2 kinds of Holy Spirit Fillings

[topher694]

Thank you for repeating the answer. It brings back the question again of what Jesus was speaking of when He said “Receive the Holy Spirit”? He didn’t say wait, the term was present tense.

can you please explain what Jesus was speaking of?

What are you trying to get at?

 

[Always in His Presence]

You can't rely on Greek tenses over this, nice try.

When was The Holy Spirit poured out?

I'll answer that for you,...

Act 2:33 Being therefore by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath poured forth this, which ye see and hear.

It didn't happen prior to Acts 2, sorry.

Your lack of response is duly noted.

I personally believe Christ - when He breathed on the disciples and said "receive the Holy Spirit" I believe that is EXACTLY what happened. They received the Holy Spirit. I don't have the authority to change scripture.

I also believe that days later the promise of the Father fell on the 120 on the Day of Pentecost and they received power to be witnesses.

 

[Always in His Presence]

What are you trying to get at?

I am pointing out an event of Jesus breathing on His disciples received the Holy Spirit days before Acts 2. It demonstrates multiple events of the Spirit in scripture. I am attempting to engage in a thoughtful exchange of knowledge.

 

[Always in His Presence]

You can't rely on Greek tenses over this, nice try.

Why can I not rely on tenses? Explain.

 

[ARBITER01]

Round and round it goes.

Your lack of response is duly noted.

I personally believe Christ - when He breathed on the disciples and said "receive the Holy Spirit" I believe that is EXACTLY what happened. They received the Holy Spirit. I don't have the authority to change scripture.

I also believe that days later the promise of the Father fell on the 120 on the Day of Pentecost and they received power to be witnesses.

The problem with your "assumption" over this is that there is no documented event of that happening in any of the gospel accounts.

The reason why your Greek tenses don't work on this is because Jesus gave a commandment about receiving The Holy Spirit, and that commandment was fulfilled over in acts 2.

Again, Jesus told them they would be "immersed" in The Holy Spirit not many days hence, and that is the born again experience where their human spirits were renewed. It didn't happen prior to this like you want to think.

 

[ARBITER01]

What are you trying to get at?

He probably was never challenged over this doctrinal stance before.

It's an outlier type doctrinal stance that requires a person to "assume" that they received The Holy Spirit at that very point rather than over in acts with the rest of the 120.

 

[topher694]

I am pointing out an event of Jesus breathing on His disciples received the Holy Spirit days before Acts 2. It demonstrates multiple events of the Spirit in scripture. I am attempting to engage in a thoughtful exchange of knowledge.

What about Thomas?

 

[Peter J Barban]

Your lack of response is duly noted.

I personally believe Christ - when He breathed on the disciples and said "receive the Holy Spirit" I believe that is EXACTLY what happened. They received the Holy Spirit. I don't have the authority to change scripture.

I also believe that days later the promise of the Father fell on the 120 on the Day of Pentecost and they received power to be witnesses.

That is also what I believe. It's the simplest view of events.

And if someone disagrees, does it make any practical difference?

We all want life abundant, yet few experience it. Hopefully, we can find what works because it is true and what doesn't because it isn't.

 

[Peter J Barban]

What happens when you do not feel it? Do you wait until you do?

I have begun preaching without feeling the anointing, but it always shows up during the preaching. Every time, so far.

A few years ago I changed my preaching style from topical exhortation to teaching Scripture from the pulpit. That puts less pressure on me to "perform a typical sermon" and even if the anointing never comes, people will still get the word of God explained from a safe Traditional Reformed point of view.

I seem to always have had some power via my spiritual gifts even as a new Christian, but later I was repeatedly filled with the Spirit. Now, the power is greater, though it doesn't always have the same effect on me or my listeners.

Talking about this with other leaders is not helpful. Showing it to them is much better. The only ones who don't like my ministry are those who have rejected the Bible as God's word. But they would have the same issue if I had no power from God.

 

[Hark]

Again, those passages are talking about the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, not the infilling. Being filled with the Holy Spirit is a different experience. Here are a couple of good articles on the difference between the two:

& @Peter J Barban

Thank you for sharing but since you disagree with the plainness of scripture reproving why you are misapplying scripture in Acts and elsewhere'....

