3 residents of The Villages arrested for casting multiple votes in 2020 election (make that 4)

[essentialsaltes]

Three residents of The Villages have recently been arrested as part of an ongoing investigation into voter fraud, court records show.

Jay Ketcik, Joan Halstead and John Rider are each charged with casting more than one ballot in an election, a third-degree felony punishable by up to five years in prison.

Court records also do not reveal which candidates they cast votes for in the 2020 general election.

All three are registered as Republicans in Florida, voter registration records show.

Despite the recent arrests in Sumter County, very few Central Floridians have been prosecuted for casting multiple ballots, a News 6 review of court data reveals.

Between 2000 and 2020 there were no prosecutions for that statute in Brevard, Lake, Marion and Sumter counties, court data indicates.

 

[cow451]

Three residents of The Villages have recently been arrested as part of an ongoing investigation into voter fraud, court records show.

Jay Ketcik, Joan Halstead and John Rider are each charged with casting more than one ballot in an election, a third-degree felony punishable by up to five years in prison.

Court records also do not reveal which candidates they cast votes for in the 2020 general election.

All three are registered as Republicans in Florida, voter registration records show.

Despite the recent arrests in Sumter County, very few Central Floridians have been prosecuted for casting multiple ballots, a News 6 review of court data reveals.

Between 2000 and 2020 there were no prosecutions for that statute in Brevard, Lake, Marion and Sumter counties, court data indicates.

Vote Fraud is real!!!!

 

[grasping the after wind]

I thought voter fraud didn't exist? I guess it actually is a problem that needs to be addressed.

 

[miamited]

Hi @essentialsaltes

Man, the more noise the Republicans make, the more trouble they seem to get themselves into. So far, all the election fraud that I have seen, has been perpetrated by Republicans. Of course, I haven't done any exhaustive search of the matter, but as I read the various reports on the few issues of fraud that are found, it seems to be predominantly Republicans. I think we should require that all Republicans vote in person since they seem to be the one's who can't play by the rules of mail-in balloting.

It seems that the current system is working since we are finding the few fraudulent votes. This is why they do ID verification. Sometimes a vote does get through, but because the person can't really be someone else, they're usually tripped up by the ID verification process.

God bless,
Ted

 

[miamited]

I thought voter fraud didn't exist? I guess it actually is a problem that needs to be addressed.

Hi @grasping the after wind

Somehow I don't think 3 votes is going to make much difference. I've always allowed that there has likely always been some who find a way to squeeze in an extra vote. So no, I don't agree with your premise that voter fraud needs to be addressed beyond what is currently being done about it. Find those who commit fraud and prosecute them.

God bless,
Ted

 

[grasping the after wind]

Hi @grasping the after wind

Somehow I don't think 3 votes is going to make much difference. I've always allowed that there has likely always been some who find a way to squeeze in an extra vote. So no, I don't agree with your premise that voter fraud needs to be addressed beyond what is currently being done about it. Find those who commit fraud and prosecute them.

God bless,
Ted

3 votes may be the tip of an iceberg. Who knows? If three can do it, what is to stop others from doing so? Certainly, a younger more mentally agile mind might be better able to avoid detection than three old geezers in the villages. The bigger problem is that the system does not engender confidence in the populace causing people to feel disenfranchised. Not just Republicans but Democrat's as well. Mostly because both Republican and Democrat politicians claim that people are being disenfranchised by the laws proposed by the other party.

 

[cow451]

I thought voter fraud didn't exist? I guess it actually is a problem that needs to be addressed.

Where have you been? Isolated voter fraud has always been around. It's the widespread, massive, Chinese voting machine level that doesn't exist.

Obviously we need to crack down on these cheaters that have tried to steal the election on Trump's behalf.

 

[cow451]

3 votes may be the tip of an iceberg. Who knows? If three can do it, what is to stop others from doing so? Certainly, a younger more mentally agile mind might be better able to avoid detection than three old geezers in the villages. The bigger problem is that the system does not engender confidence in the populace causing people to feel disenfranchised. Not just Republicans but Democrat's as well. Mostly because both Republican and Democrat politicians claim that people are being disenfranchised by the laws proposed by the other party.

