20 major reasons to reject the Premillennial doctrine

[BABerean2]

But your whole position resides on Jesus' return instantly destroying the entire planet.
Why resurrect just before, rather than after?
but Paul is clear that the dead in Christ are resurrected as Jesus comes down with a shout.

So if your position applies, Jesus resurrects them just to destroy them again.

It is not for me to question God, and why He does things in a certain order.

What did Paul say below?

2Ti 4:1 I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom:


The judgment of the living is found in Matthew 25:31-46.

The judgment of the dead is found in John 5:27-30, and Revelation 11:18.

Paul also says Christ returns "in flaming fire" taking vengeance on those who do not know God, in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10.
This agrees with what Peter said in 2 Peter 3:10-13.


What is the restoration of all things in the passage below?

Act 3:20 and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before,
Act 3:21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.

.

 

[Jamdoc]

It is not for me to question God, and why He does things in a certain order.

What did Paul say below?

2Ti 4:1 I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom:


The judgment of the living is found in Matthew 25:31-46.

The judgment of the dead is found in John 5:27-30, and Revelation 11:18.

Paul also says Christ returns "in flaming fire" taking vengeance on those who do not know God, in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10.
This agrees with what Peter said in 2 Peter 3:10-13.


What is the restoration of all things in the passage below?

Act 3:20 and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before,
Act 3:21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.

.

and in Revelation 19 there's no flaming fire.
that comes after the last act of rebellion in Revelation 20, AFTER the millennium.

 

[BABerean2]

and in Revelation 19 there's no flaming fire.
that comes after the last act of rebellion in Revelation 20, AFTER the millennium.

Rev_16:8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.


Rev_18:8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.


Rev_18:9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,


Rev_18:18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!


Rev_19:3 And again they said, Alleluia. And her smoke rose up for ever and ever. (Where there is smoke, there is fire.)

.

 

[sovereigngrace]

In that case again, semantics, if you want to go for that, Lazarus was resurrected BY Jesus before Jesus was resurrected.

and let's be clear, I showed you where the Apostle Paul says your preterist viewpoint is in ERROR.

No semantics! Just biblical facts! Lazurus never conquered the grave. He eventually died. Jesus was the first to conquer death and the grave. Do you reject the fact that Jesus is "the first resurrection" (Acts 26:23 and Revelation 20:6), "the firstborn from the dead" (Colossians 1:18), "the firstfruits of them that slept" (1 Corinthians 15:20), "first begotten of the dead" (Revelation 1:5)?

 

[sovereigngrace]

and in Revelation 19 there's no flaming fire.
that comes after the last act of rebellion in Revelation 20, AFTER the millennium.

A plain straightforward literal reading of Revelation 19 forbids Premil. It also confirms that we are looking at a series of parallels describing the same intra-Advent period - as elsewhere in Scripture. Revelation 19:11-16 makes clear, “And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall shepherd them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.”

A plain reading of the passage before us reveals that Christis coming back with wrath to execute judgment and destroy all those left behind. He is not going to reward men for their rebellion by leading them unto the glorified new earth. Neither is Christ coming to engage in some ill-fated war against evil for a thousand years – that is not remotely in the text. The King of kings and Lord of lords will not have to fight for victory. He already won that decisively at the cross.

Christ is seen pouring out His wrath without mixture upon the nations as He smites them in His fury with “a sharp sword” that comes “out of his mouth.” What is the result of this act? It shall “smite the nations” that have missed the catching away. This is what awaits the nations. They are going to be smitten. The word for “smite” in this text is the Greek word patasso, which means to strike with a weapon or to smite fatally. It means to smite down, cut down, to kill, slay.

Let us be clear: Heis coming to smite down the nations, not corral them into some sin-cursed, goat-infested, death-blighted millennial age. It says that “he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.” This is not a pretty sight. This is not loose talk by God. This is not something that the nations should look forward to. What awaits the nations that have rejected Christ is utter destruction and devastation. The nations left behind are totally destroyed. Christ destroys them by the very utterance of His mouth.

The two words interpreted “fierceness” and “wrath” here are thumos and orge which are regularly employed in the New Testament to mean ‘fierceness, indignation, wrath and vengeance’. The word orge carries the additional meaning of ‘violent passion’. Clearly the Lord is not happy with those left behind. Like those left behind in Noah’s day and Sodom they face an awful end, as they receive the reward of their rejection of Christ.

Verses 17-18 says, “I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. The loipoy (or remaining ones) those left behind were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.”

This is complete, wholesale, and total destruction - for those left behind. There are no survivors!

