$15 dollars an hour for the minimum wage?

[bhsmte]

I'm going to make a sort of contrarian argument.

If many employees do not produce $12.71 then a lot do not produce $15.00.

So why would employers hire at that cost? The only thing I can think of is as an investment, that the employer expects to gain en employee who in the future will make them money.

The good side is employers will be more concerned with developing employees who are skilled and productive.

The downside ironically is to those that it seems are the ones that those pushing minimum wage increases seek to help. Those may get hired, but after a short bit of training and no improvement they will be fired.

A high minimum wage means companies cannot afford to keep an employee who stays unskilled.

I agree and the 15 an hour number would put some companies out of business who are on the edge and that helps no one.

This is a bit idealistic, but I would be all for something like a profit sharing plan. This way, employees have some skin in the game and have motivation to do a good job and help their company to be profitable. A portion of a companies profits, could be ear marked for distribution to employees in good standing on a quarterly basis.

 

[Rubiks]

Why do you feel this is somehow a valid argument against raising the minimum wage? Perhaps we could find a comfortable middle ground between the $4000 a week you suggest and the $290 a week they earn now?

I don't have anything against raising the minimum wage. What I'm saying it that raising the minimum wage is not always a good thing.

 

[AvilaSurfer]

Denseness abounds.

 

[1Feather]

Wasn't it in California that the McDonald's workers wanted $17.00 an hour minimum wage?
Can you imagine $15.00, and that at 40 hours per week gross and what it would net after taxes? Yes, it may help people out. But it would increase the cost of patronizing businesses as well so that the companies could recoup.

If McD workers got their way a Big Mac would skyrocket. And it's hardly anything in worth now for the price of it.
All else, goods and services, would jump in price too.

Fast food workers want national minimum wage to be increased to $15 an hour.

Minimum wage job-the worker with only basic high school education or less, no specialty training, no job experience. Basically the equivalent to a high school student no matter what age.
Adult:
$15 an hour, 40 hours a week, 52 weeks a year=$31,200
$15 an hour, 30 hours a week(to avoid insurance) 52 weeks=$23,400
underage:
$15/hour, 20 hours a week, 52 weeks a year=$15,600

This is the lowest pay an individual should be paid? No education, no experience, no training, no demonstrated work ethic?

Now when the minimum wage goes up, the jobs swollowed up won't usually increase their pay, so everyone becomes minimum wage employees. Few if any above minimum wage will increase, so minimum wage drops everyone on the ladder down towards minimum wage.

Nothing happens in a vaccum, so increased costs per employee means higher costs in the finished product. Some decrease in the pay, of higher ups, might occur but they aren't going to take much of a cut.

So lets look at the increase for a 10 employee store.
7.25/hr, 40 hrs-52 weeks=$15,080, annual wage budget-$150,800
15/hr as above=$31,200, annual wage budget=$312,000
no increase in profit or change in product, increased cost is $161,200


Can't people see the possibility for a huge cut in jobs? Above instance, the budget would allow for 5 employees to continue and that would still add costs, so probably 4 full time employees and 1 part time would be left after the cuts.

--Obamacare will add costs to employ also but lets stay with minimum wage. Feel free to start a thread on costs of Obamacare to employ.--

I saw this:
Majority of Americans want minimum wage to be increased, poll finds - The Washington Post

"O" wants $10.10, not doubling the minimum wage, but still a sizable increase.
annual wages=21008.
(7x21008=147,056)
So in the example above, 7 employees could remain, 3 would have to go.

 

[1Sam15]

Wasn't it in California that the McDonald's workers wanted $17.00 an hour minimum wage?
Can you imagine $15.00, and that at 40 hours per week gross and what it would net after taxes? Yes, it may help people out. But it would increase the cost of patronizing businesses as well so that the companies could recoup.

If McD workers got their way a Big Mac would skyrocket. And it's hardly anything in worth now for the price of it.
All else, goods and services, would jump in price too.

So instead of paying up front for our Big Mac we pay more for people forced onto social services....or worse we have to pay in a million other ways for a workforce increasingly forced to live a subsistence existence.

