2 Thess 2:12 teaches eternal security

LightLoveHope · Nov 27, 2018

What amazes me is even as I share follow Jesus, listen, obey and let Him heal one heart, learn how to love, repent and resolve all the issues in ones life, I am being condemned.

We have spoken freely to you, Corinthians, and opened wide our hearts to you. We are not withholding our affection from you, but you are withholding yours from us. As a fair exchange--I speak as to my children--open wide your hearts also.
2 Cor 6:11-13

I can only conclude these folk do not know the power of God and His overwhelming love and transforming nature. Nothing can stop His love and transformation, and He will reap the harvest He has sown. Amen.

Gr8Grace · Nov 27, 2018

LightLoveHope said:
I find the above so troubling.

Living the spiritual life or living the TRUE Christian way of life is always troubling to those who are 'giving their own best effort.'

LightLoveHope said:
Righteous walking for whatever reason is never wrong.

Righteous walking for salvation or to maintain salvation is very,very WRONG. And as a believer, our righteous walk had better be the by-product of living the Christian way of life. Because righteous walking will never lead to living the Christian way of life.

Righteous walking from the wrong motivation, may look all nice and sweet to us........But God looks at it as dung or used menstrual rags/useless/worthless.

LightLoveHope said:
It is sinful behaviour that leads to judgement.

Why don't you believe the Lord Jesus Christ died for ALL sin? It is a core belief of the Christian.
And why don't you throw out a verse that says unbelievers are judged according to their sins.

Not having eternal life(By never trusting in the Lord Jesus Christ ALONE for their salvation) is why people are sent to the LoF. And when your searching for a verse that teaches what people are judged for.....You will notice they are judged according to their DEEDS not their sins. Since their sins are paid for, they are judged according to their DEEDS that they justified themselves with.
2 Cor 11:15~~New American Standard Bible
Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds.(not sin)

Rev 20:13~~New American Standard Bible
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.

Rev 20:12~~New American Standard Bible
And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.

LightLoveHope said:
Now to point out sin results in judgement is called hating ones brother???

Actually it is called hating Gods word. And it is the epitome of hating our brothers if some self-righteous prig tells other believers that they could be condemned after the Lord Jesus Christ said that they will never perish,have no condemnation, that nothing can separate them from the love of Christ ect.

Sin results in divine discipline,loss of reward,loss of blessing,loss of fellowship,possible physical death and just plain misery in this life.

LightLoveHope said:
How lost are these folk? How empty and deluded can they be?

We have just been showing you a little of the meat. Babes have a hard time handling meat, especially when they haven't even digested the milk yet.
Heb 5:13~~New International Version
Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness.

Living the Spiritual way of life will always result in a righteous walk.

LightLoveHope · Nov 27, 2018

Gr8Grace said:
Righteous walking for salvation or to maintain salvation is very,very WRONG. And as a believer, our righteous walk had better be the by-product of living the Christian way of life. Because righteous walking will never lead to living the Christian way of life.

Righteous walking from the wrong motivation, may look all nice and sweet to us........But God looks at it as dung or used menstrual rags/useless/worthless.

This is the lie of the enemy. Sowing so much condemnation on those who seek good and the best. Theirs is the gospel of the world.

When we say we are good in our selves this were we fail to see it is only Christ at work within us that makes us true. And we must recognise His work and prize the graciousness and love He plants within us. It is in seeing how He transforms us, and to encourage one another that we see we are a people called to heaven, called to the Kingdom, no matter what others might rail and falsely accuse us of.

Whenever anyone condemns good things their heart is dark and light does not dwell there.
Jesus spoke of false teachers with thorns and thistles in their words.
I will encourage anyone to do good and to recognise the need we all have to be empowered by love and God, to continue in the very things we desire.

Another lie spoken is that people walk righteously to earn a place in heaven, not realising both ideas are wrong. You cannot walk righteously without being part of heaven, and the walk demonstrates who you are and what Jesus has made you.

And if these people knew what righteousness was and walked it, they would not speak as they do because they would be condemning themselves. So by their very testimony I know where their hearts are, and that is not a place anyone wants to be or stay.

LightLoveHope · Nov 27, 2018

He has told us that you always have pleasant memories of us and that you long to see us, just as we also long to see you. Therefore, brothers, in all our distress and persecution we were encouraged about you because of your faith. For now we really live, since you are standing firm in the Lord.
1 Thess 3:6-7

Here is Paul praising the faith of the thessalonians and encouraging them to walk deeper in the Lord.

