. As part of the buildup of the Iraqi Army, the U.S. could reinstall some of the former Baathist military hierarchy to run the Iraqi Army more efficiently and ruthlessly. And if the current Shiite-dominated government of Iraq balks at any invasion of fellow-Shiite Iran, this could lead the CIA, the Mossad, and possibly also (Sunni Arab) Saudi Intelligence, to bring about a Baathist coup d'etat in Iraq. For all 3 of these intelligence agencies would love for Iraq to attack their common mortal foe Iran, and the Iraqi Baathists could agree to do this, for they see non-Arab Iran as a great enemy of Arab autonomy.

To help get the Iraqi masses and the world behind the idea of an all-out Iraqi invasion of Iran, false-flag operations could be managed by the CIA and the Mossad by which it will be made to seem that (non-Arab, Persian) Iran is attacking the Iraqi Sunni Arabs and their little children terroristically with "dirty bombs" made from Iranian-enriched uranium, so that the Iraqi Arab masses will become enraged and begin to call for all-out retaliation against (what they could call) "the vile Persians". And the world could see an Iraqi invasion of Iran as being completely justified by self-defense.

But then, right when Iraq is all ready to invade Iran, the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel (who by that time could be led by a great miracle-working false Messiah: cf. Matthew 24:24) could destroy the Muslim Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque (the 3rd-holiest sites in Islam) on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, to prepare the site for the building of a 3rd Jewish temple (Revelation 11:1-2, Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31,36; 2 Thessalonians 2:4). This could so enrage Muslims worldwide, including the (Muslim) Iraqi Army, that the Iraqi Baathist Generals could see it as a perfect excuse to abandon the plan to invade huge Iran, and instead (pretending that they are doing so in the name of Islam) turn and send their vast army against the little territory of Israel, completely defeating and occupying it (Daniel 11:15-17; in verse 17, the original Hebrew word translated as "daughter" is "bath").

But this wouldn't be the ultimate reason for the Baathist attack, which could continue on south to also defeat and occupy Egypt (Daniel 11:15). For Egypt is ruled by the U.S.-supported Egyptian Army, which the Baathists could see as being a puppet of the U.S., just as they could see Israel as being a colony of the U.S. Baathism's ultimate aim is to unite all Arab lands from Oman to Morocco into one massive, powerful United Arab States free of all foreign hegemony.

The all-out Iraqi attack on Israel could be joined by the entire (Baathist) Syrian Army (with all of its missiles, many tipped with nerve agents), as well as by all of Iran's long-range missiles and all of Hezbollah's and Hamas' missiles and guerrillas. Israel could find itself suddenly attacked from 3 directions at the same time, with tens of thousands of missiles raining down on its cities and military bases, and tens of thousands of Iraqi tanks (meant to defeat and occupy huge Iran) pouring across its borders. As Israel starts to see its little sliver of land completely overrun, and sees that its total defeat and occupation is imminent and assured, in retaliation it could drop nuclear bombs on Baghdad, Damascus (Isaiah 17:1), Tehran, and other major cities of Iraq, Syria, and Iran.

There could be so many nuclear explosions sending so much radioactive dust and ash so high into the atmosphere that it could be blown eastward and fall on hugely-populated South Asia, ruining so many crop fields and immune systems there with radiation that 1/4 of the world's population could end up dying from the war and its aftermath of famines and epidemics. This could fulfill the horrible war which will begin the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, which war will, with its aftermath of famines and epidemics, end up killing 1/4 of the world (Revelation 6:4-8). The "great sword" of this war (Revelation 6:4) could be Israel's nuclear weapons. This war could be blamed not only on the religious fundamentalism of Islam and Judaism, but also on religious fundamentalism in general, and so could lead to a worldwide crusade against all forms of religious fundamentalism, including Christian fundamentalism, i.e. the (correct) idea that the Bible is wholly true (2 Timothy 3:16, Matthew 4:4) and that all other religions are cursed (Galatians 1:8-9, John 14:6, John 3:36, Acts 4:12).