I dunno but I'm not particularly fond of getting my delicious hamburger and fries knowing the person behind the counter is likely desperately ill because of lack of healthcare or doing an even worse job because they are having to work 3 fulltime jobs to stay alive.

I think I'd pay more for it.

My question: who wouldn't?

 

[kermit]

I dunno but I'm not particularly fond of getting my delicious hamburger and fries knowing the person behind the counter is likely desperately ill because of lack of healthcare or doing an even worse job because they are having to work 3 fulltime jobs to stay alive.

The public health risk of underpaid food workers going to work sick is something I hadn't concidered, but it's worth concideration in this debate.

 

[AceHero]

While I'm not sure that $15/hr makes sense for a national minimum wage I find the objections to a living wage odd. Nearly all working people receive enough money to live. For many, part of that money comes from taxpayers. So if a person need, for argument sake. $10/hr to live in an area and the minimum wage is $7.25 that means that they recieve $2.75/hr from taxpayers. The question then becomes why are taxpayers subsidizing businesses in this way?

The right had a huge problem with TARP and the auto bailout, but seems perfectly fine with tremendous and ongoing payroll subsidies going to businesses that employee minimimum wage earners, some of which are highly profitable.

It's currently being challenged in court, but the people of Seatac, Washington voted to pay hospitality and transportation workers $15 an hour, plus:

In addition to a $15 minimum wage, Proposition 1 requires affected employers to provide paid sick leave, promote part-time workers to full-time before hiring additional part-timers and retain employees for at least 90 days after an ownership change. Those requirements can be waived in a union contract.

It'll be interesting to see what happens.

 

[AceHero]

Wasn't it in California that the McDonald's workers wanted $17.00 an hour minimum wage?
Can you imagine $15.00, and that at 40 hours per week gross and what it would net after taxes? Yes, it may help people out. But it would increase the cost of patronizing businesses as well so that the companies could recoup.

If McD workers got their way a Big Mac would skyrocket. And it's hardly anything in worth now for the price of it.
All else, goods and services, would jump in price too.

As I've mentioned elsewhere before, this new fast food chain in Michigan starts all of their workers at $15 an hour:

I had my reservations about Brian Parker, co-founder of Moo Cluck Moo, and his eagerness to pay $15 an hour for work being done for $7.40 hourly at almost every fast food restaurant in the region.

...

Employees at Moo Cluck Moo make $15 an hour or about $31,000 a year. In comparison, a rookie Detroit police officer starts off at about $30,000. A newbie teacher in Detroit starts around $38,000. A cub reporter at a daily newspaper averages about $28,000 a year.

The impact of their higher-than-average salaries is not lost on Moo Cluck Moo's employees.

Lindsay Senia, 23, says she is able to pay her tuition out-of-pocket instead of taking out student loans.
Jennifer Aguilar is able to send her son to Boy Scout camp and can afford to send her daughter to cheerleading camp.

“I love what I do every day and this is very important for me,” Aguilar said. “I can do things for my children that I couldn’t do as a kid.”

Both employees have worked at Moo Cluck Moo since the restaurant’s opening and neither plans to leave anytime soon.

...

“I’m taking less money personally,” he said. “My question is, how much do we have to make? How big of a pile of money do CEOs have to sit on?”

Parker’s belief is that if he takes care of his employees, they will return the favor through hard work, loyalty and improved customer service.

 

[technofox]

As I've mentioned elsewhere before, this new fast food chain in Michigan starts all of their workers at $15 an hour:

That guy who started Moo Cluck Moo must have read Dr. Edward Deming's books. I bet his company will be successful in the long run and over take cheap competitors due to quality.

 

[Saleena]

Better do something soon, the poor are getting restless. *sharpens her guillotine* Somehow I feel heads will roll.

 

[AceHero]

As I've mentioned elsewhere before, this new fast food chain in Michigan starts all of their workers at $15 an hour:

That guy who started Moo Cluck Moo must have read Dr. Edward Deming's books. I bet his company will be successful in the long run and over take cheap competitors due to quality.

