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20 arguments for the existence of God

SithDoughnut

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Agnosticism is your answer to this? Again, prove to me that Atheism is more rational...not doing a good job so far.

It is based on deductive logic and evidence. The a priori attempts to prove God's existence are not rational, because you can't prove anything through a priori.

Oh Semantics...meh. I'm more into logic.

And yet you argue semantics.

"I don't believe in God" no matter how you view it has no affect on the objective position on Theism. It becomes the equivalent of "I itch." Great, it doesn't affect the truth though.

If you itch, you itch. Objective statement. The phrase "I don't believe in God" is not a statement about the existence of God, it is a statement about your beliefs. It is a statement of fact, it is objective.
 
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It is based on deductive logic and evidence. The a priori attempts to prove God's existence are not rational, because you can't prove anything through a priori.

You are attempting to prove this A Priori.


And yet you argue semantics.

No, I'm utilizing logic through what you believe is merely semantics, and you miss the point as a result.


If you itch, you itch. Objective statement. The phrase "I don't believe in God" is not a statement about the existence of God, it is a statement about your beliefs. It is a statement of fact, it is objective.

EXACTLY, which is why its subjective. Its your opinion. You are not demonstrating that its a statement of fact. You are the one playing with words, and using semantics, and thus equivocating the meanings.
 
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SithDoughnut

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Thats exactly what the statement suggests. Its something you feel, not something objective of what you and I think.

You still don't understand. It's not a statement about the existence of God. It is a statement about your beliefs. You know what your beliefs are. If you say "I am a theist", then this is an objective statement. The phrase "I don't believe in God" is the same.

Sure. They have substance as well.

OK, so prove they don't exist.


Your second part of the position is where hte problem is because you can detect the substance to be a unicorn. Kind of the same problem as the "Flying Spaghetti Monster."


No you can't. It's undetectable unless it chooses to be detectable.
 
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You still don't understand. It's not a statement about the existence of God. It is a statement about your beliefs. You know what your beliefs are. If you say "I am a theist", then this is an objective statement. The phrase "I don't believe in God" is the same.



OK, so prove they don't exist.





No you can't. It's undetectable unless it chooses to be detectable.

How is the Flying Spaghetti Monster ever undetectable? We know its Flying, we know its Spaghetti, so we know what to look for. In its definition, it contains no invisible characteristics. Thats the difference.

God on the other hand is in his primary form ALWAYS the highest form of thought. Also containing other invisible characeteristics, NEVER physical in his totality. He can manifest himself in the form of another form, a fire that led the people of Israel, and a person on several occasions, but the difference is this. He still exists as the invisible quality that he always contains in his essence, regardless of which physical form he takes. He exists in two dimensions. The FSM can only exist in the physical.
 
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SithDoughnut

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You are attempting to prove this A Priori.

No I'm not. My atheism is based upon the fact that there is no evidence for the existence of God. Due to the lack of evidence, it is more rational to reserve judgement or conclude that God's existence is unlikely, than to believe in God.

No, I'm utilizing logic through what you believe is merely semantics, and you miss the point as a result.

Debating what objective and subjective mean is semantics.

EXACTLY, which is why its subjective. Its your opinion. You are not demonstrating that its a statement of fact. You are the one playing with words, and using semantics, and thus equivocating the meanings.

You're still not getting it, are you? It's not an opinion. It's a statement of fact that you hold an opinion. You're telling people what your opinion is. That is an objective statement, because it can be independently verified.
 
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SithDoughnut

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:D. And you think our belief in God is irrational. How is the Flying Spaghetti Monster ever undetectable? We know its Flying, we know its Spaghetti, so we know what to look for.

No, he manifests himself in the form of flying spaghetti, and we name him after his manifestation. His true nature is infinite and impossible to comprehend.

Yeshua is a hypostatical form of the existence of God, and proved that he was not finite in any way shape or form.

He was human. Humans are finite. For example, he wasn't infinitely heavy or large.
 
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No I'm not. My atheism is based upon the fact that there is no evidence for the existence of God. Due to the lack of evidence, it is more rational to reserve judgement or conclude that God's existence is unlikely, than to believe in God.



Debating what objective and subjective mean is semantics.



You're still not getting it, are you? It's not an opinion. It's a statement of fact that you hold an opinion. You're telling people what your opinion is. That is an objective statement, because it can be independently verified.

You're equivocating.

Nobody can read your mind. How can I tell whether you're lying or not?
 
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No, he manifests himself in the form of flying spaghetti, and we name him after his manifestation. His true nature is infinite and impossible to comprehend.

Plenty of eyewitness historical support for this position. Yeshua on the other hand, yeah, he is legitimate.



He was human. Humans are finite. For example, he wasn't infinitely heavy or large.[/

Prove Yeshua, a man who rose from the dead, was finite.
 
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SithDoughnut

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Thats special pleading. We are demonstrating how it does apply. As a matter of fact, you can't make any ANY claim without it.

Just stop using the phrase special pleading, because it's painful how much you misuse it. What were you going to bring it up in relation to, then?
 
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No, he manifests himself in the form of flying spaghetti, and we name him after his manifestation. His true nature is infinite and impossible to comprehend.



He was human. Humans are finite. For example, he wasn't infinitely heavy or large.
God on the other hand is in his primary form ALWAYS the highest form of thought. Also containing other invisible characeteristics, NEVER physical in his totality. He can manifest himself in the form of another form, a fire that led the people of Israel, and a person on several occasions, but the difference is this. He still exists as the invisible quality that he always contains in his essence, regardless of which physical form he takes. He exists in two dimensions. The FSM can only exist in the physical.

FSM does not state anything at all about manifesting himself in the form of flying spaghetti. He is rather defined as Flying Spaghetti. You can't define yourself as something, undefine it, then define yourself again as that something.
 
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SithDoughnut

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Plenty of eyewitness historical support for this position. Yeshua on the other hand, yeah, he is legitimate.

There is little to no historical support for Jesus' existence, let alone his miracles.

Prove Yeshua, a man who rose from the dead, was finite.

He was not infinitely large, nor infinitely heavy.
 
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Where? Point it out so that I can make myself more clear.

Objective = it is true independent of whether you and I believe in it.

Subjective is a belief that you can express. It applies only to you, and nobody else.
 
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There is little to no historical support for Jesus' existence, let alone his miracles.

Really? Prove it. You may put a lot of people out of a job.

To save you the trouble, there is little to no real scholarship for the historical support that Yeshua did not exist.

He was not infinitely large, nor infinitely heavy.

He doesn't have to be. Those are you standards of who God is, not God's as defined in his Word.
 
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SithDoughnut

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God on the other hand is in his primary form ALWAYS the highest form of thought. Also containing other invisible characeteristics, NEVER physical in his totality. He can manifest himself in the form of another form, a fire that led the people of Israel, and a person on several occasions, but the difference is this. He still exists as the invisible quality that he always contains in his essence, regardless of which physical form he takes. He exists in two dimensions. The FSM can only exist in the physical.

FSM does not state anything at all about manifesting himself in the form of flying spaghetti. He is rather defined as Flying Spaghetti. You can't define yourself as something, undefine it, then define yourself again as that something.

Semantics describe concepts. The concepts don't change themselves to fit the semantics. The FSM looks to us like flying spaghetti, because we cannot comprehend his infinite nature. If you want, his manifestations are similar to how Jesus was a manifestation of God. He was part of of the whole.
 
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