3abn Continued

Sophia7 · Mar 27, 2007

Jimlarmore said:
I don't know how many employee's 3ABN has but we certainly can't expect those working there to work for nothing. As far as the carry over, I have heard Danny say many times that they had no extra held over in the bank. Bank deposits and balances are redily available upon demand if you go thru the proper channels. I agree 3ABN should be forth coming to substantiate any profits the ministry carries foward. However, what is the insinuation or point to this? That there should be absolutely no profit carried forward?

So they have to pay property tax now. How does this show any kind of corruption or under handed dealings? I think the ruling is probably correct unless they change the way they are operating.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

The point is that they were declared to be a for-profit organization for property-tax purposes. Their net profits--that is, after wages, after expenses--totaled between $1 million and $2 million for those two years. Since they receive some of my money indirectly (though I've never donated to them directly), from the church ministries that pay them for airtime, I want to know how their profits are being used. The evidence shows that their claims of being a non-profit organization are false.

Also, we shouldn't have to go to the State of Illinois public records to find out how the financial contributions to 3ABN are being distributed; reputable non-profit organizations that want to preserve donors' confidence in them should voluntarily make that information available so that people know how much of their money is actually being used directly to help others and how much is going to administrative costs.

Sophia7 · Mar 27, 2007

Jimlarmore said:
Without knowing how much it costs to run a T.V. station or associated costs it would be less than charitable for anyone to condemn a number alone without understanding the justifying reason for the charge.

God bless
Jim Larmore

Look at the bottom line. They are a for-profit organization. If they want to dispute that, they should show us what they are doing with their profits.

Jimlarmore · Mar 27, 2007

Sophia7 said:
The point is that they were declared to be a for-profit organization for property-tax purposes. Their net profits--that is, after wages, after expenses--totaled between $1 million and $2 million for those two years. Since they receive some of my money indirectly (though I've never donated to them directly), from the church ministries that pay them for airtime, I want to know how their profits are being used. The evidence shows that their claims of being a non-profit organization are false.

Also, we shouldn't have to go to the State of Illinois public records to find out how the financial contributions to 3ABN are being distributed; reputable non-profit organizations that want to preserve donors' confidence in them should voluntarily make that information available so that people know how much of their money is actually being used directly to help others and how much is going to administrative costs.

I don't have a problem with that. Have you requested a full Financial disclosure and been denied? How about anyone else?

God Bless
Jim Larmore

Sophia7 · Mar 27, 2007

I have put in a request. We'll see what they say.

Jimlarmore · Mar 27, 2007

I will say this. To my way of thinking if someone has not made any direct contributions to an organization like 3ABN then I could certainly see why they wouldn't necessarily be "johnny on the spot" to send out full disclosures by just requesting them.

Laying all of that aside , for profit or not I have been blessed by 3ABN for over two years now and I have seen where they are bringing souls to Christ on a regular basis. Praise God for 3ABN.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

Adventist Dissident · Mar 27, 2007

Jimlarmore said:
I will say this. To my way of thinking if someone has not made any direct contributions to an organization like 3ABN then I could certainly see why they wouldn't necessarily be "johnny on the spot" to send out full disclosures by just requesting them.

Laying all of that aside , for profit or not I have been blessed by 3ABN for over two years now and I have seen where they are bringing souls to Christ on a regular basis. Praise God for 3ABN.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

that is a nice way of avoiding the issue and respoinsibility, shift the shift the focus.

Sophia7 · Mar 28, 2007

Jimlarmore said:
I will say this. To my way of thinking if someone has not made any direct contributions to an organization like 3ABN then I could certainly see why they wouldn't necessarily be "johnny on the spot" to send out full disclosures by just requesting them.

Laying all of that aside , for profit or not I have been blessed by 3ABN for over two years now and I have seen where they are bringing souls to Christ on a regular basis. Praise God for 3ABN.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

When people are considering donating money to a charitable organization, they want to know ahead of time that as large a percentage of their contributions as possible will actually go to help others and not just to line someone's pockets. Many of them will make that information available so that people will have enough confidence in them to trust them with their donations. For example, ADRA (to whom I have donated money directly) makes its financial info available to everyone, and you can look it up if you do a search on a charity finder, like this one. Although 3ABN is obviously not the same type of organization, I would still expect them to be open about these sorts of details when to not do so could alienate current donors and completely turn off potential donors.

