3abn Continued

Pickle · Apr 10, 2007

Hmm. Bonedealer seems to believe that the allegations against Tommy were all due to a feud he had with someone who lived ... was it 800 miles away?

How could Tommy have had his ordination suspended due to allegations caused by someone who didn't even live in the area until 8 years after the fact? This is an important question regarding this aspect of the scandal that still remains unanswered. it simply makes no sense. How did Dryden get all those boys living hundreds of miles away from him to conspire against Tommy?

bonedealer · Apr 10, 2007

well robert, it would seem that maybe you can provide the details here . . . only giving us the years, and none of your sordid interpretations . . . when was:

tommy at ezra c-o-g church?

where was dryden at that time?

when was tommy in dunn lorning c-o-g?

where was dryden during this time?

when was dryden in dunn lorning c-o-g?

when was the first contact between dryden and any of the alleged victims?

why does it seem that dryden always ends up where tommy has been?

just 2 cents from the bonedealer

Pickle said:
Hmm. Bonedealer seems to believe that the allegations against Tommy were all due to a feud he had with someone who lived ... was it 800 miles away?

How could Tommy have had his ordination suspended due to allegations caused by someone who didn't even live in the area until 8 years after the fact? This is an important question regarding this aspect of the scandal that still remains unanswered. it simply makes no sense. How did Dryden get all those boys living hundreds of miles away from him to conspire against Tommy?

Pickle · Apr 10, 2007

I would think you'd know some of these answers, bonedealer.

Tommy's ordination was suspended in 1985 due to these allegations, and he was at Ezra (West Frankfort, IL) at the time. Dryden was in Dunn Loring, Virginia at the time and moved to Ezra in 1993, eight years later.

Anything in that that you think is incorrect?

bonedealer · Apr 10, 2007

well robert, you seem to fancy yourself the holder of all relevant information so i thought you might actually be able to provide the information . . . if you can't, well, you can't and that would seem to indicate that there is much you aren't aware of yet - though you make accusations as though you are aware of all the information . . . providing information instead of accusation might actually assist others looking through the material here, there, and everywhere . . .

just 2 cents from the bonedealer

Pickle said:
I would think you'd know some of these answers, bonedealer.

Tommy's ordination was suspended in 1985 due to these allegations, and he was at Ezra (West Frankfort, IL) at the time. Dryden was in Dunn Loring, Virginia at the time and moved to Ezra in 1983, eight years later.

Anything in that that you think is incorrect?

tomatoe · Apr 10, 2007

bonedealer said:
well robert, it would seem that maybe you can provide the details here . . . only giving us the years, and none of your sordid interpretations . . . when was:

tommy at ezra c-o-g church?

where was dryden at that time?

when was tommy in dunn lorning c-o-g?

where was dryden during this time?

when was dryden in dunn lorning c-o-g?

when was the first contact between dryden and any of the alleged victims?

why does it seem that dryden always ends up where tommy has been?

just 2 cents from the bonedealer

I am aquainted with someone that goes to the Dun Loring church. They said Dryden was seeking people out asking questions such as "did you see anything at all done inappropiately when TS was here? The person said he talked to Dryden directly on this subject. He ask Dryden why he was trying to find dirt where there was none. That shows me the motive and intent.

Pickle · Apr 10, 2007

What does Dryden's allegedly seeking people out after returning to Dunn Loring in 2005 or thereabouts have to do with Tommy's ordination being suspended in 1985?

Tomatoe, there are some facts that we should be able to agree on. But to bring in points that appear diversionary and irrelevant, it's just not helpful.

Can we not agree on the fact that Tommy's ordination was suspended in 1985 while Dryden was nowhere around, and that thus Walt's statement is inaccurate when it blames the allegations on Dryden?

Pickle · Apr 10, 2007

Two other key points regarding Walt's Nov. 27, 2006, email:

He indicated that he only knew of Dryden's accounts of all of this, when alleged victim Roger Clem had written his letter to Tommy in 2004.
He indicated that Tommy surrendered his license voluntarily because one man pestered him, when the 1985 letter sent to him requesting his license was signed by two people and represented an action taken by an entire committee.

By the way, if I haven't mentioned it yet, Walt has still not talked to Roger Clem as well as Duane Clem. How much longer must we wait before he does the right thing and gives those guys a call to get their side of the story?

Pickle · Apr 10, 2007

Bonedealer and tomatoe,

The fact that you did not catch my typo above when I wrote 1983 instead of 1993 suggests that you may know all these dates anyway.

Pickle · Apr 10, 2007

I see that Johann posted something at BSDA about Danny and Walt going to Minneapolis last month to talk to lawyers. Is that true?

If so, how did Johann find out? Who leaked that information? Danny? Walt, Mollie? Some other insider?

Pinkpanther007 · Apr 10, 2007

tomatoe said:
I am aquainted with someone that goes to the Dun Loring church. They said Dryden was seeking people out asking questions such as "did you see anything at all done inappropiately when TS was here? The person said he talked to Dryden directly on this subject. He ask Dryden why he was trying to find dirt where there was none. That shows me the motive and intent.