After an Iraqi Baathist General who could lead the defeat and occupation of Israel and Egypt mysteriously disappears from the scene (Daniel 11:19), the Antichrist, who could be an Arab, could arise peacefully out of Lebanon (from the modern city of Tyre: Ezekiel 28:2; cf. 2 Thessalonians 2:4), and he could take up the mantle of Baathism and vow to (in his words) "complete the great work of Arab liberation and unification". The first thing the Antichrist could do once he is given control (Daniel 11:21) of a Baathist confederation of Iraq, Syria, Egypt, and a "United Palestine" (i.e. a defeated and occupied Israel), is to perform a small and localized attack against an army of ultra-Orthodox Jews holed up in the walled Old City of Jerusalem and led by an ultra-Orthodox Jewish false Messiah (Daniel 9:26a, Daniel 11:22).

These ultra-Orthodox Jews could have managed to hold off the first Baathist attack even as it overran the rest of Israel, because the walled Old City of Jerusalem is considered holy to the Muslims, and so it is not to be bombarded or destroyed. The Antichrist could manage in some way to take the Old City without doing it much harm (such as by incapacitating its Jewish defenders with huge clouds of tear gas while tens of thousands of Arab soldiers wearing gas masks take control of the city by climbing over its walls on thousands of tall ladders).

But then, instead of executing all the ultra-Orthodox Jews and their false Messiah, the Antichrist will do an amazing thing. He will "cut" a peace treaty with them and their false Messiah (Daniel 9:26a, Daniel 11:23), permitting them to keep a 3rd Jewish temple (Revelation 11:1) which they will have built on the Temple Mount in the Old City of Jerusalem, and to keep control of the Old City, for at least 7 more years (Daniel 9:27a), so long as they give up the outer court of the temple (Revelation 11:2a) to the Muslims so that the Muslims can rebuild the Al Aqsa Mosque on the southern end of the Temple Mount and resume worship there. By this peace treaty, the Antichrist could present himself to the world as (in his words): "A reasonable man, a man of peace. I am no Hitler. I do not desire a second Holocaust. I am willing to give the religious Jews in the Old City seven years to show that they are willing to live peacefully with others, that they are different than the Zionist Jews who have just destroyed the world with their nuclear weapons".

And if the Antichrist gets flak from his fellow Baathists for letting the ultra-Orthodox Jews keep the Old City of Jerusalem, he could explain to them privately that (in his words) "It is all a temporary ruse, meant to keep world opinion off guard while we consolidate our position". The Baathists could consolidate their position by becoming so well dug-in, and so well equipped and advised militarily by the Russians (in the name of "Arab self-determination"), that a U.S. counter-attack to "restore" (i.e. to take back) Israel and Egypt could fail, and leave the Baathists in control, and in a position to extend their power over all the rest of the Arab nations. For if the Baathists defeat Israel, they will be hailed by the Arab masses as magnificent heroes, so that the Baathists could have no problem persuading the Arab masses to support them. And the Baathists could justify their defeat of the Egyptian military regime, and then their subsequent defeat of other regimes such as in Jordan, by railing against them as being (what they could call):

"These vile cronies of the Americans. These cronies pretended to be for the Arab people while in fact they were taking American bribes in the billions, completely selling out our Palestinian brothers to the endless cruelties of the Zionist occupation, and keeping you, the great majority of the Arab people, in poverty. These cronies, like the Zionists themselves, were the American bulwarks against our glorious Arab unification and return to world power. Join now with us, the Baathists, that we might bring about the long-awaited Arab Renaissance, the long-awaited Arab Resurrection [the Arab word 'Baath' can mean 'Renaissance' and 'Resurrection'], that we Arabs might all rise up together and unite, from Oman to Morocco, into one great United Arab States, one great Arab Empire, shaking off completely all the shackles of the West, placed upon us so long ago, and return to our former glory as we had during the Middle Ages, when we were free and far superior to the West".

The Baathists could also rail against the kings and sheikhs of the Arab Gulf States for (in their words) "hoarding the huge oil wealth given by Allah to all the Arabs, and keeping the Arab masses in poverty and subjugation to Western interests". The Baathists are socialist, and so could call for the distribution of the Arab oil wealth to the Arab masses (Daniel 11:24). In this way, and by their defeat of Israel, the Baathists could easily turn the masses to their side in every Arab nation.

