3abn Continued

[djconklin]

The difference about the plagiarism question is that that is a judgment call on the part of scholar X, rather than a statement of fact.

Try telling that one to those who claim plagiarism.

For Danny's statement, see [URL="http://save3abn/danny-shelton-royalt...ndence.htm#aft"]http://save3abn/danny-shelton-royalt...ndence.htm#aft[/URL]

The link didn't work.

Regarding the amount of royalties Danny might have earned, one has to consider that we are talking about 4.8 million copies sold in a single year.

According to whom?

 

[djconklin]

so you are not putting your self on equal ground with the son of God??

I wouldn't even think of it.

 

[tall73]

According to whom?

3ABN website. Of course, that is, as always, unconfirmed. But at least it is using the figure that the ministry gave.

http://www.3abn.org/TenCommandments.cfm

If I am recalling correctly when we ordered our books last year the books were free, only shipping was paid, but there were also soliciatations to help defray the costs of the ministry.

Ie..the ministry provided the books...donors helped defray the costs...they were offered free to churches with a plan to distribute them.

But even if Danny got 10 cents each in royalties when giving them to the ministry that is a HUGE figure. He may or may not have gotten anything.

 

[djconklin]

3ABN website. Of course, that is, as always, unconfirmed. But at least it is using the figure that the ministry gave.

http://www.3abn.org/TenCommandments.cfm

If I am recalling correctly when we ordered our books last year the books were free, only shipping was paid, but there were also soliciatations to help defray the costs of the ministry.

Ie..the ministry provided the books...donors helped defray the costs...they were offered free to churches with a plan to distribute them.

But even if Danny got 10 cents each in royalties when giving them to the ministry that is a HUGE figure. He may or may not have gotten anything.

Hmm, some how someone who gave away 4.8 million copies made big bucks-very interesting! How does one get a royalty from a book that is given away free? Someone? We could make some money here!

"In addition to this mighty effort, 4.8 million copies of the book Ten Commandments Twice Removed by Danny Shelton and Shelley Quinn were given out free of charge in several different languages to people all over the world. "

 

[Adventist Dissident]

When Jesus called people "vipers" He (as the Son of God) had the right.

then what did you mean by that??

 

[tall73]

Hmm, some how someone who gave away 4.8 million copies made big bucks-very interesting! How does one get a royalty from a book that is given away free? Someone? We could make some money here!

"In addition to this mighty effort, 4.8 million copies of the book Ten Commandments Twice Removed by Danny Shelton and Shelley Quinn were given out free of charge in several different languages to people all over the world. "

Free of charge BY WHOM?

By the ministry or Danny?

A company can acquire something then give it out "free of charge." But the costs of the item are still there. The question is whether royalties were part of that cost.
I have no axe to grind on this aspect. I have no idea whether this was done or not. That is Pickle's deal. I was merely pointing out the source for the 4.8 million.

But here is a possible scenario:

1. Danny suggests project.
2. Ministry acquires/produces books.--Danny, Shelley etc. get royalties
3. Ministry distributes the books free of charge to the churches, shouldering the expense themselves.
4. The ministry is at least partially re-imbursed by donors.

If this is what happened, and I have no clue, but that is the possibility raised, then Danny just got donors (direcly or through 3ABN assets) to pay him some royalties on 4.8 million copies of his book.

 

[djconklin]

In order to claim that someone lied you MUST know, beyond a shadow of doubt, that the other person knew what the truth WAS. Since this is highly doubtful, and as especially as Christians (oops! I assumed I was dealing with converted people!), we should be cutting each other some slack instead of cutting each other period.

 

[Pinkpanther007]

What I have not heard is that there was a church buisiness meeting. Was there one?

If she was going to be censured they should have done that, transfer or not. And what kind of action is only learned of when you go to transfer? Action should be upfront, with her there to defend herself.

As to the pastor telling her what she can or cannot do, that is not official church discipline. The pastor is not allowed to do discipline on his own. He must go before the whole church. This is only after efforts to work out things behind the scenes, but even the church business session should be with the goal of reconcilation ("if he does not listen to the church").

So the church never dealt with her, Danny won't present the evidence against her--for those who say she did it--why?

No, Tall, there was no business meeting. The pastor of the Springfield church acted unilaterally to impose on the Linda the dicipline of being barred from participation in anything other than attendance.

 

[djconklin]

I don't know by whom--the quote was a cut-and-paste from the web link you gave.

But the costs of the item are still there. The question is whether royalties were part of that cost.

BINGO! And where they paid or eaten?

 

[tall73]

I don't know by whom--the quote was a cut-and-paste from the web link you gave.