If you take this out of the Premil armory there is nothing left. The whole Premil doctrine hangs upon a thin frayed thread. It enjoys no other support in Scripture. It solely and exclusively depends on the correlation and chronology of the Revelation 19-20, which clearly doesn't exist.

 

[Timtofly]

Revelation 20:6 simply says, “Blessed and holy is he ‘that hath part’ (present active particle) in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power.”

The Greek word for "first" (as in first resurrection) is protos. It is a contracted superlative meaning foremost (in time, place, order and/or importance). So which is the "first" (or protos) resurrection - Christ's or the resurrection that occurs at the second coming? This is a pretty simply question.

Which is the foremost resurrection in time?
Which is the foremost resurrection in place?
Which is the foremost resurrection in order?
Which is the foremost resurrection in importance?

The dead in Christ are all raised in the resurrection of Christ. It is an ongoing fact, that flesh and blood returns to dust never to be raised. The false teaching of flesh being raised has corrupted the fact the soul only is being raised. It is not the body that was raised, but the soul from sheol. Now the grave (sheol) cannot hold the soul any more. The soul literally goes to Paradise at death. Flesh and blood totally removed from spiritual reality. Spiritual and physical are one and the same. Flesh and blood are veiled from the spiritual and will never partake of the spiritual ever. Adam and Eve died physically that day. They received flesh and blood bodies that would never experience the spiritual at all. That is why all flesh and blood bodies will be changed. Even if the person is alive. The rapture will change this flesh and blood back to Adam's original physical body. Paul explains this over and over again, several ways, but no one seems to grasp what Paul is teaching.

Once changed, this soul will not return to earth, until the next reality. Jesus claimed on the Cross that those who die in Christ will be placed in Paradise. That is a constant nonchanging condition. Even in the next reality, those in Christ, currently in Paradise, come back in the New Jerusalem that comes down from heaven. Only at that time will those in Christ, return to earth. Those in Christ will never return to this cursed earth. Not even in the last Millennium. You are not denying the last 1000 years to those in Christ. You are denying the last Millennium as the time set apart for the Lord Jesus Christ Himself. Your argument is with the Lamb who is the Atonement for all of Adam's descendants. The majority of Adam's descendants deny the Lamb is a reality as well as any future glorious Millennium.

John gives us the first and only resurrection of a physical body back to live on the earth. These humans do not have a spiritual body. They are given Adam's original physical body. This body is still biological and will still produce more of Adam's descendants. But it is not the dead body of flesh and blood that we currently have. All these people died and resurrected in a changed body. The Law will be in place on earth and will work by the nature of the new physical body without a dead sin nature. Yes those born during this 1000 years will still break the law. Not because the flesh demands sin. It will be a free will choice.

This 1000 years that you deny is not based on NT or OT reality, because the body will not be the same sinful nature of death we currently have. There was a resurrection from the old body of flesh made dead by a sin nature. The new body is free from the old sin nature. That is why there is a Millennium set apart dedicated to Christ, and it cannot coincide with current sinful nature. You are free to believe anything, even if it goes against God's plan, clearly defined in God's Word.

 

[sovereigngrace]

The dead in Christ are all raised in the resurrection of Christ. It is an ongoing fact, that flesh and blood returns to dust never to be raised. The false teaching of flesh being raised has corrupted the fact the soul only is being raised. It is not the body that was raised, but the soul from sheol. Now the grave (sheol) cannot hold the soul any more. The soul literally goes to Paradise at death. Flesh and blood totally removed from spiritual reality. Spiritual and physical are one and the same. Flesh and blood are veiled from the spiritual and will never partake of the spiritual ever. Adam and Eve died physically that day. They received flesh and blood bodies that would never experience the spiritual at all. That is why all flesh and blood bodies will be changed. Even if the person is alive. The rapture will change this flesh and blood back to Adam's original physical body. Paul explains this over and over again, several ways, but no one seems to grasp what Paul is teaching.

Once changed, this soul will not return to earth, until the next reality. Jesus claimed on the Cross that those who die in Christ will be placed in Paradise. That is a constant nonchanging condition. Even in the next reality, those in Christ, currently in Paradise, come back in the New Jerusalem that comes down from heaven. Only at that time will those in Christ, return to earth. Those in Christ will never return to this cursed earth. Not even in the last Millennium. You are not denying the last 1000 years to those in Christ. You are denying the last Millennium as the time set apart for the Lord Jesus Christ Himself. Your argument is with the Lamb who is the Atonement for all of Adam's descendants. The majority of Adam's descendants deny the Lamb is a reality as well as any future glorious Millennium.