It is strange to be discouraged by those who claim to know the Lord so well, they can stand in judgement over me, tell me how wrong I am, and want me to walk in sin and not righteousness.

Does anyone think this is how God speaks?

So how do we encourage others. By walking in the fruits of the spirit, walking in love and with an open heart. How can anyone claim to know the Lord and oppose such a thing?

FreeGrace2 · Nov 27, 2018

JLB777 said:
Why do you remove words from scripture, to deceive people.

You have to know just how deceitful you are.

You are hilarious.

Or maybe you don’t.

What I know is that you don't believe what Jesus said in Jn 10:28. How is that honest?

If the commandment is to not lie, that means you tell the truth, rather than lying.

How does leaving off the "and" result in a lie? Or a deception? lol

It’s very simple.

What is quite simple is your flagrant disregard of Jesus' words in John 10:28.

Recipients of eternal life shall never perish. No conditions for recipients to meet in order to never perish. Just receiving the gift of eternal life.

You've failed to prove otherwise.

He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:7-8

Looking closely at the beginning of the list in v.8 we find "cowardly" which means lack of faith, followed by "unbelieving". So what results in ending up in the lake of fire is unbelief, in which the gift of eternal life is not given.

Do you know this verse applies to you and I?

It sure might apply to you, because I can only assume about your heart, but it absolutely CANNOT apply to me in any way.

The reason is simple: I have believed on the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation and He gave me the gift of eternal life. Therefore, I shall never perish. He says so.

Maybe you don’t.

Again, I know it cannot apply to me. I have no idea about you. It may apply to you.

Maybe you believe the Bible doesn’t apply to you.

ha ha. Why do you persist in believing that John 10:28 doesn't apply to those given eternal life?

FreeGrace2 · Nov 27, 2018

LightLoveHope said:
You are locked into you are eternal and will never perish no matter what you think, do or become.

The reason is simple. Jesus said so. In John 10:28, a verse that you do not believe.

He said recipients of eternal life shall never perish. John 10:28

According to John 5:24, 6:47, 1 John 5:11, 13, whoever believes HAS (that means current possession) eternal life.

Why do you believe contrary to what Jesus said?

How desperate you are to believe God denies His own nature to appease your conscience.

How desperate you are to believe contrary to what Jesus said.

I'm not trying to "appease my conscience". That is ludicrous. I'm trying to understand and believe the TRUTH. And John 10:28 is truth. Which you don't believe.

I do understand how this logic works.

How can you possibly understand logic, since logic is devoid of emotions or feelings?

LightLoveHope · Nov 27, 2018

FreeGrace2 said:
Why do you believe contrary to what Jesus said?

My friend, listen to Jesus, follow and build your house upon the rock.
That is what matters. If you need the security that will never let you go, even if you want to be free, you can always delude yourself it exists, but no where in the universe does such a thing exist because it denies itself.

You would literally have to hate oneself and all the principles one stands for to accept someone who wants to destroy you, because at some point in the past they were friendly. This is like playing Russian roulet with an automatic.

But this is your self destroying God who you want to say is the great Lord most High.
Why not just put a knife through your hand and say it does not hurt.

Gr8Grace · Nov 27, 2018

LightLoveHope said:
This is the lie of the enemy. Sowing so much condemnation on those who seek good and the best. Theirs is the gospel of the world.

Quit being such a baby and playing the victim card. Nobody is condemning you Peter. It is called REBUKING.
Peter tries his best to follow,love, walk in a pseudo righteousness(Just read all your never ending self righteous posts) and has not a clue how to live the true Christian way of life.(deduced from all your posts and anti-biblical emotions and feelings.)

First and foremost I am here to defend the truth of His word. Second, your the most confused and all over the map believer I have ever met, And I sure would like to help ya out.

Getting saved is simple. Living the Christian way of life is simple. It's the world that has turned it into the whirlwind you espouse.

LightLoveHope · Nov 27, 2018

Gr8Grace said:
Quit being such a baby and playing the victim card. Nobody is condemning you Peter. It is called REBUKING.
Peter tries his best to follow,love, walk in a pseudo righteousness(Just read all your never ending self righteous posts) and has not a clue how to live the true Christian way of life.(deduced from all your posts and anti-biblical emotions and feelings.)