During the first few years of the 7-year peace treaty referred to earlier, the Antichrist could employ Baathism as the means by which he will gradually and peacefully put together a United Arab States, or Arab Union, stretching from Oman to Morocco. Once he has accomplished this, he could then begin to downplay Baathism and start speaking of "world peace and the unity of mankind". He could convince an oil-thirsty European Union to let the oil-rich Arab Union join it, thereby forming a massive Mediterranean Union, which he could manage to peacefully gain control of and use as his base of power to eventually exert his hegemony over the entire earth (Revelation 13:7b).

Then, only some 3.5 years after making the peace treaty, the Antichrist will break it, attack the 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem, stop the daily Mosaic animal sacrifices offered in front of it, and sit (at least one time) in the temple and proclaim himself God (Daniel 11:31,36, Matthew 24:15; 2 Thessalonians 2:4). He will then rule the whole earth by the power of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon: Revelation 12:9) for 3.5 literal years (Revelation 13:4-18, Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7, Revelation 12:14), or 1,260 literal days (Revelation 12:6). The return of Jesus Christ from heaven (Matthew 24:30, Revelation 19:11-21; 1 Thessalonians 4:16) may not occur immediately after the 1,260 days of the Antichrist's worldwide reign are over, but could occur 75 days later, on the 1,335th day after the Antichrist and his followers set up the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the 3rd Jewish temple (Daniel 12:11-12, Daniel 11:31, Matthew 24:15). The 75 days could be taken up by the vials of God's wrath which will be poured out on the Antichrist's worshippers (Revelation 16).

When Jesus returns, he will completely defeat the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) (Revelation 19:20; 2 Thessalonians 2:8-9), and he will have Satan bound in the bottomless pit (Revelation 20:1-3). Then the returned Jesus and the bodily resurrected church (including those in the church who had been beheaded by the Antichrist) will reign physically on the earth for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 66:3-4, Psalms 72:8-11, Zechariah 14:8-21).
 
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shturt678s

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That's right.

And, most importantly, God himself still has regard for the land of Israel (Deuteronomy 32:43,49b), and Jerusalem especially (Isaiah 62:6-7, Psalms 122:6). Even during the future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:5-18), Jerusalem will still be considered by God to be the holy city (Revelation 11:2, Luke 21:24), the holy mountain (Daniel 11:45, Daniel 9:16). And after the tribulation, at Jesus' 2nd coming, it will be to the Mount of Olives just east of the walled Old City of Jerusalem that Jesus will descend (Zechariah 14:4-21, Acts 1:11-12). And then Jesus will rule the whole earth from the earthly Jerusalem during the millennium (Micah 4:1-4, Zechariah 14:8-11,16-21, Revelation 20:4-6).

<snip> only for clarity

As far as the land of Israel and the Jews, they compelled God to break them off as branches (Rom.11 latter part) thus the 1948 bankster's birthed nation out of the equation except for the Christians over there which includes a remnant of the broken branches of course.

The "future literal 3.5 worldwide reign" has about came to pass in these last days, ie, the signified 3.5 began at 70 A.D. (Lk.21:24) and ends at Rev.20:9, 10.

Old Jack's view

btw we are right at Rev.20:7 in the churches, ie, astonishing and appalling :o
 
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iamlamad

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<snip> only for clarity

As far as the land of Israel and the Jews, they compelled God to break them off as branches (Rom.11 latter part) thus the 1948 bankster's birthed nation out of the equation except for the Christians over there which includes a remnant of the broken branches of course.

The "future literal 3.5 worldwide reign" has about came to pass in these last days, ie, the signified 3.5 began at 70 A.D. (Lk.21:24) and ends at Rev.20:9, 10.

Old Jack's view

btw we are right at Rev.20:7 in the churches, ie, astonishing and appalling :o

MYTH! Sorry, Jack, but you are as far off from truth as East is from West. However, there still remains hope: if you give up this history nonsense, and recognize that most of Revelation is for the FUTURE, then the twain will meet (east will meet west) and I will not have to write "MYTH" for each of your posts.

Jack, if you take John seriously, and believe what he wrote, you KNOW there has never been a short period of time (all 6 trumpets must fit into 1260 days) where 1/3 of earth's population has been decimated. It simply has never happened. Neither has there been ANY time in history that flying little Beasties bite like lions and sting like scorpions over a 5 month's time. You must resort to changing the meaning to fit your theory, rather than just believe what is written. These Beasties come from the bottomless pit. They have never been released yet. Jack, these things are FUTURE.