I do not see how you are not ignoring the warnings from Paul about preaching another Jesus & another spirit per 2 Corinthians 11:3-4 when you preach for believers to seek another infilling of the Holy Spirit. You either have Him or you don't since salvation for why that cannot be the Holy Spirit, let alone a continual filling of.

How is that not after the rudiment of the world in how mediums receives spirits again and again and again? John 14:16-17 is Jesus explaining that is not how we will receive the Holy Spirit, but knowing Him as dwelling in us since salvation.

And what about John's warning about not believing every spirit but test them by knowing Jesus Christ is in you for how you can know that which is outside of you & / or coming over you again is NOT the REAL Holy Spirit but the spirit of the antichrist per 1 John 4:1-4? The way you are going, you are believing ever spirit coming over you to be of God.

Khundalini , and eastern mysticism that had existed before Christ, meditate into a trance to receive power, fire, and other physical manifestations and some scary that a believer that follows that same rudiment in seeking another spirit to receive like strength, joy, peace, or even a sensation of love are forgetting the warning about seducing spirits per 1 Timothy 4:1-2.

So there can be no compromise here for why you are misapplying scriptures because you want to believe this continual filling of the Holy Spirit to be of God when it is not. How can sinners that come out of Khundalini prove they have repented? How can sinners coming out of Khundalini know they are receiving the Holy Spirit again and again and again if they receive Him as they do the spirits of the world?

How can you prove all things and abstain from all appearances of evil if there is a continual filling of the Spirit to be had after salvation? You can't.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. 23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

Note this warning about the antichrists as I see wayward believers falling away from what we are all to share in 1 Corinthians 12:13 by preaching another gospel by preaching a continual filling of the Spirit.

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. 20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. 21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth. 22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life. 26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. 27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. 28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

I see this extra calling for why the "foolish virgins" are out at the market seeking to be filled for why they were not ready as abiding in Him when the Bridegroom comes.

Please repent & return to your first love and rest in Jesus Christ as Spirit-filled by no more seeking a continual filling of the Spirit because Jesus Christ has been in you since salvation.

Ephesians 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Colossians 2:5 For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ. 6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: 7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

See how Colossians 2:5-10 rebukes any notion of a need for a continual filling when you are complete that there is no other calling for believers to heed, not even continually?

That is why believers read their extra experiences into the Book of Acts and do not see them as going out from us as in departing from this testimony we all are suppose to share.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

 

[Peter J Barban]

& @Peter J Barban

Thank you for sharing but since you disagree with the plainness of scripture reproving why you are misapplying scripture in Acts and elsewhere'

I do not see how are not ignoring the warnings from Paul about preaching another Jesus & another spirit per 2 Corinthians 11:3-4 when you preach for believers to seek another infilling of the Holy Spirit. You either have Him or you don't since salvation for why that cannot be the Holy Spirit, let alone a continual filling of.

How is that not after the rudiment of the world in how mediums receives spirits again and again and again? John 14:16-17 is Jesus explaining that is not how we will receive the Holy Spirit, but knowing Him as dwelling in us since salvation.

And what about John's warning about not believing every spirit but test them by knowing Jesus Christ is in you for how you can know that which is outside of you & / or coming over you again is NOT the REAL Holy Spirit but the spirit of the antichrist per 1 John 4:1-4? The way you are going, you are believing ever spirit coming over you to be of God.

Khundalini , and eastern mysticism that had existed before Christ, meditate into a trance to receive power, fire, and other physical manifestations and some scary that a believer that follows that same rudiment in seeking another spirit to receive like strength, joy, peace, or even a sensation of love are forgetting the warning about seducing spirits per 1 Timothy 4:1-2.

So there can be no compromise here for why you are misapplying scriptures because you want to believe this continual filling of the Holy Spirit to be of God when it is not. How can sinners that come out of Khundalini prove they have repented? How can sinners coming out of Khundalini know they are receiving the Holy Spirit again and again and again if they receive Him as they do the spirits of the world?

How can you prove all things and abstain from all appearances of evil if there is a continual filling of the Spirit to be had after salvation? You can't.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. 23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

Note this warning about the antichrists as I see wayward believers falling away from what we are all to share in 1 Corinthians 12:13 by preaching another gospel by preaching a continual filling of the Spirit.