First and foremost I am here to defend the truth of His word. Second, your the most confused and all over the map believer I have ever met, And I sure would like to help ya out.

Getting saved is simple. Living the Christian way of life is simple. It's the world that has turned it into the whirlwind you espouse.

Here is the problem.
You want instant salvation at no cost.
You want goodness without being good.
You want to rubbish anyone who does not agree with the two above.
And the rubbishing is with no restraint and no evidence.

That is just a one way trip no where.
How do you have any rewards in you theology?
Heaven will be a no reward place, because God lied that you are, pure, holy, only partly which for you that means never. And you are talking about rebuking, but to you I have no faith, and you judge me because I say I know my emotions. And the good things I have are Jesus gift and working in my life. If that is evil, then you cannot know Him.

As someone said logic is not emotional, except you can only say that when you are happy.
So much of life is like this. When we are safe, everything is simple. It is why come persecution, then the truth of love will show through if you have it.

FreeGrace2 · Nov 27, 2018

I asked you:
"Why do you believe contrary to what Jesus said?"

LightLoveHope said:
My friend, listen to Jesus, follow and build your house upon the rock.

What kind of "answer" is this to my question?

Can't you answer questions? You believe that a saved person can end up in hell if their lifestyle/behavior takes a nose-dive. But you CAN'T provide any verses that say so.

That is what matters.

Do you seriously believe that disregarding what Jesus said about recipients of eternal life never perishing doesn't matter??

If you need the security that will never let you go, even if you want to be free, you can always delude yourself it exists, but no where in the universe does such a thing exist because it denies itself.

Your psycho-babble is boring. Why do you deny what Jesus said about recipients of eternal life never perishing? How is that not eternal security?

You would literally have to hate oneself and all the principles one stands for to accept someone who wants to destroy you, because at some point in the past they were friendly. This is like playing Russian roulet with an automatic.

You're just not making any sense. Please re-phrase to make your point.

Oh, wait. You never do that.

But this is your self destroying God who you want to say is the great Lord most High.
Why not just put a knife through your hand and say it does not hurt.

You are becoming less and less coherent. Sad.

FreeGrace2 · Nov 27, 2018

LightLoveHope said:
Here is the problem.
You want instant salvation at no cost.

The problem for YOU is that the Bible teaches that salvation is free. Rom 6:23

You want goodness without being good.

No one wants that. You seem to have a big problem with comprehension.

You want to rubbish anyone who does not agree with the two above.
And the rubbishing is with no restraint and no evidence.

You've been given plenty of evidence. It's called Scripture. Something you hardly ever, maybe even never, bother to include in your posts.

LightLoveHope · Nov 27, 2018

Does God love us, or are we just comfort pleasure seekers?

If a guy puts a gun to your head and asks you about Jesus, how do you view it? Express trip to meet the Lord, freedom from this world or terror at having you safety taken away?

When you see the problems and trauma, slavery to sin, pure self pitying of sinful behaviour and no restraint or respect, come Lord Jesus come.

FreeGrace2 · Nov 27, 2018

LightLoveHope said:
Does God love us, or are we just comfort pleasure seekers?

The answer is John 3:16.

If a guy puts a gun to your head and asks you about Jesus, how do you view it?

As an opportunity to evangelize the gunslinger.

Express trip to meet the Lord, freedom from this world or terror at having you safety taken away?

See above. Whether God allows the gunslinger to "express ship" me to heaven is His choice alone. I don't care.

When you see the problems and trauma, slavery to sin, pure self pitying of sinful behaviour and no restraint or respect, come Lord Jesus come.

It seems your answer would be "freedom from this world". Kinda self centered, huh.

LightLoveHope · Nov 27, 2018

FreeGrace2 said:
The problem for YOU is that the Bible teaches that salvation is free. Rom 6:23

No one wants that. You seem to have a big problem with comprehension.

You've been given plenty of evidence. It's called Scripture. Something you hardly ever, maybe even never, bother to include in your posts.

Salvation is not free. God opens the door freely, but we have to die with Christ.
The problem is you are blind in your heart. I know this because you do not see what I see.
I see you, a converted conformist, a churchman who woke up.
But you woke up only to being a sinner, and justifying your sinful behaviour.
In your eyes I could kill you, not repent and still be saved.