John gives us the first and only resurrection of a physical body back to live on the earth. These humans do not have a spiritual body. They are given Adam's original physical body. This body is still biological and will still produce more of Adam's descendants. But it is not the dead body of flesh and blood that we currently have. All these people died and resurrected in a changed body. The Law will be in place on earth and will work by the nature of the new physical body without a dead sin nature. Yes those born during this 1000 years will still break the law. Not because the flesh demands sin. It will be a free will choice.

This 1000 years that you deny is not based on NT or OT reality, because the body will not be the same sinful nature of death we currently have. There was a resurrection from the old body of flesh made dead by a sin nature. The new body is free from the old sin nature. That is why there is a Millennium set apart dedicated to Christ, and it cannot coincide with current sinful nature. You are free to believe anything, even if it goes against God's plan, clearly defined in God's Word.

Revelation 20 is describing that great victory that occurred 2000 years ago and what resulted with the dead in Christ being raised to paradise. But that is what Revelation 20 is talking about

 

[Jamdoc]

Rev_16:8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.


Rev_18:8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.


Rev_18:9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,


Rev_18:18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!


Rev_19:3 And again they said, Alleluia. And her smoke rose up for ever and ever. (Where there is smoke, there is fire.)

.

None of that is the all consuming planet destroying fire you are talking about, because know what? Things continue happening on the planet afterward. Nobody can mourn Babylon's fall if fire has destroyed the whole planet, so that cannot be the elements fusing and the whole world passing away.

 

[Jamdoc]

Revelation 20 is describing that great victory that occurred 2000 years ago and what resulted with the dead in Christ being raised to paradise. But that is what Revelation 20 is talking about

No it isn't. John was writing PROPHECY, and it was after 90AD.

All preterists seem to forget that Revelation was written AFTER the resurrection of Christ, AFTER the spread of the church, AFTER Nero destroyed Jerusalem.

John did not write a historical book he wrote a prophetic one.

Decades earlier but still after the Resurrection of Christ Paul wrote that anyone claiming the resurrection had already taken place was in error yet here you are, spouting that error.

 

[Jamdoc]

The dead in Christ are all raised in the resurrection of Christ. It is an ongoing fact, that flesh and blood returns to dust never to be raised. The false teaching of flesh being raised has corrupted the fact the soul only is being raised. It is not the body that was raised, but the soul from sheol. Now the grave (sheol) cannot hold the soul any more. The soul literally goes to Paradise at death. Flesh and blood totally removed from spiritual reality. Spiritual and physical are one and the same. Flesh and blood are veiled from the spiritual and will never partake of the spiritual ever. Adam and Eve died physically that day. They received flesh and blood bodies that would never experience the spiritual at all. That is why all flesh and blood bodies will be changed. Even if the person is alive. The rapture will change this flesh and blood back to Adam's original physical body. Paul explains this over and over again, several ways, but no one seems to grasp what Paul is teaching.

Once changed, this soul will not return to earth, until the next reality. Jesus claimed on the Cross that those who die in Christ will be placed in Paradise. That is a constant nonchanging condition. Even in the next reality, those in Christ, currently in Paradise, come back in the New Jerusalem that comes down from heaven. Only at that time will those in Christ, return to earth. Those in Christ will never return to this cursed earth. Not even in the last Millennium. You are not denying the last 1000 years to those in Christ. You are denying the last Millennium as the time set apart for the Lord Jesus Christ Himself. Your argument is with the Lamb who is the Atonement for all of Adam's descendants. The majority of Adam's descendants deny the Lamb is a reality as well as any future glorious Millennium.

John gives us the first and only resurrection of a physical body back to live on the earth. These humans do not have a spiritual body. They are given Adam's original physical body. This body is still biological and will still produce more of Adam's descendants. But it is not the dead body of flesh and blood that we currently have. All these people died and resurrected in a changed body. The Law will be in place on earth and will work by the nature of the new physical body without a dead sin nature. Yes those born during this 1000 years will still break the law. Not because the flesh demands sin. It will be a free will choice.

This 1000 years that you deny is not based on NT or OT reality, because the body will not be the same sinful nature of death we currently have. There was a resurrection from the old body of flesh made dead by a sin nature. The new body is free from the old sin nature. That is why there is a Millennium set apart dedicated to Christ, and it cannot coincide with current sinful nature. You are free to believe anything, even if it goes against God's plan, clearly defined in God's Word.

Jesus' resurrection body had flesh and could eat food and be touched.
The resurrection includes a body, it is physical.
Stop spiritualizing things to the point of everything being abstract and intangible.