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. 20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. 21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth. 22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life. 26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. 27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. 28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

I see this extra calling for why the "foolish virgins" are out at the market seeking to be filled for why they were not ready as abiding in Him when the Bridegroom comes.

Please repent & return to your first love and rest in Jesus Christ as Spirit-filled by no more seeking a continual filling of the Spirit because Jesus Christ has been in you since salvation.

Ephesians 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Colossians 2:5 For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ. 6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: 7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

See how Colossians 2:5-10 rebukes any notion of a need for a continual filling when you are complete that there is no other calling for believers to heed, not even continually?

That is why believers read their extra experiences into the Book of Acts and do not see them as going out from us as in departing from this testimony we all are suppose to share.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Just a small note. I have never taught or encouraged others to seek more anointing. I don't even tell most people about it. I'm just giving you my experience because you asked.

I am more interested in teaching the Bible from a reformed perspective and keeping in step with the spirit.

If you are interested, I can find an old sermon I did and post it here for your judgment.

 

[Hark]

Just small note. I have never taught or encouraged others to seek more anointing. I don't even tell most people about it. I'm just giving you my experience because you asked.

I am more interested in teaching the Bible from a reformed perspective and keeping in step with the spirit.

If you are interested, I can find an old sermon I did and post it here for your judgment.

Thank you for the offer but my contention is the same for more anointing as it is for more filling of the Spirit as those extra experiences cannot be of Him and the scripture in post #93 proves that.

Only God can cause the increase for you to see the truth in His words in order to test those spirits.

 

[Peter J Barban]

Thank you for the offer but my contention is the same for more anointing as it is for more filling of the Spirit as those extra experiences cannot be of Him and the scripture in post #93 proves that.

Only God can cause the increase for you to see the truth in His words in order to test those spirits.

I would be very concerned about your baseless attacks if anyone took you seriously.

 

[Peter J Barban]

Going back to my OP, the Bible speaks of two kinds of filling, one spontaneous and one continual using different Greek tenses (but I am not a Greek scholar, so I will take their word for it.)

"Bengel's Gnomen
Acts 4:8. Πλησθεὶς, being filled) at that very moment. The power which was dwelling in him put itself forth. So ch. Acts 13:9. As the existing time (exigency) in each instance demands, so GOD moves His instruments. But πλήρης, full, when used, expresses habitual fulness: Acts 6:3; Acts 6:5, “Stephen—full (πλήρη) of faith and of the Holy Ghost.”..."
Acts 4:8 Commentaries: Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, "Rulers and elders of the people,

Basically, Peter was spontaneously filled in Acts 4:8, and Paul was spontaneously filled in Acts 13:9.
This filling is apparently temporary and given for specific actions. There is no implication that this is a new spirit or even a new addition of the Holy Spirit that was not already there. Rather it is the same Holy Spirit, present since salvation, manifesting Himself in power in the believer.

But Stephen was continuously filled in Acts 6:3-5. This filling represents character transformed by a life of obedience to the Holy Spirit.

 

[Always in His Presence]

The problem with your "assumption" over this is that there is no documented event of that happening in any of the gospel accounts.

John 20 is a Gospel account and the words are plainly stated by Christ. No assumption there whatsoever. The event I am addressing is a literal event that happened prior to Acts 2.

i know it doesn’t fit your theology, but it is there, it is true. Perhaps there is more than one event with the Holy Spirit that they experienced?

 

[Always in His Presence]

What about Thomas?

What about him? Please provide more of what you are thinking so I can respond correctly. Thank you

 

[Always in His Presence]

Again, Jesus told them they would be "immersed" in The Holy Spirit not many days hence, and that is the born again experience where their human spirits were renewed. It didn't happen prior to this like you want to think.

Acts 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
​

Absolutely correct - the baptism Jesus spoke of happened after He breathed on them and said "Receive ye the Holy Ghost" - That makes it even clearer that there was two separate events happening.

Interesting to note also - Batpism

The Greek word βαπτίζω that is transliterated baptizo - and then translated baptism has several meanings.