Clearly, Republicans need to up their vote-stealing game for 2024.

 

[Arcangl86]

I thought voter fraud didn't exist? I guess it actually is a problem that needs to be addressed.

Nobody I am aware of is saying there is absolutely no voter fraud ever, but rather that there is no systematic voter fraud. 3 double votes in a county that had 90000 people vote is not proof of systematic fraud.

 

[Martinius]

I am relieved that Trump was right...well, at least partly right. He got the level of fraud wrong, as it is much less than he claimed, and he got the wrong perpetrators, since so far only Republicans have been charged with cheating (or at least the only ones caught at it). But he was basically correct. Of course, anyone could claim this in every election since there is likely to be some people who will attempt to scam the system each time. But not enough to matter; plus they are usually caught.

Seriously, what this tells me is that the system DOES WORK, and is safe, secure and effective. But others will continue to press the opposite theme as long as the uninformed and gullible are willing to believe it.

 

[miamited]

3 votes may be the tip of an iceberg. Who knows? If three can do it, what is to stop others from doing so? Certainly, a younger more mentally agile mind might be better able to avoid detection than three old geezers in the villages. The bigger problem is that the system does not engender confidence in the populace causing people to feel disenfranchised. Not just Republicans but Democrat's as well. Mostly because both Republican and Democrat politicians claim that people are being disenfranchised by the laws proposed by the other party.

Hi @grasping the after wind

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tip of the iceberg. People have been soooo smart as to fool the state governments of our nation for dozens of years (and nobody knows about it...well, except of course you). That's what Trump wants you to believe. That every little finding of an issue regarding the last election is 'just the tip of the iceberg'. Listen, don't drink the Kool-aide. I feel just fine with the integrity of our elective process. Sorry you're running so scared as to fall victim to every whim of fancy that crosses the mind of a seriously delinquent human being. I don't suffer those delusions myself.

I'm just having a good ole laugh reading some of the delusional posts on these boards.

(pssssst. Watch out! They're listening in. They're parked across the street from your house with microphones and cameras. They've got you on recording.)

God bless,
Ted

 

[grasping the after wind]

Nobody I am aware of is saying there is absolutely no voter fraud ever, but rather that there is no systematic voter fraud. 3 double votes in a county that had 90000 people vote is not proof of systematic fraud.

What is in place to stop systematic fraud from occurring that would also allow three old geezers in the Villages to pull it off? Somehow, they were able to commit the fraud in the first place which is what I find disturbing. It tells me that if they could do it, a systematic effort might also succeed. It might even be more likely to be successful and less likely to be discovered if those attempting the fraud were better equipped to cover it up, less likely to be discovered.

I don't consider that punishing fraud after it has occurred, and the fraud has accomplished its intended effect, deals with the issue. Being caught after the election results are finalized would mean that the effort succeeed in its goal. Suppose at some future time, seeing that the three old geezers were able to successfully cast fraudulent votes, that a more organized entity decided it would be worth their time and effort to use similar tactics? Even if detected months later the results would still be the same and if the more organized entity were a bit more facile at a cover up than the three geezers it might not ever be detected.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Hi @grasping the after wind

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tip of the iceberg. People have been soooo smart as to fool the state governments of our nation for dozens of years (and nobody knows about it...well, except of course you). That's what Trump wants you to believe. That every little finding of an issue regarding the last election is 'just the tip of the iceberg'. Listen, don't drink the Kool-aide. I feel just fine with the integrity of our elective process. Sorry you're running so scared as to fall victim to every whim of fancy that crosses the mind of a seriously delinquent human being. I don't suffer those delusions myself.

I'm just having a good ole laugh reading some of the delusional posts on these boards.

(pssssst. Watch out! They're listening in. They're parked across the street from your house with microphones and cameras. They've got you on recording.)