It would be inexcusable for a pastor who finds allegations of abuse NOT to ask around. That would be the height of pastoral irresponsibility.

Pickle · Apr 10, 2007

Pickle said:
I see that Johann posted something at BSDA about Danny and Walt going to Minneapolis last month to talk to lawyers. Is that true?

If so, how did Johann find out? Who leaked that information? Danny? Walt, Mollie? Some other insider?

Maybe I shouldn't have asked that. Sorry.

bonedealer · Apr 10, 2007

it would be inexcusable if they do so when there was no reason to . . . if they had never been approached about it . . . no one had ever mentioned concerns . . . if he walked in and immediately began to go around to the congregation and ask questions when there was no reason to . . . he would be guilty of creating a false perception of the previous pastor - placing false doubt in peoples minds about another individual . . .

just 2 cents from the bonedealer

Pinkpanther007 said:
It would be inexcusable for a pastor who finds allegations of abuse NOT to ask around. That would be the height of pastoral irresponsibility.

Pinkpanther007 · Apr 10, 2007

A screen name is just that. It does not have to say who the person behind it is. would it outrage you to find that Tomatoe is not a tomato, Peach a peach, or Icedragon a scaly monster? Are they being deceitful?

Steffan, I know many retired pastors who are called pastor. I also know many pastors who are not ordained. Is Ronnie Shelton called a pastor? Is he ordained? How about John Dinzey? Is Joe Obrien? Roi Ewing? 3ABN has them working as pastors in the pastoral department. Is 3ABN perpetrating a deception on the viewers and callers? Where are they pastoring? What are the names of their churchs? When were they ordained? Have they ever cleared up that misunderstanding? Have any of them made any public statement that they are not pastors to counter 3ABN's statement that they are? Which person at 3ABN approved of them being called pastors? Did Danny? Does that make him a liar?

tomatoe · Apr 10, 2007

Pinkpanther007 said:
A screen name is just that. It does not have to say who the person behind it is. would it outrage you to find that Tomatoe is not a tomato, Peach a peach, or Icedragon a scaly monster? Are they being deceitful?

Steffan, I know many retired pastors who are called pastor. I also know many pastors who are not ordained. Is Ronnie Shelton called a pastor? Is he ordained? How about John Dinzey? Is Joe Obrien? Roi Ewing? 3ABN has them working as pastors in the pastoral department. Is 3ABN perpetrating a deception on the viewers and callers? Where are they pastoring? What are the names of their churchs? When were they ordained? Have they ever cleared up that misunderstanding? Have any of them made any public statement that they are not pastors to counter 3ABN's statement that they are? Which person at 3ABN approved of them being called pastors? Did Danny? Does that make him a liar?

Yes Ronnie Shelton is an ordained conference minister. Didn't you read about the meetings that are being held in Oklahoma City for 5 weeks?

Pinkpanther007 · Apr 10, 2007

tomatoe said:
Yes Ronnie Shelton is an ordained conference minister. Didn't you read about the meetings that are being held in Oklahoma City for 5 weeks?

I read that he was doing meetings in OK, but I did not know that he had been ordained. Congratulations to Pastor Ronnie. When did the ordination take place?

tomatoe · Apr 10, 2007

Pinkpanther007 said:
I read that he was doing meetings in OK, but I did not know that he had been ordained. Congratulations to Pastor Ronnie. When did the ordination take place?

I have no idea. I just know that he is a conference pastor now.

Pickle · Apr 10, 2007

tomatoe said:
Yes Ronnie Shelton is an ordained conference minister.

I'm told that he has not been ordained, and that he is on a stipend. Thus he isn't even on full salary, but that doesn't put him in a bad light at all, in my opinion.

A friend of mine thinks he may have been pastoring two years now. But he could be off on that.

Pickle · Apr 10, 2007

bonedealer said:
. . . if they had never been approached about it . . . no one had ever mentioned concerns . . . if he walked in and immediately began to go around to the congregation and ask questions when there was no reason to . . .

My understanding is that that is not how the allegations in Virginia came to light.

Princessdi · Apr 10, 2007

Not really, just means the person might have been clueless to the situation. Just becaue taht one man didnt' know, doesn't mean there was no "dirt". I am with PP, if he got one report of this type of abuse, he needed to investigate it.

tomatoe said:
I am aquainted with someone that goes to the Dun Loring church. They said Dryden was seeking people out asking questions such as "did you see anything at all done inappropiately when TS was here? The person said he talked to Dryden directly on this subject. He ask Dryden why he was trying to find dirt where there was none. That shows me the motive and intent.

tomatoe · Apr 10, 2007

Pickle said:
I'm told that he has not been ordained, and that he is on a stipend. Thus he isn't even on full salary, but that doesn't put him in a bad light at all, in my opinion.

A friend of mine thinks he may have been pastoring two years now. But he could be off on that.

I believe that was true when he was in Arkansas. Now my understanding is he has been hired on regular conference salary since he moved to Oklahoma.

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