It is this nuts, a psychotic break between love in the heart and behaviour.
Love will never murder you, or hate you, just weep over your lost soul wanting to blame others for you lost years, while still being lost. I cannot even get angry for persecuting me over righteous walking.

Only sinners do this. How could it be a ministry of a gift of the Holy Spirit?
What are you proving? You know how to show disdain and put pointed words together?
That is emotion, that rises in you, yet you deny its existence. So controlled by it are you.

Just follow and listen to Jesus with an open heart.

FreeGrace2 · Nov 27, 2018

LightLoveHope said:
Salvation is not free.

Rom 6:23 says quite plainly that the free gift of God is eternal life. It that isn't free, then what is it?

It's just real sad that you have such a low view of Scripture.

God opens the door freely, but we have to die with Christ.

Quote any verse that says we have to die with Christ to be saved.

LightLoveHope · Nov 27, 2018

Some say we are free.
We are slaves to Christ, slaves to righteousness, bound in heart and soul to love, dying to this world, carrying a cross, denying self and living to Him.

So it is both free and costly, able to choose but only choosing in love and His will.
Not easy to grasp, a living abiding in love and change.

And the lost will always stumble along, with there points that are frozen like there hearts, trapped in behaviours that their emotions emprision them in. They know the words of others have power from the heart, and they wonder how it could be, but if they opened up, bowed the knee and asked Him in, then it would begin. But maybe the elect alone hear and see, so the Lords will prevails.

The apostles saw it like this, we burn as lights, and the called answer. Amen, glory to His name.

JLHargus · Nov 27, 2018

OSAS actually contradicts the following scriptures among many others. God protects our salvation giving us the grace and a way out of every temptation. He gives us the grace, but we have free will, to choose life or death with every temptation. So we have no excuse. God never forces anyone not to sin but provides away out.

God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.] God never violates our free will to choose life or death.

[2Pt2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.]

[Hb6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened , and have tasted of the Heavenly Gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, andthe powers of the world to come, 6 if they shall fall away, to renew them Again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.]

Are the unsaved enlightened? Can the unsaved taste of the heavenly gift? Can the unsaved partake of the Holy Spirit? Can the unsaved taste the good Word of God and powers of the world to come or would it be bad tasting to them? Can the unsaved fall away from all these things if they have never possessed them in the first place? Only the saved can possess these things and fall away crucifying Christ afresh.

Lk8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.]

[1Cor6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not decieved: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,] How many times does one have to be a fornicator, to be unrighteous? How many times does one have to be an idolater to be unrighteous?

[Gal5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.] How many times can one murder, engage in adultery, etc. to do the works of the flesh and not inherit the kingdom?

[Jms1:14 But every man is tempted, When he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and Sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth Death.]

[1Jn2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.]

If one can’t lose salvation what’s the point of having an advocate and propitiation for the sins of the saved?

[Gal6:7 be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.]

Gr8Grace · Nov 27, 2018

LightLoveHope said:
Here is the problem.
You want instant salvation at no cost.

You want salvation at your cost. I KNOW that I have salvation at HIS COST. Christ was ripped to the bone by a whip, spit upon, falsely accused, had his beard plucked out, nailed to a tree through his feet and hands, humiliated, had a crown of thorns pushed on his head,was left to die miserably on a tree, And was FORSAKEN by His Father...............all for us sinners......And YOU want to count your cost? Give me a break Peter. Get back to Christ, and throw your 'cost' out the window.

Gr8Grace · Nov 27, 2018

FreeGrace2 said:
The problem for YOU is that the Bible teaches that salvation is free. Rom 6:23

No one wants that. You seem to have a big problem with comprehension.

You've been given plenty of evidence. It's called Scripture. Something you hardly ever, maybe even never, bother to include in your posts.

It is nuts to witness this at times. These are people who obviously function in society and will rebuke someone in society that says 2+2 is 10.......But when it comes to the bible CLEARLY saying 2+2=4 they turn into a brain numb zombie! It is amazing to watch.

Gr8Grace · Nov 27, 2018

LightLoveHope said:
Salvation is not free.

Your darn right it isn't. He went through hell for you. Salvation is free for you and I.........Because of the SUPREME SACRIFICE HE paid for us.

You think you can add to it?

2 Thess 2:12 teaches eternal security

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