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2 Peter 3:9

Zacharias

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Well, we're powerless to ultimately defy God's will, but clearly all sin is against God's will, and to demonstrate -- people sin.

I think that's what Beoga's asking about -- how you resolve God's will that we not sin, with the fact that we sin.

We, in our fallen nature, can do no good apart from God. God's will is that ultimately, in the end, all His elect be made perfect. We know that Good hardened pharaoh's heart to make him rebel against God's command. :)
 
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heymikey80

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We, in our fallen nature, can do no good apart from God. God's will is that ultimately, in the end, all His elect be made perfect. We know that Good hardened pharaoh's heart to make him rebel against God's command. :)
That's good, man. I'm not saying anything is particularly wrong with your answers, either. It's more trying to discern what people are asking by their questions. Often even the question comes out of left field, and I'm not certain how to answer, I have to ask more questions.

Maybe Beoga will respond about this -- whether he's talking about the purity of our actions, or about the freedom of our actions. I'm not sure exactly which he's asking, so I'll stop putting words in everyone's mouths.:blush:

Some interesting resources for more on this issue:

The Reformed Doctrine of Predestination, Loraine Boettner's masterful explanation of TULIP. I owe plenty to his words. Its sections on fatalism and free agency are worth their weight in gold (and separately, pretty short) for questions on how God moves and has control over His Creation. His section on Limited Atonement is right at the top of my list, too.

Eternal Predestination and Secret Providence , two of Calvin's last treatises, both written with some anger. If you're good at throwing away the rancor, Calvin's argument becomes crystal clear here, and hard as diamond.
 
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Zacharias

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That's good, man. I'm not saying anything is particularly wrong with your answers, either. It's more trying to discern what people are asking by their questions. Often even the question comes out of left field, and I'm not certain how to answer, I have to ask more questions.

Maybe Beoga will respond about this -- whether he's talking about the purity of our actions, or about the freedom of our actions. I'm not sure exactly which he's asking, so I'll stop putting words in everyone's mouths.:blush:

I think it easier to explain Calvinism in person then over the web. There is not a verse to disprove Calvinism in the Bible (some such as 2 Peter 3:9 seem to disprove it and get prove even more). There are, however, lots of verses that an Arminian will ignore because he simply can not answer it. :)
 
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Beoga

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God has one will. We are powerless to go against it. Whatever happens is God's will.

In the end brother I am sure we are saying the same thing. I too affirm that whatever the Lord pleases that He does. And anything that happens, good or bad, does so because it was worked out by God according to his decretive will. I was wondering though if you saw a difference between his preceptive will (for example God's will in the ten commandments and how He commands all men to obey them), which may not always come to pass, and God's decretive will, which always comes to pass.
 
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