God bless,
Ted

Ted,

I have not made any claims about any past election fraud other than that committed by the three geezers. Put your strawman away. Your remarks irrelevant to my post aside, the fact that three old geezers got away with fraud does matter. It shows that even rank amateurs and perhaps people with diminished mental capacity that comes invariably with age can successfully commit voter fraud. If three Republicans of that age with little organized help behind them can get away with fraud (by getting away I am referring to accomplishing the goal of having their fraudulent votes counted not necessarily getting away without being punished when discovered too late to do anything concerning those votes. ) can you actually expect me to believe on faith alone that it would be completely impossible for an organized group of Republicans with a much greater knowledge of the system to commit fraud large enough to make a difference in a very close election? I need a bit more assurance in the way of safeguards that you could show me that are in place that would allow three Republican retirees to successfully commit voter fraud in 2020 but keep future efforts by an organized group of Republicans from doing the same thing. I am not at all contending that such efforts have succeeded or even been undertaken in the past by such a group of Republicans or Democrats.

 

[miamited]

Hi @grasping the after wind

What is in place to stop systematic fraud from occurring that would also allow three old geezers in the Villages to pull it off?

But they didn't get away with it. They were found out, just as the few others who have tried it were also found out. There is no evidence anywhere that there is any systematic fraud. I think that it's likely a matter of not knowing how the system generally works, that may be leading you to believe that some greater plot by more devious minds could get away with it.

On the voter rolls everyone has an address, name and sex. So first off a man can't present as a woman and ask for a ballot. Second, if the address is on record and someone tries to vote that doesn't live at that address, then what becomes of the person who does live there? This is likely how the old geezers in the Villages got caught. They gave a phony address and it was eventually kicked out of the system to be investigated. Now, we don't know how long the people who placed these votes have been under investigation. Their names could have been kicked out with a week or two of the election back in November and it's just taken the state, especially with all the work they've got to do in investigating all of the bogus claims of fraud after this election, to get down to these names on the list.

If you paid attention during the Arizona audit, there were several hundred names and addresses that were kicked out as questionable. Well, believe it or not, it takes a state office time to go through all of those names and addresses to verify whether the information is good or not. But the facts are the facts! We've been holding national elections now for some several decades, and while there seem to always be these few outliers that try to squeeze in an extra vote, they're almost always found out and the legal system does whatever the legal system does with such folks.

This idea that some waaaay smarter person could likely get away with it is just an idea that comes from one not knowing how difficult it really is to pass bogus ballots and why these few outliers get caught year after year. They think, "Oh it's easy. I'll just go down and tell them that I'm my cousin Billy." Well, Billy voted. Or Billy's dead. So, while yes, the fraudulent vote does get taken, it kicks up an investigation. The reason that waaaay smarter people aren't doing it and getting away with it is that, as we see, it isn't that easy to get away with. You may not get caught on the day of the election...but you will get caught!

So, I would just encourage that if you really want to stick with this, "Oh fraudulent voting's a piece of cake and any smart person could get away with it." Find out exactly what all is involved for people to vote, either in person or by mail-in ballot. I think you'll find that it isn't nearly as easy as one might think.

However, if you're still thinking that our last election was rife with fraud or the next one will be or whatever, you're free to clamor loud and long about your suspicions and how very right you must be. While the state elections departments quietly and regularly keep catching and prosecuting those who do think, "oh, it's so easy even a baby could do it." If you're really interested in knowing that you 'know' what you're talking about, here's some starter material for you:

The Myth of Voter Fraud
Voter Fraud Map: Election Fraud Database | The Heritage Foundation

You'll see that this second link has information on fraudulent voting by state going back about 12-15 years.
I realize that it's hard, even for myself, to sit back and realize that a fight I was fighting wasn't right.

God bless,
Ted

 

[miamited]

@grasping the after wind

Another point to be made, is this idea that some system could lead to voter fraud by the thousands or hundreds of thousands. For every fraudulent vote, you've got to come up with a name that matches an address, where that person didn't vote. How would some large group know who was or wasn't going to vote? Secondly, have you ever considered the insurmountable problem that you'd have to get hundreds of people to keep quiet forever about it. Any idea how hard a task that might be? Donald Trump, as devious as he is and generally only willing to work with a very, very small cadre of 'loyal' sergeants, can't seem to keep anything secret for more than a couple of years.

