2300 days

[PhillipLaSpino]

I would like to discuss several words in the following verse.

Dan.8:13, The question was, "How long shall be the vision concerning the DAILY SACRIFICE, and the TRANSGRESSION OF DESOLATION to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot."


For the sake of length, I will use only the part of the Hebrew that concerns the verse in Dan.8:13.


Transgression; In Hebrew it means a defection, a rebellion, a fault, a trespass, especially sin; sin against God. The Gentiles never knew God so they could not have transgressed or rebelled against Him; it had to be the Jews who turned away from God, transgressing against Him.

Desolation meaning to lay waste, Dan.8:13, “The transgression of (making) desolation” meaning the sin of the desolator, and abomination of the desolator, So the question is, “who caused this desolation?”

Mal.1:7, God said, “Ye (the Jews) offer polluted (defiled food) bread upon mine altar; and ye say, wherein have we polluted (defiled) thee? In that ye say, the table of the Lord is contemptible (despised.) And if ye offer the blind (animals) for sacrifice, is it not evil? And if ye offer the lame and sick (animals,) is it not evil? (Go) Offer it now unto the governor, see if he will be pleased with thee, or accept your person.”

Mal.2:7, “For the priest’s lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth; for he (the priest) is the messenger of the LORD of hosts. But ye (the priest of the temple) are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi saith the LORD of hosts.”

The transgression was caused because the Jews offered blemished sacrifices, animals that were sick, blind, and polluted. Even the priests had gone astray, breaking the covenant made with Arron. The Jews are those who had made the Temple desolate and broke the law. This is who Daniel is speaking of. These transgressions took place well before Antiochus showed up.

I will post my comments on the Hebrew words daily, sacrifice and the word “days” found in ver.14, “2300 days.” Because it has a several meanings, it may not mean what you think it does.

Your thoughts,

Phil LaSpino

 

[Interplanner]

But that wasn't 490 years after the decree to rebuild.

 

[PhillipLaSpino]

Interplanner I believe you're missing the point. Even after the decree, less than 40 thousand Jews returned, there was little interest in rebuilding it; it took years to first rebuild the walls and then the Temple itself; the Ark of the Covenant had been lost; the eternal flame put out; the levites were no longer the priest of the Temple as designated by the law; in other words except for the building itself, temple worship had fallen into such a state of poverty, the Lord for the most part had nothing to do with any sacrifices offered to Him by this people. The people were more interested in their idols, than the Temple, or Jehovah himself, that is except for the small remnant.

The only time the Temple had any value is when the Lord Jesus stepped into it.

Phil

 

[Douggg]

Interplanner I believe you're missing the point. Even after the decree, less than 40 thousand Jews returned, there was little interest in rebuilding it; it took years to first rebuild the walls and then the Temple itself; the Ark of the Covenant had been lost; the eternal flame put out; the levites were no longer the priest of the Temple as designated by the law; in other words except for the building itself, temple worship had fallen into such a state of poverty, the Lord for the most part had nothing to do with any sacrifices offered to Him by this people. The people were more interested in their idols, than the Temple, or Jehovah himself, that is except for the small remnant.

The only time the Temple had any value is when the Lord Jesus stepped into it.

Phil

Phil, the Jews after the Assyrian and Babylonian captivities stayed away from idol worship.

 

[Interplanner]

Thanks Doug, that's quite important. Pharisee means "separated one."

When Herod built his, they got really dreamy about the "literal" temple again. See how defensive they are in Jn 1. See how it is all mistakenly connected to a soon reigning messiah King. And how the disciples themselves still swoon over the huge structure in Mt 24. All mistaken. And really part of corrupting themselves with Rome. So there was some justification to zealot purging.

You can't do history if you are going to say things like "the only time..." above, because that insulates Jesus from history, and history from Jesus.

 

[PhillipLaSpino]

Dougg wrote, "the Jews after the Assyrian and Babylonian captivities stayed away from idol worship."