[/font]

BINGO! And where they paid or eaten?

And who did the eating or paying?

It is quite possible that Danny got no royalties and 3ABN lost money on the whole thing.

If so, then great. They used the money of donors who had given to the ministry in a wonderful way. That is admirable. It is the donor's money either way, either previous donors or current ones who were defraying costs.

The implication is that Pickle is suggesting that Danny did get royalties and therefore might have used the non-for profit to profit, which could get into other issues.

I have no clue if this happened or not.

 

[tall73]

No, Tall, there was no business meeting. The pastor of the Springfield church acted unilaterally to impose on the Linda the dicipline of being barred from participation in anything other than attendance.

Now let me just say that a pastor might do that. They do have some authority to "guard the pulpit." But it is not considered official church disipline, and would obviously not have the same evidenciary standard that public scrutiny and voting brings.

Essentially from everything I here we are to trust that the church acted correctly--when the church never acted.

The church needs to act. This is not a local issue. This is not just a marital problem. Their station is representing the church, through church programming, through an agreed upon statement of joint purpose with the GC, and it impacts us at the local level when they go on TV and talk about Danny's past.

 

[djconklin]

Here is a possible scenario:

1. Danny suggests project.
2. Ministry acquires/produces books.
3. No royalties are paid to either Danny or Shelley.
4. Ministry distributes the books free of charge to the churches, shouldering the expense themselves.

So, what we have is speculation about who got how much mythic money with no supporting evidence of any kind and yet some people are making hay over the "issue".

 

[djconklin]

The church needs to act. This is not a local issue. Their station is representing the church, through church programming, through an agreed upon statement of joint purpose with the GC, and it impacts us at the local level when they go on TV and talk about Danny's past.

Let's hope they do so soon. What would be of interest is to watch and see what people say afterwards. Will those who publically accused and condemned apologize for their unChristian conduct?

 

[tall73]

Here is a possible scenario:

1. Danny suggests project.
2. Ministry acquires/produces books.
3. No royalties are paid to either Danny or Shelley.
4. Ministry distributes the books free of charge to the churches, shouldering the expense themselves.

So, what we have is speculation about who got how much mythic money with no supporting evidence of any kind and yet some people are making hay over the "issue".

You can take that up with Pickle who claims to have some statement.

 

[Pickle]

If this is what happened, and I have no clue, but that is the possibility raised, then Danny just got donors (direcly or through 3ABN assets) to pay him some royalties on 4.8 million copies of his book.

The tax case makes it clear that 3ABN cannot result in profits to Danny or his family. If 3ABN activities result in his making lots of royalties, it needs to be fully disclosed. That's my understanding.

It is also my understanding that the books cost 70 cents a piece or so, but that printing them cost 25 cents or so. That's what I've been told.

But Danny doesn't want to make any comments at all until at least after his property settlement, when he is supposed to disclose all his assets and income. And that is a problem too.

 

[tall73]

Let's hope they do so soon. What would be of interest is to watch and see what people say afterwards. Will those who publically accused and condemned apologize for their unChristian conduct?

I suppose that depends on what they accussed of.

I have accused Danny of saying his wife is an adulterer on TV without the evidence. I would say that is pretty much irrefutable and directly impacts my local church wher we have 3ABN broadcasting to the public.

 

[Pickle]

The link didn't work.

Sorry about that. Try http://www.save3abn.com/danny-shelton-royalty-disclosures-correspondence.htm#aft

 

[tomatoe]

So did a business session ever happen? What was the finding?

To my understanding it did. The finding would be censure. Obviously her "gag" order did not apply to speaking to the church board or the 3abn board for that matter. That is just another spin by Pickle. She could have went before either at anytime. She chose not to.

 

[Pickle]

What kind of a person {oops! Had to edit what I originally had! (I'd still like to use it tho'!) Am I a liar?!?} would call anyone other then a relative or close personal friend on Christmas morning?

I sure didn't call Finley that day. And Gailon recalls calling someone else on a different holiday and getting reacted to negatively. So not only might Steffan have the wrong person, but he might also have the wrong holiday. But that would be hearsay, so I'm open on that one.

 

[Pickle]

Obviously her "gag" order did not apply to speaking to the church board or the 3abn board for that matter.

You are incorrect. See http://www.save3abn.com/3abn-and-linda-shelton-separation-contract-trial.htm where Linda specifically asked Danny to be released from the gag order so that she could defend herself at the church business meeting.

Danny made it quite clear in his email of Nov. 14, 2005 on that same web page, that it would cost her $150,000 plus all future payments BEFORE she could ask 3ABN for such a release.

No spin there. Just the facts.