We are right now waiting for the FINAL church age martyr, as per the 5th seal. That seal has not ended, because the church age has not ended. But it WILL END when the door closes after Paul's rapture.

LAMAD
 
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iamlamad

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The church is tho temple! Remember? We're "living stones" being "built up into a spiritual house"!

WAKE UP! Take off your preconceived glasses just long enough to answer ONE QUESTION:

Did the church exist one day after Pentecost? You KNOW it did!

WAS the temple in Jerusalem still standing one week after Pentecost? YOU KNOW IT WAS!

Nuff said - case closed: there can exist at the same time, THE CHURCH, the body of Christ on earth, and at the same time a PHYSICAL TEMPLE.

LAMAD
 
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iamlamad

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Who says that is either literal or future? A new temple has come. The letter of Hebrews has been written. You can't ignore revelation that supercedes.

Exactly! Paul wrote that a NEW TEMPLE will come into existence,for the man of sin to ENTER and declare that he is GOD.

John backs Paul up by showing Jesus sending John to measure the new temple, count the worshipers inside, and ignore the outer court. This information SUPERCEDES what we know happened in 70 AD when the temple was destroyed.

LAMAD
 
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shturt678s

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MYTH! Sorry, Jack, but you are as far off from truth as East is from West. However, there still remains hope: if you give up this history nonsense, and recognize that most of Revelation is for the FUTURE, then the twain will meet (east will meet west) and I will not have to write "MYTH" for each of your posts.

Jack, if you take John seriously, and believe what he wrote, you KNOW there has never been a short period of time (all 6 trumpets must fit into 1260 days) where 1/3 of earth's population has been decimated. It simply has never happened. Neither has there been ANY time in history that flying little Beasties bite like lions and sting like scorpions over a 5 month's time. You must resort to changing the meaning to fit your theory, rather than just believe what is written. These Beasties come from the bottomless pit. They have never been released yet. Jack, these things are FUTURE.

We are right now waiting for the FINAL church age martyr, as per the 5th seal. That seal has not ended, because the church age has not ended. But it WILL END when the door closes after Paul's rapture.

LAMAD

Just a small head's up, ie, Rev.'s 5th and 6th Trumpets are about the end of their blasting away. Simply "delusions" and pictured as hellish being IIThess.2:11, 12 expounded.

Old Jack
 
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iamlamad

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Just a small head's up, ie, Rev.'s 5th and 6th Trumpets are about the end of their blasting away. Simply "delusions" and pictured as hellish being IIThess.2:11, 12 expounded.

Old Jack

Your head is in the proverbial sand. These angles sound their trumpet ONCE. That is all that is needed. You will not be one of the sealed, so you will find out first hand if these little beasties that sting like scorpions were symbolic. You will find out they are VERY REAL.

LAMAD
 
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shturt678s said in post 982:

As far as the land of Israel and the Jews, they compelled God to break them off as branches (Rom.11 latter part) thus the 1948 bankster's birthed nation out of the equation except for the Christians over there which includes a remnant of the broken branches of course.

The rebudding of the fig tree (Matthew 24:32) can refer to the 1948 reestablishment of Israel, just as Jesus' cursing of the fig tree (Matthew 21:19) was symbolic of his curse on unbelieving, Old Covenant Israel (Matthew 21:43). The Israel that was reestablished in 1948 is the same Old Covenant Israel that Jesus cursed at his first coming. For it still rejects Jesus and still considers itself to be under the Old Covenant. This Israel merely "putting forth leaves" again (Matthew 24:32) in 1948 was nothing more than a restoration to what the fig tree in Matthew 21:19,43 had been before it was cursed forever by Jesus and then destroyed in 70 AD: a tree with leaves, but without any fruit. And the unbelieving, Old Covenant Israel that was reestablished in 1948 may never bear fruit. For it could be destroyed before Jesus' 2nd coming, during a future war, by a Baathist army, just as it had been destroyed in 70 AD by a Roman-empire army.

shturt678s said in post 982:

The "future literal 3.5 worldwide reign" has about came to pass in these last days, ie, the signified 3.5 began at 70 A.D. (Lk.21:24) and ends at Rev.20:9, 10.