God bless,
Ted

 

[miamited]

Hi @grasping the after wind

I am not at all contending that such efforts have succeeded or even been undertaken in the past by such a group of Republicans or Democrats.

Right, you've just come up with this idea in your head and decided that it must be possible because, well, uh, I mean...you thought about it! Historically speaking whether you are or aren't 'contending that such efforts have succeeded or even been undertaken' the answer is no they haven't ever in a national election. Why is that? Well, first of all because there is a paper trail for most states. Right now there are, I think, only four states that don't produce a paper trail. Secondly, voting machines are not connected to the internet, despite the cries of others that they are, and without internet connectivity it is impossible to digitally manipulate voting machines. Most of the fraud and hacking that you see today, in fact I think all of it, comes from people being able to access information through the internet or web connectivity between computers.

So while you may not be 'contending' that such things have happened or may happen, it obviously bothers you, now that you've decided in your mind that it must be possible. Do you know, that I've thought about what happens if the sun should go out. That's possible!! I think I'll try to figure out how to keep that from happening.

God bless,
Ted

 

[miamited]

BTW, someone on this thread or another made the comment that voter fraud never gets prosecuted. According to the site that I posted in thread #14 from the Heritage Foundation, there have been 1334 cases of fraud over the last several elections. Some of the data goes back to the early 2000's. Of those 1334 cases 1147 criminal convictions have been handed down. That doesn't really sound like nobody is prosecuting election fraud charges. Most of the others were assigned to diversion programs.

God bless,
Ted

 

[grasping the after wind]

Hi @grasping the after wind



But they didn't get away with it. They were found out, just as the few others who have tried it were also found out. There is no evidence anywhere that there is any systematic fraud. I think that it's likely a matter of not knowing how the system generally works, that may be leading you to believe that some greater plot by more devious minds could get away with it.

On the voter rolls everyone has an address, name and sex. So first off a man can't present as a woman and ask for a ballot. Second, if the address is on record and someone tries to vote that doesn't live at that address, then what becomes of the person who does live there? This is likely how the old geezers in the Villages got caught. They gave a phony address and it was eventually kicked out of the system to be investigated. Now, we don't know how long the people who placed these votes have been under investigation. Their names could have been kicked out with a week or two of the election back in November and it's just taken the state, especially with all the work they've got to do in investigating all of the bogus claims of fraud after this election, to get down to these names on the list.

If you paid attention during the Arizona audit, there were several hundred names and addresses that were kicked out as questionable. Well, believe it or not, it takes a state office time to go through all of those names and addresses to verify whether the information is good or not. But the facts are the facts! We've been holding national elections now for some several decades, and while there seem to always be these few outliers that try to squeeze in an extra vote, they're almost always found out and the legal system does whatever the legal system does with such folks.

This idea that some waaaay smarter person could likely get away with it is just an idea that comes from one not knowing how difficult it really is to pass bogus ballots and why these few outliers get caught year after year. They think, "Oh it's easy. I'll just go down and tell them that I'm my cousin Billy." Well, Billy voted. Or Billy's dead. So, while yes, the fraudulent vote does get taken, it kicks up an investigation. The reason that waaaay smarter people aren't doing it and getting away with it is that, as we see, it isn't that easy to get away with. You may not get caught on the day of the election...but you will get caught!

So, I would just encourage that if you really want to stick with this, "Oh fraudulent voting's a piece of cake and any smart person could get away with it." Find out exactly what all is involved for people to vote, either in person or by mail-in ballot. I think you'll find that it isn't nearly as easy as one might think.

However, if you're still thinking that our last election was rife with fraud or the next one will be or whatever, you're free to clamor loud and long about your suspicions and how very right you must be. While the state elections departments quietly and regularly keep catching and prosecuting those who do think, "oh, it's so easy even a baby could do it." If you're really interested in knowing that you 'know' what you're talking about, here's some starter material for you:

The Myth of Voter Fraud
Voter Fraud Map: Election Fraud Database | The Heritage Foundation

You'll see that this second link has information on fraudulent voting by state going back about 12-15 years.
I realize that it's hard, even for myself, to sit back and realize that a fight I was fighting wasn't right.