Phil replies, "Hmmmm, Not many more than 40,000 returned to Israel. All the others remained in Babylon, Assyria, or migrated throughout the Middle East and Asia Minor, thus "The Wandering Jew."

Malachi was written about 436 -420 B.C. about 400 years before Christ and not quite 500 years before the 2ed Temple was destroyed. After the captivity, the first body of Levites appeared in Jerusalem in small numbers. Ezra.2:36-42. Later under Ezra, the Levites reluctance to serve was even greater. None of them presented themselves at the first gathering Ezra.8:15. Ezra did not succeed in bringing together more than 38, and their place had to be filled by 220.

Neh.13:22. tells us the few were made the guardians of the holiness of the Sabbath; from this time on there is no mention of the Levites and their relationship with the life of the people.

Malachi 3:3, "He (God) shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness."

They had failed in fulfilling their God ordained priestly duties. They needed cleansing, and one day they will be cleansed again. But in Malachi's day or at least within the following years, their depravity had become widespread, thus any Temple worship was for the most part rejected. It had to be, to many of the ingredience were missing from the God's recipe book. We do know the Pharisee's took charge of all Temple work including High Priest soon after the Maccabees war with Rome, about 160 B.C.

Phil

Phil

 

[tranquil]

Antiochus is a template for the antichrist, yes, but it is sort of a feint, a distraction.

The 4 generals of Alexander were: Lysimachus, Cassander, Seleucus, and Ptolemy.

It's Lysimachus we should focus on - his kingdom of Pergamum (there is a city of Pergamum and a kingdom.) Attalid dynasty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pergamon

Pergamum Kingdom

Pergamum Kingdom was built on the ashes of the Hellenistic Kingdoms in Asia Minor. It came into prominence after the death of Alexander the Great. During the split of Alexander's empire this part of Anatolia fell to Lysimachus, one of the successors (Diadochi) to Alexander. Lysimachus made a great fortune from his possessions in Asia Minor, which he left a great deal of it in the care of Philetaerus, one of his officers. As we remember, Seleucus I the Nicator invaded Asia Minor and he killed Lysimachus at the critical battle of Corrupedium in west Asia Minor in 281 BCE. So, Phileateurus now was in possession of the great city and wealth of Lysimachus. Philetaerus did not waste time to strengthen his position, and rebuilt his city Pergamum and reinforced its defense walls built earlier by Lysimachus. Due to a childhood injury, having have lost his manly powers, Philetaerus never got married and had no son, so decided to adopt his nephew Eumenes as his heir to the throne of his small kingdom that he was just building.

This kingdom of Pergamum is now modern day Turkey.

In Revelation, all of the churches are located in Turkey/ this same region of Pergamum/ where "Satan's throne is".

12“And to the angel of the church in Pergamum write: ‘The words of him who has the sharp two-edged sword.
13“‘I know where you dwell, where Satan’s throne is. Yet you hold fast my name, and you did not deny my faithb even in the days of Antipas my faithful witness, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells. 14But I have a few things against you: you have some there who hold the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, so that they might eat food sacrificed to idols and practice sexual immorality. 15So also you have some who hold the teaching of the Nicolaitans. 16Therefore repent. If not, I will come to you soon and war against them with the sword of my mouth. 17He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who conquers I will give some of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, with a new name written on the stone that no one knows except the one who receives it.’

And yes, the statue of Zeus is the abomination. Zeus = Jupiter, which is why NASA is flying a Jupiter probe and crashing it into the planet Oct. 2017, right after the star sign of Rev 12 on Sept. 20-23, 2017.

ETA: The star that is "being born" through Virgo's hips is Jupiter.

 

[PhillipLaSpino]

Tranquil wrote, "It is Lysimchus we should focus on."

Phil replies, Naaa, and for several reasons. Dan.8:9, declares that OUT OF one of them (the four notable ones) a little horn which waxed exceeding great ---."