Regarding the 42 months, 1,260 days, and "a time, and times, and half a time", they are all the same time period in the prophecies of Revelation 13:5, Revelation 11:2-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Daniel 7:25, and Daniel 12:7. They will be 1,260 literal days, just as, for example, the 3 days in the fulfilled prophecies of Luke 9:22 and Luke 18:33 were literal days, and the 3 days in the fulfilled prophecies of Genesis 40:13 and Genesis 40:19 were literal days, and the 70 years in the fulfilled prophecy of Jeremiah 25:11-12 (Daniel 9:2) were literal years (Zechariah 7:5).

The literal 1,260-day time period will be the time of the Antichrist's Luciferian/Satanic worldwide reign of terror (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9), which time period is shown from 4 different angles in Revelation chapters 11 to 14 (Revelation 11:2b-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5,7, Revelation 14:9-13). The myriad details of these chapters were never fulfilled during a past time period of 1,260 years, as historicism mistakenly claims. But these details must be fulfilled (Revelation 1:1). So they will be fulfilled in our future, after the also-never-fulfilled details of Revelation chapters 6 to 10 are fulfilled in our future.

shturt678s said in post 982:

The "future literal 3.5 worldwide reign" has about came to pass in these last days, ie, the signified 3.5 began at 70 A.D. (Lk.21:24) and ends at Rev.20:9, 10.

The treading down of Jerusalem during the "times" (Greek: kairos, G2540) of the Gentiles in Luke 21:24 can refer to what will occur during certain years in our future, the same "times" (kairos, G2540), or years, referred to in Revelation 12:14b, during which the Gentiles will tread down Jerusalem as part of the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 11:2b, Revelation 13:5-18), during the 2nd half of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24.

Similarly, when Paul says "until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in" (Romans 11:25), he means until a full number of genetic Gentile individuals have become saved, which won't happen until near the end of the tribulation, right before Jesus' 2nd coming (Romans 11:26).

Immediately after the tribulation, at Jesus' 2nd coming (Matthew 24:29-30), all the still-living unsaved elect genetic Jews will become saved (Romans 11:26-28) by God's grace when they see the returned Jesus in person and believe in him (Zechariah 12:10-14). And so they will all become part of the church at that time, just as when genetic Jews believe in Jesus now they become part of the church, for there are now no believers outside of the church (Ephesians 4:4-6).

And the genetic Jews who will become believers at the 2nd coming will all become part of the church by receiving some measure of the Holy Spirit, who is "the spirit of grace and of supplications" in Zechariah 12:10 (Hebrews 10:29c, Romans 8:26), just as genetic Jewish believers today become part of the church by receiving some measure of the Holy Spirit. For it is by receiving some measure of the Holy Spirit that both genetic Jewish believers and genetic Gentile believers become part of the church (1 Corinthians 12:13).
 
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iamlamad

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Just a small head's up, ie, Rev.'s 5th and 6th Trumpets are about the end of their blasting away. Simply "delusions" and pictured as hellish being IIThess.2:11, 12 expounded.

Old Jack

Jack, did you ever stop to THINK about the 144,000 and the "two witnesses?"
WHY? What is the purpose?

It is really very simple: at Paul's pretrib rapture, the powerhouse of spirit filled people are taken out of the world, and God is suddenly left with NO WITNESS on earth. Those lukewarm and left behind would make very poor witnesses. Those left behind because of false beliefs, such as post trib rapture, would make poor witnesses.

Did you notice in Rev. 7 how John showed the sealing of the 144,000 BEFORE He saw the raptured church in heaven? I believe that was God's way of showing us He will ALWAYS be with witnesses. In reality, the rapture will happen at the 6th seal. But John does not see it, and only sees the Bride in heaven AFTER the sealing. The 144,000 are caught up to heaven at the midpoint of the week, but 3 1/2 days before the midpoint, the two witnesses show up, to testify for the last 1260 days.

God will not leave the earth without witnesses.

LAMAD
 
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shturt678s

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Jack, did you ever stop to THINK about the 144,000 and the "two witnesses?"
WHY? What is the purpose?

It is really very simple: at Paul's pretrib rapture, the powerhouse of spirit filled people are taken out of the world, and God is suddenly left with NO WITNESS on earth. Those lukewarm and left behind would make very poor witnesses. Those left behind because of false beliefs, such as post trib rapture, would make poor witnesses.

