$15 Dollar per hour minimum wage your Thoughts?

[keith99]

I lived in California in the bay area and in Los Angeles. Sales tax applied to various sorts of food items, to clothing, footwear, McDonalds fast foods, tacos, and probably all other fast foods.

It is common for governments to shift tax from income to consumption because consumption taxes are easier to collect - they use shop keepers as collectors - and because it hits everybody who consumes in their jurisdiction. Of course consumption taxes are referred to as flat taxes or retrograde taxes because they disproportionately tax low income households - low income households spend close to every dollar that they earn while high income households have a great deal of discretionary spending and hence save a great deal.

In all of this the basic moral principle that a worker is worthy of his wages and the means of life must not be withheld from the poor seems to be ignored. I can understand an atheist arguing for low wages and high taxation for the poor because there is no necessary link between their system of morals and godly justice but for christians it seems almost monstrous to be arguing for low wages and high taxation for the poor.

Nope, not all fast foods. Just hot food at least for fast food places who do the paperwork right. It was interesting at Subway, if they ran a sandwich that was usually cold through their toaster they were supposed to charge sales tax. Places licensed as sit down restaurants may have to charge tax on everything. Not sure how drinks work, it may differ between still in bottle or can vrs in a cup.

Also plants or seeds for normal food plants are not taxable.

 

[miss-a]

no...you are correct, the increase in minimum wage may cost people jobs to keep companies viable and may close down other businesses ... same as the mandatory insurance has forced companies that once supplied health insurance to stop offering that perk.... regardless of what you call it, it isn't usually going to be the bottom wage earners that benefit ...

I get what you're saying, but in reality the salary problem is rarely with the little guy making the minimum, but rather with the CEO and other managers who make 20 to 50 times what the little guy makes. Until our business world gets a touch more balance going in that direction no problems get solved.

 

[SnowyMacie]

I get what you're saying, but in reality the salary problem is rarely with the little guy making the minimum, but rather with the CEO and other managers who make 20 to 50 times what the little guy makes. Until our business world gets a touch more balance going in that direction no problems get solved.

Seriously, at my last job if I was promoted to the next level above me, my salary would almost double.

 

[redblue22]

I wonder what would happen economically if everyone started giving to the poor. Those who give would increase their prices in order to balance their giving. They would know that people had more money, so they would increase prices. Thus, the poor would be poor again. Think of how many people would be out of a job if the poor were no longer poor.

 

[SnowyMacie]

I wonder what would happen economically if everyone started giving to the poor. Those who give would increase their prices in order to balance their giving. They would know that people had more money, so they would increase prices. Thus, the poor would be poor again. Think of how many people would be out of a job if the poor were no longer poor.

Unless we want everyone to make the same, relative poverty will always exist. re, hypothetically the median income in the U.S. could be $100,000, but in order for that median to exist there has to be people at the bottom. Income is positively skewed in the U.S., which is why we say median income and not average, because the average income is skewed by multimillionaires. If you don't remember from high school, median is simply the number in the middle, so it's less effected by bigger or smaller numbers, whereas one ridiculously high number can throw off your average. You can increase the amount of money in an economy all you want, it would just raise the standard of living, but not get rid of a upper, middle, and lower classes.

 

[miss-a]

I wonder what would happen economically if everyone started giving to the poor. Those who give would increase their prices in order to balance their giving. They would know that people had more money, so they would increase prices. Thus, the poor would be poor again. Think of how many people would be out of a job if the poor were no longer poor.

I respectfully disagree. Some people might do it that way, but not all. I give from my business and I don't even make much money. I just like to give and it never occured to me to try to make someone pay on the other end. I think if everyone gave for the right reasons, or only those wanting to give for the right reasons gave, it could help. However, it's such a complicated issue, because not everyone would use the money given them well. Some would, however. I try to give to organizations that help the poor by teaching them how to live, use their money, etc.

 

[Ubuntu]

In the story of Lot And The Fires Of Hell..

Lot meets a rich man who claimed he was right with God.
He asked what did he do to suffer this torture? Then one of the demons whipping him said, "you lived like a pig while many went hungry". "You were in possession of things that could have saved people's lives". "Yet you did not, you are the same as a mass murderer."

That's not a Biblical story. Sounds as if someone decided to make their own version of Jesus parable about the rich man and Lazarus. Anyways, the original goes like this:

"There was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. And at his gate was laid a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man's table. Moreover, even the dogs came and licked his sores. The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried, and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. And he called out, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame. But Abraham said, Child, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and Lazarus in like manner bad things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us. And he said, Then I beg you, father, to send him to my father's house— for I have five brothers—so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment. But Abraham said, They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them. And he said, No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent. He said to him, If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead. "

- Luke 16:19-31, ESV

 

[MoreCoffee]

Don't forget in the US the bottom 50% pay no taxes. This means the biggest tax loophole is for the lower 50% of wage earners.

Keep in mind my statement was the bottom 50% pay no taxes on earned income not that the bottom 50% pay no taxes at all. We all pay taxes to some degree or another. We often pay too much in taxes. Like or not the biggest loop hole in earned income taxes benefits to bottom 50% of earners. This is a fact that can't be ignored. Then the upper 50% pays 100% of the taxes it's has a different name, wealth transfer.

The problem is the development of class warfare (strong word to use) in America. Class warfare also developed during the first depression. The populace thought people like George Westinghouse was a hero for electrifying cities, and was later seen as a nemesis because of the money he made from electrifying cities. It's history repeating itself.

Your statement was "Don't forget in the US the bottom 50% pay no taxes."

 

[SnowyMacie]

I saw two great quotes by Bernie Sanders about this yesterday....

"No single financial institution should have holdings so extensive that its failure would send the world economy into a crisis. If an institution is too big to fail, it is too big to exist."

and

"Greed is the religion of the billionaire class. The Walton family is the wealthiest family in America, and pay their employees starvation wages. The Koch brothers are the second wealthiest family, and make huge campaign contributions in order to cut Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. A nation based on greed will not survive morally, economically, or politically."

 

[blackribbon]

When my daughter was little, she thought stores ought to give things free to families that couldn't afford them...to her that was compassion. I tried to get her to understand that people didn't work in the store for free and the store had to spend their money to buy the items to sell...so they had to get money to pay for the items and pay the store workers. Her desires were for luxuries and not basics...and so are most of ours.

 

[fromtheAsh]

When my daughter was little, she thought stores ought to give things free to families that couldn't afford them...to her that was compassion. I tried to get her to understand that people didn't work in the store for free and the store had to spend their money to buy the items to sell...so they had to get money to pay for the items and pay the store workers. Her desires were for luxuries and not basics...and so are most of ours.

I can guarantee you that no one here is suggesting companies give away things like computers or cars, that's a poor understanding of welfare. Regardless, companies do it all the time. There's a company called Einstein's that gives away all products made that day but not sold, meanwhile McDonald's prosecutes homeless people for going through their trash. IMO, can't fathom how anyone can see that as stealing at that point. Anyway, what we're all saying is that multibillion dollar companies will not go bankrupt by increasing their employees pay by a couple dollars an hour. Anyone who has ever taken an economics class knows there's no such thing as a free lunch, and all we're saying is that the tab should be picked up somewhere else.