Lysimchus was one of the 4 horns spoken of by Daniel; but he or any of his sons and their sons rule over Israel. Selecus did, from him came his sons and their sons we call Antiochus, this including Antiochus the 4th who desecrated the temple.

Selecus consolidated Alexander’s dreams and his conquered lands including Israel in 280 B.C. He also Hellenized most of the conquered lands. The power of the Greeks continued because of him. He ruled as king and gave that kingdom to his son and their sons. They all had direct contact with Israel as did Nebuchadnezzar, Cyrus, Alexander, Selecus, Antiochus the 4th. And the generation from Selecus had direct contact with the Roman Empire, Lysimchus did not. These like Babylon, the Medes and Persian, Greeks and eventually Rome had direct contact with Israel's history. And that's what it's all about, Israel and the Jews because that's all Daniel was concerned with, as is the Lord.

Phil

 

[Douggg]

Dougg wrote, "the Jews after the Assyrian and Babylonian captivities stayed away from idol worship."

Phil replies, "Hmmmm, Not many more than 40,000 returned to Israel. All the others remained in Babylon, Assyria, or migrated throughout the Middle East and Asia Minor, thus "The Wandering Jew."

Malachi was written about 436 -420 B.C. about 400 years before Christ and not quite 500 years before the 2ed Temple was destroyed. After the captivity, the first body of Levites appeared in Jerusalem in small numbers. Ezra.2:36-42. Later under Ezra, the Levites reluctance to serve was even greater. None of them presented themselves at the first gathering Ezra.8:15. Ezra did not succeed in bringing together more than 38, and their place had to be filled by 220.

Neh.13:22. tells us the few were made the guardians of the holiness of the Sabbath; from this time on there is no mention of the Levites and their relationship with the life of the people.

Malachi 3:3, "He (God) shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness."

They had failed in fulfilling their God ordained priestly duties. They needed cleansing, and one day they will be cleansed again. But in Malachi's day or at least within the following years, their depravity had become widespread, thus any Temple worship was for the most part rejected. It had to be, to many of the ingredience were missing from the God's recipe book. We do know the Pharisee's took charge of all Temple work including High Priest soon after the Maccabees war with Rome, about 160 B.C.

Phil

Phil

Phil, they had their shortcomings, but worshipping idols wasn't one of them. In fact, in Nehemiah and Ezra, the caretakers Jews who had married into the surrounding people and had children by them were shamed into sending both their wives and their children away. Because it was the concubines and wives of Solomon who had brought their idols into the land - which was a big factor in getting the Jews sent into the Babylonian captivity

Jesus accused the pharisees of many things, but idol worship was not one of them. Neither is there any accusation of idol worship by the Jews by the apostles..

 

[tranquil]

Tranquil wrote, "It is Lysimchus we should focus on."

Phil replies, Naaa, and for several reasons. Dan.8:9, declares that OUT OF one of them (the four notable ones) a little horn which waxed exceeding great ---."

Lysimchus was one of the 4 horns spoken of by Daniel; but he or any of his sons and their sons rule over Israel. Selecus did, from him came his sons and their sons we call Antiochus, this including Antiochus the 4th who desecrated the temple.

Selecus consolidated Alexander’s dreams and his conquered lands including Israel in 280 B.C. He also Hellenized most of the conquered lands. The power of the Greeks continued because of him. He ruled as king and gave that kingdom to his son and their sons. They all had direct contact with Israel as did Nebuchadnezzar, Cyrus, Alexander, Selecus, Antiochus the 4th. And the generation from Selecus had direct contact with the Roman Empire, Lysimchus did not. These like Babylon, the Medes and Persian, Greeks and eventually Rome had direct contact with Israel's history. And that's what it's all about, Israel and the Jews because that's all Daniel was concerned with, as is the Lord.

Phil

Huh? I just gave you Bible verses and you want to give a useless history lesson.