 

[Timtofly]

Revelation 20 is describing that great victory that occurred 2000 years ago and what resulted with the dead in Christ being raised to paradise. But that is what Revelation 20 is talking about

Only theoretically. Keep fast to your theories. God is still true, while all men are liars.

 

[Timtofly]

Jesus' resurrection body had flesh and could eat food and be touched.
The resurrection includes a body, it is physical.
Stop spiritualizing things to the point of everything being abstract and intangible.

I am doing just the opposite. I am stating the spiritual is just as physical as our physical. Yes, Adam ate food, with a body that was free from sin and death. Then after Adam disobeyed, he ate with a body that now had a sinful nature and dead to all that is spiritual. Adam was created with a body that fit in with current creation, both fully physically and spiritually. What is not understood about Adam before he disobeyed and after?

Jesus was born in current sinful flesh, but without a sinful nature. Jesus had a pre-sin body, that will show the marks, but his flesh and blood form of sinful flesh returned to dust, as with all humans born of the Spirit. Change happened for Jesus at death. Same change happens to those in Christ when this body of sin and death dies physically. It returns to dust. The soul receives a body free of sin upon death in Paradise. There was a bodily change and resurrection of all OT Saints at the cross.

Matthew mentions it, but there was not a huge deal made, other than Paul said Christ did have His firstfruits at the resurrection of Jesus Christ. For the last 1990 years souls have been changed at death with an incorruptible body. There was nothing to stand in the way, as the Cross changed the way saints die. Before the Cross the soul was in sheol. Since the Cross, all souls, in Christ, quickened by the Holy Spirit, go immediately to Paradise with an incorruptible body.

 

[sovereigngrace]

No it isn't. John was writing PROPHECY, and it was after 90AD.

All preterists seem to forget that Revelation was written AFTER the resurrection of Christ, AFTER the spread of the church, AFTER Nero destroyed Jerusalem.

John did not write a historical book he wrote a prophetic one.

Decades earlier but still after the Resurrection of Christ Paul wrote that anyone claiming the resurrection had already taken place was in error yet here you are, spouting that error.

I am not a Preterist. Revelation looks back, present and future.

 

[BABerean2]

None of that is the all consuming planet destroying fire you are talking about, because know what? Things continue happening on the planet afterward. Nobody can mourn Babylon's fall if fire has destroyed the whole planet, so that cannot be the elements fusing and the whole world passing away.

The greatest earthquake in the history of the planet is found in Revelation chapter 16, which is the same chapter where He comes as a thief at Armageddon.

Rev 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
Rev 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
Rev 16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
Rev 16:18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.
Rev 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
Rev 16:20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
Rev 16:21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.



What did Peter say below?
This is not what I said, but what Peter said.

What happens on the day of the Lord, when He comes as a thief?


2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Peter was looking for the New Heavens and the New Earth, and I am looking for the same thing.


.

 

[Jamdoc]

I am doing just the opposite. I am stating the spiritual is just as physical as our physical. Yes, Adam ate food, with a body that was free from sin and death. Then after Adam disobeyed, he ate with a body that now had a sinful nature and dead to all that is spiritual. Adam was created with a body that fit in with current creation, both fully physically and spiritually. What is not understood about Adam before he disobeyed and after?

Jesus was born in current sinful flesh, but without a sinful nature. Jesus had a pre-sin body, that will show the marks, but his flesh and blood form of sinful flesh returned to dust, as with all humans born of the Spirit. Change happened for Jesus at death. Same change happens to those in Christ when this body of sin and death dies physically. It returns to dust. The soul receives a body free of sin upon death in Paradise. There was a bodily change and resurrection of all OT Saints at the cross.

Matthew mentions it, but there was not a huge deal made, other than Paul said Christ did have His firstfruits at the resurrection of Jesus Christ. For the last 1990 years souls have been changed at death with an incorruptible body. There was nothing to stand in the way, as the Cross changed the way saints die. Before the Cross the soul was in sheol. Since the Cross, all souls, in Christ, quickened by the Holy Spirit, go immediately to Paradise with an incorruptible body.

Souls go to be with the Lord but it is taught in the bible that there is a physical resurrection of the body of those in Christ first, then 1000 years, then everyone else to stand judgement. What John saw in Revelation 6 after the 5th seal was not bodies but souls. He specified that they were souls so he knew by sight that there was something different about them, and they were clamoring for justice to be done and for their murders to be avenged, they were not overjoyed and happy, they were missing SOMETHING. There were tears to be wiped away, grief to be comforted, anger to be quenched. God told them to be patient.
So while departing from the body is better than living on earth, we are with the Lord, and we won't be in sin any longer, but we are not whole, we will be waiting for the redemption of our bodies before we are whole, before the Lord wipes away all tears and before there will never be sorrow or grief again. That all comes with the resurrection and is fulfilled completely with the new earth.