Jimlarmore · Mar 28, 2007

I agree whole-heartedly. There's nothing wrong with what you are saying here. When you say lining their pockets I assume you are referring to big fat profits that someone is getting rich on which would be inappropriate for a Christ centered concern, right? Again, I agree and it will surprize me if they don't send you what you are asking for even though you are not a contributor.

It just seems odd to me that this aspect of 3ABN comes up now. How unfortuitous is this dialogue when there are those in the side lines hurling rocks at a ministry of God? Maybe we all need to pray and ask the Lord to direct our actions concerning 3ABN. The Bible says the tongue is a powerful thing. Once we say something we can't take it back and it's effect can be far reaching.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

Rosie55 · Mar 28, 2007

3abn is audited according to the laws of the State of Illinois. No one is lining their pockets with people's money. Instead they have only one goal and that is the 3-angels messages going to all the world.

Jimlarmore · Mar 28, 2007

Rosie55 said:
3abn is audited according to the laws of the State of Illinois. No one is lining their pockets with people's money. Instead they have only one goal and that is the 3-angels messages going to all the world.

Thankyou Rosie,

God Bless
Jim Larmore

Adventist Dissident · Mar 28, 2007

.

No one is lining their pockets with people's money.

and excactually what special knowledge do you have on this? if that is the case then why aren't they NON-Profit?

Rosie55 · Mar 28, 2007

icedragon101 said:
. and excactually what special knowledge do you have on this? if that is the case then why aren't they NON-Profit?

3ABN is a non-profit religious organization that is audited according to the laws of the State of Illinois.

Sophia7 · Mar 28, 2007

Rosie55 said:
3ABN is a non-profit religious organization that is audited according to the laws of the State of Illinois.

Did you read the State of Illinois Department of Revenue document that I posted? According to the State of Illinois, 3ABN is not a non-profit religious organization. The federal standards for gaining tax-exempt status are probably less strict, however.

Adventist Dissident · Mar 28, 2007

Rosie55 said:
3ABN is a non-profit religious organization that is audited according to the laws of the State of Illinois.

some one who does not know the facts. 3abn is a FOR PROFIT business.

freeindeed2 · Mar 28, 2007

icedragon101 said:
some one who does not know the facts. 3abn is a FOR PROFIT business.

OOPS!

Rosie55 · Mar 28, 2007

Sophia7 said:
Did you read the State of Illinois Department of Revenue document that I posted? According to the State of Illinois, 3ABN is not a non-profit religious organization. The federal standards for gaining tax-exempt status are probably less strict, however.

Your information is incorrect!

This is what 3abn states on their website:

3ABN Mission Statement Three Angels Broadcasting Network (3ABN) is a not-for-profit, 24-hour multimedia Christian ministry that reaches every inhabited continent with multi-lingual programming to bring glory to God. 3ABN provides Christ-centered programming that presents the everlasting gospel, calling people to worship our Creator God, and to come out of Babylon as per the 2nd angel’s message of Revelation 14. Our focus (theme) is “Mending Broken People” through nurturing instruction in Bible truths, health, cooking, inspired music and children’s programming. Our mission is threefold: By the power of the Holy Spirit, 1) to proclaim the Good News of Jesus’ soon return; 2) to counteract the counterfeit teachings regarding God’s Ten Commandment law of love; and 3) to help lead others to a personal relationship with Jesus Christ that will last for eternity.

Sophia7 · Mar 29, 2007

Rosie55 said:
Your information is incorrect!

This is what 3abn states on their website:

3ABN Mission Statement Three Angels Broadcasting Network (3ABN) is a not-for-profit, 24-hour multimedia Christian ministry that reaches every inhabited continent with multi-lingual programming to bring glory to God. 3ABN provides Christ-centered programming that presents the everlasting gospel, calling people to worship our Creator God, and to come out of Babylon as per the 2nd angel’s message of Revelation 14. Our focus (theme) is “Mending Broken People” through nurturing instruction in Bible truths, health, cooking, inspired music and children’s programming. Our mission is threefold: By the power of the Holy Spirit, 1) to proclaim the Good News of Jesus’ soon return; 2) to counteract the counterfeit teachings regarding God’s Ten Commandment law of love; and 3) to help lead others to a personal relationship with Jesus Christ that will last for eternity.