Here's the 7 churches of Revelation.

That is the offshoot of the Alexander the Great 4 fragments that becomes great and attacks the saints. Turkey is the little horn of Daniel 8.

If you want to insist that the 4th Beast is Roman, Turkey (Istanbul/ Constantinople - from Constantine, the emperor) fits the bill just fine.

One of the distinctive features of Istanbul that I find intriguing is the fact that Muslims in Istanbul can "pray toward Mecca" and be facing exactly towards Jerusalem (in Rev 2:9, the Synagogue of Satan pretends to be Jews but are not").

 

[Danoh]

Ever look at a calendar, find that the days are off, only to find that you were looking at the wrong month! Ever get thrown off on what time you thought it was because your clock was off!

If the following is even a remote possibility, then Israel's prophetic clock has been on hold for some time now, putting Daniel's timeline on hold as well.

If so, then things are sort of like a baskeball game, where someone went off to get the popcorn was distracted by someone a bit too long, and has along been thinking he's missing the game. Only to find out, upon his return to where the game is being televised, that, no, that's his own idea, the game was put on hold, what's his name fell and broke his ankle...

Consider Daniel's timeline from the following, and a lot becomes crystal clear simple to piece together - much of it not connected to the secular history some, unaware of the following, might try to reckon these things from.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7835235/

 

[Danoh]

Something like that happened to Appollos, of Acts 18. Years after Acts 2's Pentecost, he us found preaching John's Baptism, and has to be shown the way of God more perfectly! And he was a man mighty in Scripture!

 

[tranquil]

Since you are bound and determined to do an in-depth study of 2300 days, I will say this for the zillionth time:

Trumpet 5 is 150 days, Trumpet 6 is 396.29 days, the outer court is given to the Gentiles for 1260 days, 3.5 days to raise up the 2 witnesses and add 490 days (Dan 9's 70 weeks prophecy) to get... 2299.79 days.

When Dan 8 says the vision is for the end/ the latter days - it means it. John the Revelator understood it in that manner quite clearly.

2300 days is the "terror, the pit, and the snare".

Isaiah 24

16From the ends of the earth we hear songs, "Glory to the Righteous One," But I say, "Woe to me! Woe to me! Alas for me! The treacherous deal treacherously, And the treacherous deal very treacherously." 17Terror and pit and snare Confront you, O inhabitant of the earth. 18Then it will be that he who flees the report of disaster will fall into the pit, And he who climbs out of the pit will be caught in the snare; For the windows above are opened, and the foundations of the earth shake.…

Trumpet 5 is the "terror", Trumpet 6 is the "pit", and then the snare.

Terror
Revelation 9
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

Pit (with emphasis on miry clay)
Psalm 40
I waited patiently for the Lord; and he inclined unto me, and heard my cry. 2 He brought me up also out of an horrible pit, out of the miry clay, and set my feet upon a rock, and established my goings.

Snare
[FONT=Georgia, serif]Psa_106:36[/FONT][FONT=Georgia, serif] And they served their idols: which were a snare unto them.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, serif]
[/FONT]
Serving the idols is the 1260 days of the outer court given to the Gentiles.

Afterward, Israel repents which triggers the 70 weeks prophecy to restore Jerusalem (the new Jerusalem is the "restored Jerusalem").

 

[Douggg]

Ever look at a calendar, find that the days are off, only to find that you were looking at the wrong month! Ever get thrown off on what time you thought it was because your clock was off!

If the following is even a remote possibility, then Israel's prophetic clock has been on hold for some time now, putting Daniel's timeline on hold as well.

If so, then things are sort of like a baskeball game, where someone went off to get the popcorn was distracted by someone a bit too long, and has along been thinking he's missing the game. Only to find out, upon his return to where the game is being televised, that, no, that's his own idea, the game was put on hold, what's his name fell and broke his ankle...