Now, note that in Revelation 7 there are a bunch of new people in heaven and John does NOT call these souls, just a great multitude. I believe this is the saints, both those who were dead in Christ, and those still alive at the time of the rapture after the 6th seal, note the change in tone between the disembodied souls.... and the redeemed which I believe have been resurrected in a body and are whole.

Revelation 6:9-11

9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

These souls complain, they ask God for something they need, they are not whole, they are not fulfilled and full of joy, they have an unfulfilled need.

Now compare with Revelation 7:9-12

9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,

12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.

What a tone change! They go from complaint to praise, something happened to fulfill them to where they didn't have an unfulfilled need anymore. I believe having a body is the difference.

So this is not something that happens immediately after your death, but something we wait for, and will happen to all of us all at once.

1 Corinthians 15:51-52

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

 

[Jamdoc]

I am not a Preterist. Revelation looks back, present and future.

and yet you believe all of Revelation took place in the past except an instantaneous return of Jesus that destroys the entire world in the blink of an eye with no signs beforehand because you stress the thief in the night illustration rather than Jesus telling us the signs of His coming and to watch for Him and be ready, and Paul reaffirming that we'll be able to watch and be ready and NOT be overtaken as by a thief in the night.

Everything with you is "it's about the intradvent period"

 

[Jamdoc]

The greatest earthquake in the history of the planet is found in Revelation chapter 16, which is the same chapter where He comes as a thief at Armageddon.

Rev 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
Rev 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
Rev 16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
Rev 16:18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.
Rev 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
Rev 16:20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
Rev 16:21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.



What did Peter say below?
This is not what I said, but what Peter said.

What happens on the day of the Lord, when He comes as a thief?


2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Peter was looking for the New Heavens and the New Earth, and I am looking for the same thing.


.

and similarly Paul taught that at Jesus' return the dead in Christ would be resurrected.

SO. which is it? If you have them as a singular event you have Jesus coming down, the dead rising, and then instantly being killed again. If you separate them, it makes a lot more sense.

if you have Jesus come in the clouds in chapter 6, the resurrection, THEN the wrath of God, THEN Jesus coming back down with His saints to establish His kingdom, the 1000 years, THEN the destruction by fire and final judgement and the new heavens and new earth, nothing seems out of order or nonsensical.

If you combine it all into an instant then it becomes nonsensical.

 

[sovereigngrace]

and yet you believe all of Revelation took place in the past except an instantaneous return of Jesus that destroys the entire world in the blink of an eye with no signs beforehand because you stress the thief in the night illustration rather than Jesus telling us the signs of His coming and to watch for Him and be ready, and Paul reaffirming that we'll be able to watch and be ready and NOT be overtaken as by a thief in the night.

Everything with you is "it's about the intradvent period"

We are in the intra-Advent period now. Revelation covers that period and the hereafter.

 

[BABerean2]

and similarly Paul taught that at Jesus' return the dead in Christ would be resurrected.

SO. which is it? If you have them as a singular event you have Jesus coming down, the dead rising, and then instantly being killed again. If you separate them, it makes a lot more sense.

if you have Jesus come in the clouds in chapter 6, the resurrection, THEN the wrath of God, THEN Jesus coming back down with His saints to establish His kingdom, the 1000 years, THEN the destruction by fire and final judgement and the new heavens and new earth, nothing seems out of order or nonsensical.

If you combine it all into an instant then it becomes nonsensical.

Nobody said it happens at the same instant.
However, it could happen on the same day.

Based on Matthew 25:31-46, Christ judges the living by separating the sheep and the goats at His return.

Based on John 5:27-30, Christ judges the dead.
The timing of that event is found in Revelation 11:18, right after the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible. This proves the Book of Revelation is not in chronological order.

Paul confirms both of these occurring at His appearing in 2 Timothy 4:1.

He comes as a thief in 1 Thessalonians chapters 4, and 5.

He comes as a thief in 2 Peter 3:10-13.

He comes as a thief at Armageddon in Revelation 16:15-16.

God stands outside of time and space. He is not required to do things that make sense to us.


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[Jamdoc]

We are in the intra-Advent period now. Revelation covers that period and the hereafter.

Most of revelation is the last few years just before Christ's return, and 1000 years and eternity after. Only the first few chapters and chapter 12 are historic.