Did you notice in Rev. 7 how John showed the sealing of the 144,000 BEFORE He saw the raptured church in heaven? I believe that was God's way of showing us He will ALWAYS be with witnesses. In reality, the rapture will happen at the 6th seal. But John does not see it, and only sees the Bride in heaven AFTER the sealing. The 144,000 are caught up to heaven at the midpoint of the week, but 3 1/2 days before the midpoint, the two witnesses show up, to testify for the last 1260 days.

God will not leave the earth without witnesses.

LAMAD

The symbolized 144,000 are those of all time that are measured at Rev.11:1. :o

Don't you want to be measured ^_^

Old measuring Jack ;)
 
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shturt678s

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The rebudding of the fig tree (Matthew 24:32) can refer to the 1948 reestablishment of Israel,

This parable, Matt.24:32-44, refers to the "1" ending being near where we need to be ready for His "1" Coming. Forget about the bankster's 1948 nation of Israel except for the Christians over there.

just as Jesus' cursing of the fig tree (Matthew 21:19) was symbolic of his curse on unbelieving, Old Covenant Israel (Matthew 21:43). The Israel that was reestablished in 1948 is the same Old Covenant Israel that Jesus cursed at his first coming. For it still rejects Jesus and still considers itself to be under the Old Covenant. This Israel merely "putting forth leaves" again (Matthew 24:32) in 1948 was nothing more than a restoration to what the fig tree in Matthew 21:19,43 had been before it was cursed forever by Jesus and then destroyed in 70 AD: a tree with leaves, but without any fruit. And the unbelieving, Old Covenant Israel that was reestablished in 1948 may never bear fruit. For it could be destroyed before Jesus' 2nd coming, during a future war, by a Baathist army, just as it had been destroyed in 70 AD by a Roman-empire army.



Regarding the 42 months, 1,260 days, and "a time, and times, and half a time", they are all the same time period in the prophecies of Revelation 13:5, Revelation 11:2-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Daniel 7:25, and Daniel 12:7. They will be 1,260 literal days, just as, for example, the 3 days in the fulfilled prophecies of Luke 9:22 and Luke 18:33 were literal days, and the 3 days in the fulfilled prophecies of Genesis 40:13 and Genesis 40:19 were literal days, and the 70 years in the fulfilled prophecy of Jeremiah 25:11-12 (Daniel 9:2) were literal years (Zechariah 7:5).

The literal 1,260-day time period will be the time of the Antichrist's Luciferian/Satanic worldwide reign of terror (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9), which time period is shown from 4 different angles in Revelation chapters 11 to 14 (Revelation 11:2b-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5,7, Revelation 14:9-13). The myriad details of these chapters were never fulfilled during a past time period of 1,260 years, as historicism mistakenly claims. But these details must be fulfilled (Revelation 1:1). So they will be fulfilled in our future, after the also-never-fulfilled details of Revelation chapters 6 to 10 are fulfilled in our future.



The treading down of Jerusalem during the "times" (Greek: kairos, G2540) of the Gentiles in Luke 21:24 can refer to what will occur during certain years in our future, the same "times" (kairos, G2540), or years, referred to in Revelation 12:14b, during which the Gentiles will tread down Jerusalem as part of the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 11:2b, Revelation 13:5-18), during the 2nd half of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24.

Similarly, when Paul says "until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in" (Romans 11:25), he means until a full number of genetic Gentile individuals have become saved, which won't happen until near the end of the tribulation, right before Jesus' 2nd coming (Romans 11:26).

Immediately after the tribulation, at Jesus' 2nd coming (Matthew 24:29-30), all the still-living unsaved elect genetic Jews will become saved (Romans 11:26-28) by God's grace when they see the returned Jesus in person and believe in him (Zechariah 12:10-14). And so they will all become part of the church at that time, just as when genetic Jews believe in Jesus now they become part of the church, for there are now no believers outside of the church (Ephesians 4:4-6).

And the genetic Jews who will become believers at the 2nd coming will all become part of the church by receiving some measure of the Holy Spirit, who is "the spirit of grace and of supplications" in Zechariah 12:10 (Hebrews 10:29c, Romans 8:26), just as genetic Jewish believers today become part of the church by receiving some measure of the Holy Spirit. For it is by receiving some measure of the Holy Spirit that both genetic Jewish believers and genetic Gentile believers become part of the church (1 Corinthians 12:13).