Consider Daniel's timeline from the following, and a lot becomes crystal clear simple to piece together - much of it not connected to the secular history some, unaware of the following, might try to reckon these things from.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7835235/

Straight forward, what are you saying?

 

[StephanieSomer]

It is the 3.5 years of the intense conflict of the Jewish War from 66-70. It was the period Jesus warned would change Israel forever. It was lead by a figure who was very evil yet supposed himself to be very close to God.

So, a year is now 657 days? Good to know. Guess we have a very long, cold winter coming, eh?

 

[PhillipLaSpino]

Help!

From Mohammad through the time the Dome was erected until the Ottoman Empire became established, both the Turks and those who followed Mohammad (Arab) were both of the Muslim religion than and to this day, is this correct?

Now I am not sure if they are different sects, but obviously they are both worshippers of Allah. It's also obvious both have a deep hatred for Israel and for Christians; back than, and to this day. The balance of power today appears to have shifted back to the Muslims who live in the Middle East; this is not to say the Turks are helpless.

My questions are; did the Muslim Turks fight against the Arab Muslims when the Turks took power in the 13th and 14th centuries? And when the Ottoman Empire began to crumple did they just fade away back into Turkey. Lastly when did the Arab nations (Middle Eastern) begin to regain their authority, strength, focus and form a united front against Israel and the Christians? Was it after the Jews became a nation in 1948; was it oil, or both?

Thanks
Phil

 

[Dave Watchman]

Help!

From Mohammad through the time the Dome was erected until the Ottoman Empire became established, both the Turks and those who followed Mohammad (Arab) were both of the Muslim religion than and to this day, is this correct?

The 2300 years aint got nothin to do with the Ottoman Empire or the Muslim Dome. The 2300 years are all about The King Dome.

And there was no one who could rescue the ram from his power.
Then the goat became exceedingly great, but when he was strong, the great horn was broken, and instead of it there came up four conspicuous horns toward the four winds of heaven.

Out of one of them came a little horn, which grew exceedingly great toward the south, toward the east, and toward the glorious land.
It grew great, even to the host of heaven.

It's very clear that the great horn came out of the goat. It's also very clear that when the great horn of the goat was broken, there came UP out of the goat four conspicuous horns. The four horns then point us "toward" The Four Winds of Heaven.

After the four conspicuous horns came up out of the goat, consider that our attention shifts from earthly kingdoms "toward" The Four Winds of Heaven. Why would the four horns come up toward the four winds of heaven? Because from out of one of them, The Four Winds of Heaven, came a little horn.

The Four Winds of Heaven

And the angel answered and said to me, “These are going out to the four winds of heaven, after presenting themselves before the Lord of all the earth"

Daniel declared,“I saw in my vision by night, and behold, the four winds of heaven were stirring up the great sea"

"Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live"

"After these things I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, on the sea, or on any tree. "

So then the little horn grows in power to the south and to the east and toward the Beautiful Land that is west. This means, through the process of elimination, that the little horn must come from the north (wind of heaven).

The Good Guys come from the east:

"For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be"

"Then the sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up, so that the way of the kings from the east might be prepared"

"Then I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God"


The Bad Guys come from the north:

“I will remove the locust army that came from the north...Their dead bodies will stink. I will destroy them because of all they have done to you...I will give you back what you lost in the years when swarms of locusts are your crops. It was I who sent this army against you”

"I will send for all the tribes of the north, declares the LORD, and for Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, my servant, and I will bring them against this land and its inhabitants, and against all these surrounding nations. I will devote them to destruction, and make them a horror, a hissing, and an everlasting desolation"

"From the north I will bring King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon against Tyre. He is king of kings and brings his horses, chariots, charioteers, and great army"

“I have stirred up one from the north, and he comes—
one from the rising sun who calls on my name.
He treads on rulers as if they were mortar,
as if he were a potter treading the clay"

"The Lord said to me, “From the north disaster will be poured out on all who live in the land"


Think about this.

