20 arguments for the existence of God

[hamashiachagape]

Never claimed subjective=objective, I called for contextualism at best

Yet even Augustine admitted that the truth was adjusted in some ways with those stories. Sacrificing animals is not regarded as pleasing to God today, but it was then. Therefore in that instance, the truth did not change, but at the same time it did in practice at least, if not in principle.

The sacrifices were given to the high priest. Yeshua is our high priest today, we are the temple, and he is the sin sacrifice.

 

[ToHoldNothing]

Well to declare that you would have to show how I'm being inconsistent.

If skepticism was absolutely wrong, you wouldn't say that sometimes skepticism is okay, therefore you appear to have contradicted yourself

 

[KIYX]

Thats where an Ancient Near East understanding comes into play .

Actually cross is never mentioned in the scriptures. Its an execution stake, and they were crucified on trees. Yeshua was hung on a tree. That is cross referenced with the Torah too.

The scriptures never mention the crucifixion?

He wasn't "hung on a tree". He was crucified. Which literally means "Fixed to a cross".

 

[hamashiachagape]

If skepticism was absolutely wrong, you wouldn't say that sometimes skepticism is okay, therefore you appear to have contradicted yourself

It depends on how you apply it. I'm not talking about the position of skepticism. I'm talking about being skeptical of certain things that we can demonstrate are not true.

 

[hamashiachagape]

The scriptures never mention the crucifixion?

He wasn't "hung on a tree". He was crucified. Which literally means "Fixed to a cross".

Yup you got it there . The Greek master speaks.

 

[hamashiachagape]

KIYX, its important to understand the difference between context of what a society was doing in the actual time period, vs tradition.

 

[ToHoldNothing]

The sacrifices were given to the high priest. Yeshua is our high priest today, we are the temple, and he is the sin sacrifice.

In other words, God changes the rules whenever it feels like we've gotten too set in our ways? This is another reason I'd have little reason to believe in anything but a very distant creator, since your creator seems overinvolved and smothering of any creativity that doesn't glorify it.Not to mention the obvious ego issues and general difficulties of anthropomorphizing concepts like justice and goodness and perfection

 

[KIYX]

I definitely know what those religions are. I took college courses in Polytheism.

Then you obviously didn't learn anything.

 

[hamashiachagape]

In other words, God changes the rules whenever it feels like we've gotten too set in our ways? This is another reason I'd have little reason to believe in anything but a very distant creator, since your creator seems overinvolved and smothering of any creativity that doesn't glorify it.Not to mention the obvious ego issues and general difficulties of anthropomorphizing concepts like justice and goodness and perfection

Nope, Leviticus 17:11 still applies.

How is that an ego issue? Being nailed to an execution stake, are you serious? You're applying a human standard to God's standard of righteousness.

 

[hamashiachagape]

Then you obviously didn't learn anything.

. Preach it brother.

 

[ToHoldNothing]

Nope, Leviticus 17:11 still applies.

How is that an ego issue? Being nailed to an execution stake, are you serious? You're applying a human standard to God's standard of righteousness.

Leviticus 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

In short, blood sacrifice is still condoned by God in the 21st century?

 

[hamashiachagape]

Leviticus 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

In short, blood sacrifice is still condoned by God in the 21st century?

Yup, because of Yeshua's sacrifice. It is the renewed covenant between God and mankind.

 

[KIYX]

Please. There is no evidence that they are wrong anyways. There is not enough time between the documents for mythology to creep into their writings.

They contradict each other many many times.

You don't consider 30 years enough time for mythology to creep in? Up until they were written down it was all word of mouth. We all know how well people keep their stories straight.

Easily reconciled.

Not at all. When you cannot keep the most simple things straight it brings the whole story into credibility.

Like the story of Judas.

Talmud,

Which speaks of a man being hung and not crucified.

Josephus

Who basically did nothing but repeat what christians told him.

Yup. Moreso even.

Sweet, show me Jesus's signature.

 

[KIYX]

On the refutation of Zeitgeist:

See - "Zeitgeist" Online Movie: Part One Refuted

And here too - copycat

copycat

Did you bring this up for a reason?

 

[ToHoldNothing]

If Jesus' sacrifice was the blood sacrifice, you just contradicted yourself in saying blood sacrifice is accepted by God according to the verse you quoted

 

[hamashiachagape]

They contradict each other many many times.

Right.

You don't consider 30 years enough time for mythology to creep in? Up until they were written down it was all word of mouth. We all know how well people keep their stories straight.

Not for that time period. It would have quickly been corrected. Plus, I believe in a Hebrewic primacy, which means that the 30 years you are stating would close in way sooner than that, since that is a Greek primacist argument.

Not at all. When you cannot keep the most simple things straight it brings the whole story into credibility.

Right.

Like the story of Judas.

The gospel.

Which speaks of a man being hung and not crucified.

Hung on the stake. You are applying Western Understanding to 1st century Jerusalem.

Who basically did nothing but repeat what christians told him.

Really?

Sweet, show me Jesus's signature.

2nd hand sources were taken more credible during the time period than 1st hand. Socrates is also a good example of this. We have more demonstration, also the evidence from the early church fathers. There is way more evidence for the existence of Yeshua than George Washington. Not to mention, like if Yeshua had signed something you would believe in him either way.

Thanks for showing your understanding of Ancient Near East culture.

 

[hamashiachagape]

If Jesus' sacrifice was the blood sacrifice, you just contradicted yourself in saying blood sacrifice is accepted by God according to the verse you quoted

That doesn't contradict the verse in question.

 

[KIYX]

Thanks for showing your understanding of Ancient Near East culture.

Your dodge was expected.

 

[hamashiachagape]

Your dodge was expected.

See again.

 

[ToHoldNothing]

That doesn't contradict the verse in question.

It contradicts in part, since God no longer wants people to sacrifice animals,but was fine sacrificing its own son for one final sacrifice, going from animal to human barbarism.