3ABN can say whatever they want on their own website, but you are missing the point. My information came from the State of Illinois, which you insist is guaranteeing 3ABN's financial trustworthiness.

Read this post and this document from the State of Illinois. Here again is what the State of Illinois concluded about 3ABN's non-profit status for state property-tax purposes:

The Department, as shown by these cases, grants exemptions for religious organizations that use property for exempt religious purposes and not with a view to profit. As discussed above, applicant is not only not a religious organization, but, more importantly, does not primarily use the property for religious purposes without a view to profit.

Jimlarmore · Mar 29, 2007

Sophia7 said:
3ABN can say whatever they want on their own website, but you are missing the point. My information came from the State of Illinois, which you insist is guaranteeing 3ABN's financial trustworthiness.

Read this post and this document from the State of Illinois. Here again is what the State of Illinois concluded about 3ABN's non-profit status for state property-tax purposes:
The Department, as shown by these cases, grants exemptions for religious organizations that use property for exempt religious purposes and not with a view to profit. As discussed above, applicant is not only not a religious organization, but, more importantly, does not primarily use the property for religious purposes without a view to profit.

If you take a close look at the quote in red above it shows blatantly how off base a court ruling can get. By definition of law this ruling states that 3ABN is not a religious organization , yet at it's very core and being everything they do outside of selling religious material is religious in nature. The ruling is to determine a non-taxable status for the property and says the property is not used for "religious purposes" yet the property houses many buildings that SDA congregations use regularly for camp meetings/ church services/Sabbath school and church school activities. Not to mention all of the activities centered around religious programing. I've had 3ABN for over two years now and not one time have I felt like I was viewing anything but a religious station dedicated to the glory of God and speading the good news of the gospel.

You folks want a real bottom line? Use the common sense God gave us all and think about this. The State of Illinios and it's counties are about collecting taxes for revenue amoung many other things. The only reason 3ABN lost their tax exempt status is they are not actually and officially a church run organization but a private one. The fact they make a little money above expenses can't be the deciding factor because many churches have huge profits above expenses and many pastors make six figure incomes plus in other denominations.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

freeindeed2 · Mar 29, 2007

Jimlarmore said:
I've had 3ABN for over two years now and not one time have I felt like I was viewing anything but a religious station dedicated to the glory of God and speading the good news of the gospel.

They spread the SDA gospel, yes. It's a 24/7 promotion of the SDA church and its own gospel.

Pickle · Mar 29, 2007

Jim,

I wrote:

One last thought on what I started with. When I spoke of Danny being unrepentant, I was not really being judgmental. The simple fact is that I can read what he wrote me. See the end of http://www.save3abn.com/danny-shelto...n-detail-4.htm, http://www.save3abn.com/danny-shelto...l-appeal-1.htm in its entirety, and Danny's response at http://www.save3abn.com/danny-shelto...il-reply-2.htm. He's clear where he stands.

You wrote:

I could almost hear Danny's voice in my head as I read his response to you. You make some huge assumptions when you point a finger at Danny for being totally at fault here. Like most divorces, I'd bet, if I was a betting man that neither side is innocent here. There was probably wrong things done on both sides. Rmember, It takes two to tango.

I wrote:

Frankly, your reply implies that you never read the emails I sent Danny, even though I provided you with the links. The subject of those emails was Tommy, not Linda. Why are you dragging Linda into that specific discussion when she wasn't the topic of the discussion?

You wrote:

I did read the e-mails you sent and the response Danny gave to you Bob. How would I even know your name is Bob if hadn't. I'm not dragging Linda into this, you are. Nearly every post you have made is about Linda and Danny's fight over guns and car titles. You are the one making a major case out of silly piddly things. You know what, this responding to you is about as rediculous as your tirades about Danny are.

I stand by my original statement. Danny was utterly unrepentant in his reply to me, which was a reply concerning Walt's admission that Danny had told him that Tommy's child molestation allegations were 30 years old when they weren't, and that they were all due to a feud with Dryden when they weren't.

I was addressing your concern about being judgmental about his unrepentance, and in doing so I cited his own reply to a matter that had to do with Tommy, not Linda. And in your commenting about his unrepentant reply concerning how he handled the Tommy Shelton child molestation allegations, all you talked about was Linda, which wasn't the topic of that correspondence.

And when I brought this to your attention, you accused me of being the one bringing Linda into the discussion, when you were the one who brought her up in regards to that correspondence, not me.

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