Mudskippers, walking catfish and flying fish, oh my!

[WinAce]

Mudskippers

"In many living species of ray-finned fishes the swim-bladder can function as a temporary 'lung', enabling some species to exist outside the water for brief times. Mudskippers, small fishes that live among the mangroves and are able to climb trees, are great examples of this ability. The evolutionary transition from a swim-bladder, which is in effect a gaseous exchange organ, to a lung, also a gaseous exchange organ, was therefore not such a complex step but one that involves expansion of the surface areas within the organ to enable enough oxygen to be extracted from the air to support the organism.

Oh, look--a live, modern fish with "half legs", using its elongated fins to crawl on land and climb up trees. It possesses "half a lung", an organ obviously jury-rigged out of the swim bladder, which enables it to live outside the water for brief times.

The Walking Catfish

A fish that can walk? Don't dismiss the notion too quickly. Because there are such creatures. One even walks the streets of North America.

Its common name is the Walking Catfish. A native of Thailand, it arrived on our shores in the 1960s. Floridians wanted to put the fish in aquariums, but specimens escaped or were released, and the fish soon became established in the Everglades and elsewhere. Land barriers that would have stopped the progress of another fish didn't deter the Walking Catfish; it simply took them in stride.

In stride? Not quite. The walk is more a crawl than a saunter. The fish relies upon the pull of its pectoral spines and lateral undulations to move across land. It can breathe air thanks to a special respiratory organ and survive for months without eating. About the only thing keeping the Walking Catfish in check is its aversion to cold weather.

Wow! It looks almost like a fully marine catfish... with half-legs and a primitive breathing organ, which enable it to gain a selective advantage by crawling on land!

Atlantic Flying Fish

Flyingfishes make long, flying leaps out of the water, especially when they are chased by hungry predators. These leaps are a defensive tactic -- predators can't see them once they are in the air. Their "wings" are in fact pectoral fins that have evolved to become greatly enlarged. Atlantic Flyingfish are elongate, surface-dwelling fish and their lateral line is low on the body. They are greenish or blue above and pale below. They have a single dorsal fin and no fin spines. Their pelvic fins are far back on the body.

Yikes! A fish whose fins have become greatly elongated, enabling it to swim faster, until it found it could use them as somewhat primitive but effective aerofoils to glide out of the water and escape predators!

Check back in a few million years for further updates.

 

[lithium.]

Check back in a few million years for further updates.

Ok..I will check back in a million years.

 

[Tsaxgurl317]

thats strange

 

[Nathan Poe]

The Creationists on this board are always looking for those elusive "transitional species;" well, here you go. Any response from the Creationist camp? Anyone at all? Hmmm....?

 

[JohnR7]

Originally posted by Nathan Poe
well, here you go. Any response from the Creationist camp? Anyone at all? Hmmm....?

Yawn You need to come up withe something better than that

 

[lithium.]

Yawn You need to come up withe something better than that

LOL

 

[WinAce]

The Southern Flying Squirrel

The southern flying squirrel is easily distinguished from other Nebraska tree squirrels by its smaller size and by its gliding membrane, or patagium, a fold of skin that extends from the wrist of the front leg to the ankle of the hind leg. When the front and hind legs are extended, the membrane forms a wing-like gliding surface.

Gee whiz... its extended skin flap, the one that works as a basic wing, looks extremely similar to the more developed one bats use. It's pretty much "half a wing". Aside from the specialized skin flap, muscles and nerves that control the wing, they're pretty much identical to ordinary Nebraska squirrels.

So, what do we have here? A case where... gasp... mere "variation within a kind" (the squirrel "kind"), the type that produces "no new information", can produce ... wings...???

Or would anyone like to defend the proposition that flying squirrels and ordinary tree squirrels, despite being, for all intents and purposes, almost identical, are different "kinds"?

 

[humanimal]

Originally posted by Nathan Poe
The Creationists on this board are always looking for those elusive "transitional species;" well, here you go. Any response from the Creationist camp? Anyone at all? Hmmm....?

I had an aunt who was a transitional species. Fins that acted as legs and bladder that doubled as a lung.
Needless to say she drowned.

 

 

[Nathan Poe]

"There are many interesting species of predator and prey sheltered within the broad grassy spaces and massed granite tarns of the Outback.

One of these is the Gbh'tyt, or Outback Slug. It can leap nearly a quarter mile straight into the air, but it has never mastered the ability...

*SPLAT!*

...to land. It has no predators; it is just stupid."

--Sam Keith, The Maxx

 

[juiblex]

on the flying squirrel note, dont forget the sugar glider.