βαπτίζω baptízō, bap-tid'-zo; from a derivative of G911; to immerse, submerge; to make whelmed
​

I find it interesting the word 'whelmed' is also used. It means to engulf completely, it is where we get the modern term overwhelmed.

An aside observation. I received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit about a year after I received Salvation. I remember distinctly being completely overwhelmed by the Presence of God, it felt as if I was immersed into Him in a way that is still with me today. Was I born again before that point - yes! I accepted the Gift of Grace on October 14, 1985. It was from that moment I knew I was set free and a child of God. My repentance and turning from my past was evident to not just myself, but everyone around me. But most of all because I had the Word of God on the matter. I could hear His voice in my heart from day one.

Look at what Paul prayed for the believers at Ephasus:

Eph 3:14 For this reason I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 from whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, 16 that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man, 17 that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height— 19 to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.​

He is writing to the 'saints' at Ephasus - the born again believers. Note, he is praying that they would be (not are), would be filled with all the fullness of God.

 

[ARBITER01]

Acts 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
​

Absolutely correct - the baptism Jesus spoke of happened after He breathed on them and said "Receive ye the Holy Ghost" - That makes it even clearer that there was two separate events happening.

Interesting to note also - Batpism

The Greek word βαπτίζω that is transliterated baptizo - and then translated baptism has several meanings.

βαπτίζω baptízō, bap-tid'-zo; from a derivative of G911; to immerse, submerge; to make whelmed
​

I find it interesting the word 'whelmed' is also used. It means to engulf completely, it is where we get the modern term overwhelmed.

An aside observation. I received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit about a year after I received Salvation. I remember distinctly being completely overwhelmed by the Presence of God, it felt as if I was immersed into Him in a way that is still with me today. Was I born again before that point - yes! I accepted the Gift of Grace on October 14, 1985. It was from that moment I knew I was set free and a child of God. My repentance and turning from my past was evident to not just myself, but everyone around me. But most of all because I had the Word of God on the matter. I could hear His voice in my heart from day one.

Look at what Paul prayed for the believers at Ephasus:

Eph 3:14 For this reason I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 from whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, 16 that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man, 17 that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height— 19 to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.​

He is writing to the 'saints' at Ephasus - the born again believers. Note, he is praying that they would be (not are), would be filled with all the fullness of God.

You using old translations.

Pay attention to what Jesus said here,..

Act 1:5 because John, indeed, immersed in water, but ye shall be immersed in the Holy Spirit, not many days hence."

There is only one immersion/baptism that adopts us into the kingdom of GOD, and that is the born again immersion into the forgiveness of our sins,..

1Co 12:13 for, indeed, by one Spirit were we all immersed into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free; and were all made to drink of one Spirit.

He's not talking about the subsequent "filling" of The Spirit, Paul is talking about the initial born again immersion of The Spirit.

I've constantly posted this section of scripture to you for a very good reason, because there is only one Spiritual immersion in a Christian's life by scripture, and what happens after that is a filling.

Additionally, Jesus stated that He had to go away first for The Holy Spirit to arrive,..

Joh 15:26 "When the Advocate shall come, Whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, Who proceedeth from the Father, He will testify concerning Me;

Joh 16:5 And now I go to Him Who sent Me; and no one of you asks Me, 'Whither goest Thou?'
Joh 16:6 But, because I have spoken these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart.
Joh 16:7 But I tell you the truth: it is expedient for you that I go away; for, if I do not go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but, if I go, I will send Him to you,
Joh 16:8 And, having come, He will convict the world respecting sin, and righteousness, and judgment:
Joh 16:9 respecting sin, because they believe not on Me;

So in the book of acts we have Jesus going to The Father in Acts 1, and then The Holy Spirit arriving in Acts 2. There's no mention of The Holy Spirit arriving and being given out before this to the 120.

 

[topher694]

What about him? Please provide more of what you are thinking so I can respond correctly. Thank you

The same could be said about some of your posts.

Thomas wasn't there for John 20:22. Did he not get the Holy Spirit? Was he just out of luck?

 

[ARBITER01]

The same could be said about some of your posts.

Thomas wasn't there for John 20:22. Did he not get the Holy Spirit? Was he just out of luck?

Good point,... and neither were the rest of the 120.