Media and Persia is described as just a two horned ram. Greece is described as just a shaggy goat. Alexander the great, who conquered the known world by the time he was 33, is described as just a large horn that gets broken off. Alexander's Generals are described as just four prominent horns.

But when we come to this so called "little horn" we get this long litany of descriptors:

It grew until it reached the host of the heavens
It threw some of the starry host down to the earth and trampled on them.
It set itself up to be as great as the commander of the army of the Lord;
It took away the daily sacrifice from the Lord, and his sanctuary was thrown down.
Because of rebellion, the Lord’s people[a] and the daily sacrifice were given over to it.
It prospered in everything it did, and truth was thrown to the ground.

Then "It" becomes a "He":

A fierce-looking king, a master of intrigue,
He will become very strong, but not by his own power.
He will cause astounding devastation and will succeed in whatever he does.
He will destroy those who are mighty, the holy people. (for 42 months)
He will cause deceit to prosper, and he will consider himself superior.
He will destroy many and take his stand against the Prince of princes.
He will be destroyed, but not by human power. (when He is thrown into lake of fire)

The Little Horn is not some little dude from Greece.

The Little Horn is The Antichrist that will appear during the future Appointed Time of The End.

 

[Douggg]

So then the little horn grows in power to the south and to the east and toward the Beautiful Land that is west. This means, through the process of elimination, that the little horn must come from the north (wind of heaven).

The little horn comes from a geographic location north and west of Israel.

 

[Dave Watchman]

The little horn comes from a geographic location north and west of Israel.

I think I read that before in a book by Hal. Will Abaddon also come from a geographical location north and west of Israel? Our guy is part of the first woe. Remember when there was controversy over Barry's birth certificate? When the Little Horn from Daniel 8 appears he will not have one. The Antichrist will be Lucifer the angel king from the abyss. Did you ever wish you could have been alive when Jesus walked the earth? What it must have been like to meet Him in person. We are gonna get the flip side of the coin at the fifth trumpet. The Devil is about to appear on earth and he won't even claim to be a man, he will claim to be God. If anyone doubts his claim he will call fire down from the sky and burn the guy up in front of everyone standing there. I wonder if Antiochus Epiphanes could do that trick.
The first forum note that I ever wrote was 10 months ago at joelstrumpet. I didn't know it at the time but that forum was started by a guy who wrote a book claiming that the Antichrist would be a Muslim from the middle east. If anyone said something to the contrary they were reprimanded. No Muslim from the middle east will be able to call fire down from heaven in the presence of men or be given the power to kill a third of mankind.
It's enough to make me want to become a preterist.

 

[Douggg]

I think I read that before in a book by Hal. Will Abaddon also come from a geographical location north and west of Israel? Our guy is part of the first woe. Remember when there was controversy over Barry's birth certificate? When the Little Horn from Daniel 8 appears he will not have one. The Antichrist will be Lucifer the angel king from the abyss. Did you ever wish you could have been alive when Jesus walked the earth? What it must have been like to meet Him in person. We are gonna get the flip side of the coin at the fifth trumpet. The Devil is about to appear on earth and he won't even claim to be a man, he will claim to be God. If anyone doubts his claim he will call fire down from the sky and burn the guy up in front of everyone standing there. I wonder if Antiochus Epiphanes could do that trick.
The first forum note that I ever wrote was 10 months ago at joelstrumpet. I didn't know it at the time but that forum was started by a guy who wrote a book claiming that the Antichrist would be a Muslim from the middle east. If anyone said something to the contrary they were reprimanded. No Muslim from the middle east will be able to call fire down from heaven in the presence of men or be given the power to kill a third of mankind.
It's enough to make me want to become a preterist.

Well, Abaddon is a different person than the Antichrist. Abaddon is the angel over the flesh tormenting locust and comes out of the bottomless pit.

The Antichrist, differently, comes from the north and west from the kingdom of the ten kings of Daniel 7.