God bless,
Ted

I am aware how the system is set up in New York which sounds very like what you describe. Perhaps Florida is different. I don't know. In New York, there certainly is at least one that I am aware of and most likely more ways to game the voting system by which people could possibly get away with fraud (i.e. have fraudulent votes counted). For instance, one can be aware of who moved or died, and the board of elections was not informed, which is often the case, one could go and vote in their name. No one would question it because there is no reason to question a person's right to vote who comes in and gives their name, which name and address is on the rolls, when no other person shows up to contest it. Voters remain on the rolls as long as they continue to vote every year unless the board of elections is informed that the voter has moved or died. I vote properly every year not ever fraudulently because I am a generally honest and upright person. I would never attempt such a thing, but I am fully aware of how one could go about doing it and doing it successfully. And no, I do not think this has ever been done on a large-scale systematic basis. Nor do I think it has much chance of succeeding to change an election in New York. Why however would we allow the opportunity for fraud to continue to exist when we could just as easily close that door? Election results in New York State are rarely close. New York is dominated by the Democratic Party, and they have been very successful at Gerrymandering the state to keep any races from being close enough for voter fraud to have an effect. For instance, It is especially hard for voter fraud to have an effect when only one candidate appears on the ballot. Nonetheless, I do not care to ignore it and pretend it is not possible to successfully have fraudulent votes counted in an election. In New York, why would anyone bother to care as the outcomes won't be changed? Confidence in the system might cause more turnout and even if it doesn't, I wouldn't have to hear the constant complaining about the system being rigged if the system was made at least as secure as it easily could be made.



I am not interested in the past. Other than considering the success that three retirees had in getting their fraudulent votes counted. The past is over, and conditions change just as voting laws change and differ from state to state and from locality to locality., Even allowing non-citizen foreign nationals to now vote in NYC elections. With all that diversity of legislation, there is simply no way that I can assure people that any kind of fraud, systematic or otherwise, might not at some future date tip a very close election. Even if it never does, why would we allow any even tiny possibility of voter fraud, that could be easily eliminated by taking simple precautions, to exist at all? When you tell me that all future equivalents of the three old men will absolutely be told as they attempt to commit fraud that they are ineligible to vote and sent away from the polling place, I will then be satisfied that the system is as secure as we can make it.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Hi @grasping the after wind



Right, you've just come up with this idea in your head and decided that it must be possible because, well, uh, I mean...you thought about it! Historically speaking whether you are or aren't 'contending that such efforts have succeeded or even been undertaken' the answer is no they haven't ever in a national election. Why is that? Well, first of all because there is a paper trail for most states. Right now there are, I think, only four states that don't produce a paper trail. Secondly, voting machines are not connected to the internet, despite the cries of others that they are, and without internet connectivity it is impossible to digitally manipulate voting machines. Most of the fraud and hacking that you see today, in fact I think all of it, comes from people being able to access information through the internet or web connectivity between computers.

So while you may not be 'contending' that such things have happened or may happen, it obviously bothers you, now that you've decided in your mind that it must be possible. Do you know, that I've thought about what happens if the sun should go out. That's possible!! I think I'll try to figure out how to keep that from happening.

God bless,
Ted

Perhaps I was overstating when I said, "in the past". I meant in the recent past. I am fairly certain that voter fraud along with voter intimidation have changed results in the past in the US so imagining the same happening in the future is not like imagining something that is beyond belief or unheard of prior to my coming up with the idea. We addressed those things as a nation and made our elections more secure. Why not continue on that path?

 

[cow451]

Perhaps I was overstating when I said, "in the past". I meant in the recent past. I am fairly certain that voter fraud along with voter intimidation have changed results in the past in the US so imagining the same happening in the future is not like imagining something that is beyond belief or unheard of prior to my coming up with the idea. We addressed those things as a nation and made our elections more secure. Why not continue on that path?

It would be a lot easier to do that if the GOP would stop supporting Trump/single letter activists gaslighting the public. So much time and resources are being spent by states trying to make voting harder rather than more secure.