I'd never heard of him until you mentioned him, but he sounded like a really interesting guy:

William Edwards Deming (October 14, 1900 – December 20, 1993) was an American statistician, professor, author, lecturer, and consultant. He is perhaps best known for the "Plan-Do-Check-Act" cycle popularly named after him. In Japan, from 1950 onward, he taught top business managers how to improve design (and thus service), product quality, testing, and sales (the last through global markets)[1] by various means, including the application of statistical methods.

Deming made a significant contribution to Japan's later reputation for innovative, high-quality products, and for its economic power. He is regarded as having had more impact upon Japanese manufacturing and business than any other individual not of Japanese heritage. Despite being considered somewhat of a hero in Japan, he was only just beginning to win widespread recognition in the U.S. at the time of his death.[2] President Reagan awarded him the National Medal of Technology in 1987. The following year, Deming also received the Distinguished Career in Science award from the National Academy of Sciences.

 

[Jeffwhosoever]

Better do something soon, the poor are getting restless. *sharpens her guillotine* Somehow I feel heads will roll.

Smoke and mirrors to rally the base. Nothing more.

 

[Sketcher]

Multiply my wage by the same factor without inflating the currency, and then I'm OK with it.

 

[Panzerkamfwagen]

It's currently being challenged in court, but the people of Seatac, Washington voted to pay hospitality and transportation workers $15 an hour, plus:

​

It'll be interesting to see what happens.

Sounds like they're asking to be replaced with automatic kiosks.

Better do something soon, the poor are getting restless. *sharpens her guillotine* Somehow I feel heads will roll.

Shoulder thing that goes up > guillotine.

 

[Avniel]

Congress Has Already Raised the Minimum Wage Above $10


***Note-I quote the article for the specific paragraphs, I do not want to discuss Obamacare in this thread.

Minimum wage is meant for employees with no work ethic, work history, or education, it is not meant to live on nor should it be. If you show up and do the job properly you should get a raise or you should seek a better job.
Why? Because better experience, work ethic, education means your worth more then the rest of the minimum wagers.

Horrible horrible statement when my grandparents came to this country they both made minimum wage when my grandpa passed he left me with a large sum for inheritance, they own a half a million dollar home, he became an accountant for a high fashion pocketbook company and she was a nurse. Minimum wage can be for people that are struggling, just was laid off and or recent college grads in between college and grad school. What an elitist attitude.

 

[MrLuther]

Better do something soon, the poor are getting restless. *sharpens her guillotine* Somehow I feel heads will roll.

So....calling for murder is allowed here on CF?

 

[technofox]

So....calling for murder is allowed here on CF?

I don't consider violent revolutions murder. It's more of a consequence for not listening to the problems of the people.

I hope the US doesn't need violent revolution to make political changes to help make our country a better place, but the current way things are going I would not be surprised if it happened either. The political divide alone is enough to split this country in half. I just wish people could work together as we need the best and brightest from both sides of the aisle to work together for the benefit of all.

 

[St. Paul]

Ha! Tell that to the thousands of Walmart workers, those very folks who need to have their employers wage subsidized by our tax dollars in the form of SNAP, housing help, and WIC.

Exactly. Why should I pay for it when walmart is a billion dollar corporation. They shouldn't be able to milk the system.

 

[[serious]]

We do need to raise the minimum wage. We should set it to a minimum living wage and include automatic COLAs. Indexing to inflation would be fine with me as well.

 

[MrLuther]

I don't consider violent revolutions murder. It's more of a consequence for not listening to the problems of the people.

I hope the US doesn't need violent revolution to make political changes to help make our country a better place, but the current way things are going I would not be surprised if it happened either. The political divide alone is enough to split this country in half. I just wish people could work together as we need the best and brightest from both sides of the aisle to work together for the benefit of all.

So, you wouldn't have a problem with someone saying:
"I don't consider killing someone who supports violent revolution murder" either, right?
At least THAT position is more tenable than the other one. Do YOU deserve to be killed because of your acceptance of killing those who disagree with you?

And just so whiners won't report me: I do not support any kind of political violence to get one's way.