Old Jack
 
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ebedmelech

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WAKE UP! Take off your preconceived glasses just long enough to answer ONE QUESTION:

Did the church exist one day after Pentecost? You KNOW it did!
Take of you "preconceived literal glasses", and understand that the church is the temple. Now you find anytime the temple is referred to in the epistles that it is not the church
WAS the temple in Jerusalem still standing one week after Pentecost? YOU KNOW IT WAS!
Was the temple in Jerusalem anything after Jesus became the high priest forever? What use is a temple then?

*No need for Passover.

*No need for the "Day of Atonement.

*No need for sacrifices.

That would be written in Hebrews 9!
Nuff said - case closed: there can exist at the same time, THE CHURCH, the body of Christ on earth, and at the same time a PHYSICAL TEMPLE.

LAMAD
Not quite. The case is only closed to those who really don't understand what Jesus meant when He said in John 2:19:
19 Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”

Jesus is the Temple, the High Priest, the Passover Lamb, and the sacrifice for the sins of the world.

No need for a temple...and your case...IS DISMISED...due to lack of evidence! :thumbsup:
 
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random person

1 COR. 10:11; HEB. 1:2; HEB. 9:26,28; 1 PET. 1:20
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Deuteronomy 10:22, was the Law delivered to the 70 souls or the Israelites as numerous as the stars?


And didn't the Abrahamic convenant involve circumcision yet in Galatians chapter 6 Paul states that circumcision isn't anything...

For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation. And those who will walk by this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God.


Figure it out!
 
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B

Bible2

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shturt678s said in post 991:

This parable, Matt.24:32-44, refers to the "1" ending being near where we need to be ready for His "1" Coming.

That's right, in that Matthew 24:34 refers to the fulfillment of "all these things", all the events of the tribulation and Jesus' 2nd coming and the gathering together (rapture) of the church immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31; cf. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17, Revelation 19:2 to 20:6), which events Jesus had just finished describing in Matthew 24:2-31, and which he would later show in great detail in Revelation chapters 6 to 19. Matthew 24:34 didn't mean (as is sometimes claimed) that the tribulation, 2nd coming, and rapture would be fulfilled during the temporal generation alive at the time of Jesus' first coming, for none of those things was fulfilled during that temporal generation.

Instead, Matthew 24:34 could mean that the temporal generation which would see the 1948 AD reestablishment of Israel, which could be symbolized by the rebudding of the fig tree (Matthew 24:32-34, Hosea 9:10, Joel 1:6-7, Luke 13:6-9, Matthew 21:19,43), won't pass, i.e. won't die off completely, until the future tribulation and 2nd coming of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 19 are fulfilled. A temporal generation may not pass until 70 or 80 years (Psalms 90:10), or 120 years (Genesis 6:3).

This doesn't require that the 2nd coming will occur right before, like one year before, that generation will pass: i.e. 69, or 79, or 119 years after 1948: in 2017, 2027, or 2067. And if the tribulation which will immediately precede the 2nd coming and rapture (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6) will last 7 years (Daniel 9:27), the tribulation's first year didn't have to be in 2011, and won't have to be in 2021, or 2061, but could be in a future year (e.g. 2020) earlier than 2021.

Matthew 24:34 could also include the meaning that the figurative, all-times generation of the elect (Matthew 24:22, Luke 16:8b, Colossians 3:12; 1 Thessalonians 1:4) won't pass away from the earth during the future tribulation of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 18, but that some of the elect will survive (Matthew 24:22) until Jesus' 2nd coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53) immediately after the tribulation of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 18 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).
 
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iamlamad

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Deuteronomy 10:22, was the Law delivered to the 70 souls or the Israelites as numerous as the stars?


And didn't the Abrahamic convenant involve circumcision yet in Galatians chapter 6 Paul states that circumcision isn't anything...

For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation. And those who will walk by this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God.

Figure it out!

Hebrews 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
 
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shturt678s

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Take of you "preconceived literal glasses", and understand that the church is the temple.

ICor.6:19, "body is a sanctuary of the Holy Spirit," thus our body = the Sanctuary part of the Temple due to the term naos is used, and contextually comports. :idea:

Now you find anytime the temple is referred to in the epistles that it is not the churchhttp://www.christianforums.com/images/smilies/liturgy.gif

Was the temple in Jerusalem anything after Jesus became the high priest forever? What use is a temple then?