The sugar glider (Petaurus breviceps) is a small arboreal marsupial that is found in the forests of Australia, as well as in Tasmania, New Guinea, and the neighboring islands of Indonesia. This little creature is a member of the same order that includes kangaroos, opossums, wombats and Tasmanian devils!

They travel through the midnight tree tops by launching themselves into the air and transforming into a living kite by spreading out their sails of skin. They can make glides of over one hundred meters and use their long tails as rudders to control the direction of flight. They have even been known to snatch an insect out of the air in mid flight. This gliding is made possible by a thin membrane of skin called a patagium that extends between their front and back legs.

Gliders have odd qualities such as opposable fingers and toes and forked genitalia (in both male and female.) Their front feet have five fingers with sharp scimitar shaped claws. The hind feet each has a large opposable big toe.

http://www.ozramp.net.au/~senani/sugar.jpg

Considering Australia seperated completely from Gondwana in the Jurassic Era, 145 mya IIRC, this seems a little odd doesnt it?

 

[Lanakila]

These are not transitional species, the fish that supposed walk are still one hundred percent fish. The differences between them and the animals you are supposing they are transition to/from are phenominal. I cannot believe you brought these up. Is it possible that a supernatural creator created them exactly like they are, or similar (within reasonable limits of course). These animals are devolving (losing genetic information) every time they change.

 

[seebs]

Could you please show exactly which information is lost in the process of adapting a breathing aparatus to work in air.

 

[JohnR7]

Originally posted by Lanakila
These are not transitional species, the fish that supposed walk are still one hundred percent fish.

It might help if you had some photos. I think I know what your talking about, but I am not sure.

 

[MSBS]

John,

Check the OP, there are some nice links there. Here is another nice one:

http://www.naturia.per.sg/buloh/verts/mudskipper.htm

 

[WinAce]

Originally posted by Lanakila
These are not transitional species, the fish that supposed walk are still one hundred percent fish.

If your definition of "fish" is wide enough to include "primarily marine animal that crawls out of water and climbs up trees on rudimentary finlegs, while breathing thru gill lungs", then I'd tend to agree.

Then again, I consider all life on earth to be mere variation within a kind too - the "life kind".

The differences between them and the animals you are supposing they are transition to/from are phenominal.

Some of the differences between catfish / walking catfish and squirrel / flying squirrel appear smaller than those between a wolf and a chihuaha. Their existence also takes the common assertion that "half a leg does no good", tramples it, chews it up, spits it out, buries it, and fossilizes it for future scientists to find.

And if you're saying they don't look like amphibians or birds, then yes - we can only guess what they'll evolve into in a few million years, but it won't ever be exactly like already-established amphibians or flyers.

I cannot believe you brought these up. Is it possible that a supernatural creator created them exactly like they are, or similar (within reasonable limits of course).

That would mean Noah couldn't take just one "squirrel kind" on the ark... but needed all of them. If you add in all the species with unique adaptations, poor Noah's job would be greater than any project all the zoos of the world put together could do.

These animals are devolving (losing genetic information) every time they change.

If by "losing genetic information" you mean "growing imperfect legs and lungs from other structures" then yes.

Yum, southern tree-climbing catfish...

 

[ZiSunka]

Originally posted by Nathan Poe
The Creationists on this board are always looking for those elusive "transitional species;" well, here you go. Any response from the Creationist camp? Anyone at all? Hmmm....?

You say this like you've proven something. What have you proven?

You've shown us snapshots, but without the whole movie, you can't say what process brought about these strange animals. With just this information that you provided, these animals say as much about the creativty of a Creator as they do about evolution. A really creative Creator would make interesting things like these as much as an evolutionary accident would make these things.

 

[lithium.]

A really creative Creator would make interesting things like these as much as an evolutionary accident would make these things.

Ok, but why? why would a "creative Creator" make these animals? Was he bored?

 

[WinAce]

Of course he was. The walking catfish, for example, is the creative equivalent of a boat walking along on its oars. You can't make that stuff up unless you're bored and/or drunk.

Also, if one denies that flying squirrels are closely related to regular ones, then poor ole Noah had a lot more 'kinds' to deal with than we thought. Maybe millions of them. Tee-hee.

 

[ZiSunka]

Originally posted by seesaw
Ok, but why? why would a "creative Creator" make these animals? Was he bored?

Bored, or clever and playful.

Why do human beings create clever cartoon animals that don't really exist? Because it's fun.

 

[ZiSunka]

Originally posted by WinAce
Of course he was. The walking catfish, for example, is the creative equivalent of a boat walking along on its oars. You can't make that stuff up unless you're bored and/or drunk.

Not everyone has to get drunk to have fun and be creative. You can do it while you're sober, if you are mentally healthy enough. Sobriety is way cool, too.