*No need for Passover.

*No need for the "Day of Atonement.

*No need for sacrifices.

That would be written in Hebrews 9!

Not quite. The case is only closed to those who really don't understand what Jesus meant when He said in John 2:19:
19 Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”

Jesus is the Temple, the High Priest, the Passover Lamb, and the sacrifice for the sins of the world.

No need for a temple...and your case...IS DISMISED...due to lack of evidence! :thumbsup:

No need for a temple as Jesus is the Sanctuary (the 4 courtyards do not also dwell within)

Old Jack :thumbsup:
 
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shturt678s

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That's right, in that Matthew 24:34 refers to the fulfillment of "all these things", all the events of the tribulation and Jesus' 2nd coming and the gathering together (rapture) of the church immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31; cf. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17, Revelation 19:2 to 20:6), which events Jesus had just finished describing in Matthew 24:2-31, and which he would later show in great detail in Revelation chapters 6 to 19.

Hey, good job! However events Paul had described in IIThess.2:11, 12 which John would later show in great detail in Revelation chapters 8 to 9. :idea:

Matthew 24:34 didn't mean (as is sometimes claimed) that the tribulation, 2nd coming, and rapture would be fulfilled during the temporal generation alive at the time of Jesus' first coming, for none of those things was fulfilled during that temporal generation.

Instead, Matthew 24:34 could mean that the temporal generation which would see the 1948 AD reestablishment of Israel, which could be symbolized by the rebudding of the fig tree (Matthew 24:32-34, Hosea 9:10, Joel 1:6-7, Luke 13:6-9, Matthew 21:19,43), won't pass, i.e. won't die off completely, until the future tribulation and 2nd coming of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 19 are fulfilled. A temporal generation may not pass until 70 or 80 years (Psalms 90:10), or 120 years (Genesis 6:3).

Matt.24:34, "this generation" meaning this kind of generation will continue till the "1" ending of the world, ie, the "1" Parousia. This type of Jews. :o

This doesn't require that the 2nd coming will occur right before, like one year before, that generation will pass: i.e. 69, or 79, or 119 years after 1948: in 2017, 2027, or 2067. And if the tribulation which will immediately precede the 2nd coming and rapture (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6) will last 7 years (Daniel 9:27), the tribulation's first year didn't have to be in 2011, and won't have to be in 2021, or 2061, but could be in a future year (e.g. 2020) earlier than 2021.

Matthew 24:34 could also include the meaning that the figurative, all-times generation of the elect (Matthew 24:22, Luke 16:8b, Colossians 3:12; 1 Thessalonians 1:4) won't pass away from the earth during the future tribulation of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 18, but that some of the elect will survive (Matthew 24:22) until Jesus' 2nd coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53) immediately after the tribulation of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 18 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

Old Jack
 
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J

Johnny Appleseed

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I use David L Stern's Jewish NT commentary because I don't understand many of the interpretations of the NT. Since the Bible is written by Jews, you have to think like a Jew or be hebraic or ask a Jewish teacher. Most Messianic's use Stern's commentary. The one's who know Hebrew is a very good source of information. Our teacher's hopefully know and understand many of the passages. One of my teachers is a walking encyclopedia of the Bible especally OT studies. He has a Doctorally degree in the OT and has taught at a Biblical University in Albuquerque, NM.
 
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ebedmelech

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ICor.6:19, "body is a sanctuary of the Holy Spirit," thus our body = the Sanctuary part of the Temple due to the term naos is used, and contextually comports. :idea:

No need for a temple as Jesus is the Sanctuary (the 4 courtyards do not also dwell within)

Old Jack :thumbsup:
We've been there Jack! The "temple" contains the "sanctuary". Within the temple is the "holy place" and the most "holy place".

You have to kind of think about these things. Peter calls us "living stones" therefore, he does mean temple. I have your point. My contention is it is interchangeably used. When naos is translated I din't think it's a problem because the sanctuary is in the naos.

Paul's example in Ephesians 2:20-22 will also make the point:
20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone,
21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord,
22 in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.


I contend that it is interchangeably used because again...the temple (naos), houses the sanctuary (hagios).
 
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