12 steps groups

[live2dt]

Hello everyone and God bless. I am believer in the Lord and someone who has gone to AA and Christian 12 steps groups. I wanted to ask if anyone knows about Overcomers Outreach? I do no longer attend non-Christian 12-step groups mainly because Christ is not allowed to be talked about. I wanted to know if anyone has chosen to now go to Christian 12 step groups instead of secular 12 step groups. I have attended Celebrate Recovery groups, but like Overcomer Outreach better.

 

[If Not For Grace]

I can not understand why chrisitans can not understand people seeking recovery in a spiritual program not understanding that people in AA are seeking...a "higher Power"..

AA is often a pre cursor for christianity while they do not allow proselytizing-when you get to 1on1 with people-there is no better chance than to be evangelical as you exchange ESH...IJS

Besides the one thing you can't argue with is Their rate of recovery..100% (works if you work it)...Bill W was a christian and founder of AA

 

[Nulletic]

Whoa! I am sorry, but, I feel compelled to chime in here.

Firstly let me make it clear that I am not dead set against AA/NA/12 Steps. I certainly do believe that it can be beneficial for the right person and those who it does benefit should probably continue to attend. However, to say that recovery rates for those who attend 12 Step programs are anywhere near 100% is utterly unfounded and inaccurate, no matter if you try to qualify it with "works if you work it".

Now, the main obstacle to obtaining sound success rates for AA\NA is that these meetings are, of course, anonymous; and the organization itself forbids researchers from conducting studies of its members. But even according to their own random surveys, 33% of those questioned claimed to have remained sober for 10+ years. Other research suggests that the majority of individuals who attend meetings don't do so for very long.

I've been addicted myself, and so have known many many addicts over the years. I have attended AA\NA more than a few times and have been to Step-centric treatment centers.

This is one of my primary criticisms of the 12 Step mentality. For anybody who lauds AA\NA, it is essentially a one-size-fits-all approach and "it works". When somebody who is attending meetings and working the steps is still struggling, they will merely be accused of not working the program. It is extremely common for 'old timers' and other AA\NA-glorifiers to denounce other treatment options, recovery methods, or -god forbid- individuals who claim to have achieved and maintained sobriety without the 12 steps.

I suppose to what extent you're 'allowed' to discuss your religion\savior depends on the locality (the home group or that particular meeting). Of course, having a "higher power" is a pillar of the steps and an absolute requirement if you ask those who attend the meetings. If you ask them, without a higher power you're doomed to the dance with your drug of choice. Make no mistake, for the great majority of attenders this "higher power" is indeed God and\or is indeed Jesus Christ. And for the majority of them when they are telling others they need to "find" their "higher power" they really do mean God and\or Jesus. While depending on the location they do try to make most meetings more or less secular, the 'Big Book' and the Steps themselves are undeniably rife with religious inferences.

They really go to great lengths to make it clear that (A.) you NEED a higher power, but also (B.) this higher power doesn't HAVE to be God or Jesus unless (C.) you really want to stay sober. In other words without a higher power (read: GOD) or the 12 Steps an addict is, again, doomed to failure.
This is the last thing an atheist or agnostic addict needs to hear and it even discourages people who may believe in God\Jesus, but don't accept the steps or ask why they can't quit of their own God-given free will.

Sometimes people need to get sober solely for themselves, and then they can strengthen their relationship with God.

 

[Chaplain David]

Hello everyone and God bless. I am believer in the Lord and someone who has gone to AA and Christian 12 steps groups. I wanted to ask if anyone knows about Overcomers Outreach? I do no longer attend non-Christian 12-step groups mainly because Christ is not allowed to be talked about. I wanted to know if anyone has chosen to now go to Christian 12 step groups instead of secular 12 step groups. I have attended Celebrate Recovery groups, but like Overcomer Outreach better.

Hi,

I've never heard of Christian 12 step groups but it sounds interesting. I got sober in AA so I have a great love for the program. I think a person aught to do whatever works for them. I fully agree that people can also stay sober outside of AA or in the Church so to speak. But I believe that in AA or Church, relying on and taking our direction from God and of course not drinking are the most important things.

God bless everyone.

Faithfully,
CH Sacerdote

 

[live2dt]

Thank you all for your comments and responding to my post. I believe that 12 step groups work, but not for everyone. I do not feel that AA is bad and that no one can benefit from this type of program. I have seen it help many. It help me before I came to accept Christ. It pointed me in the right direction. I just feel that if you were a believer you would want to be in more groups that acknowledge Christ. Some secular groups do not allow that. I understand that that is not the case with all secular groups. It was helpful for me to have a group of people to be accountable to and I needed people to understand me. It helped me overcome drinking and gave me good tools, but it was ultimately not the program, but the Christian principles behind the 12 steps and my faith in Christ that helped me stop drinking. I wanted to state that for those people who are not believers they need a place to go. I would always say to them go to a secular AA if they need help, even if they never acknowledge Christ. I still want them and would hope they seek help from the program. For me I just wanted to reach out to other people here on this forum that have gone to either Celebrate Recovery or another type of Christian 12 step program.

Peace and God bless.

 

[If Not For Grace]

I

just feel that if you were a believer you would want to be in more groups that acknowledge Christ.

"IF" I was a believer-I hate those type statments... Going to a spiritual program for help is like going to the dentist for a toothache. If it works ..it works God is in ALL things not just those huddlers like to label as "christian"..AA, NA, OA, all the a's are for all people of all faiths.



If you ever are in need of a hospital-I hope you have time to find one that is "chirstian".

 

[If Not For Grace]

There is also another view addressed in the literature:
"For those who come to Al-Anon with a belief in a God, Step Two may be a very welcome idea; the concept of turning to a familiar God for help with our problems will be reassuring and easy to grasp. Others of us may have developed a fear of our
God and have difficulty imagining asking such a punishing God for assistance.

Some of us reject religion of any kind and call ourselves either agnostics or atheists. It is important to hear that, whether we practice a particular religion or not, all of us are welcome in Al-Anon. Yet when we approach Step Two, we may suspect that a group ideology will be revealed, and we will be forced to conform or leave. Instead the group’s members turn us toward defining our own idea of a Higher Power, and we come to believe that such a Power could exist and might help us."

Paths to Recovery Chapter 2

 

[If Not For Grace]

 

[If Not For Grace]

The spiritual path and growth promised to us by the Twelve Steps does not depend on any religious belief. They are not contingent upon any denomination or sect. They are not, as the traditions of Twelve Step programs state, affiliated with any religious denomination or organization.

We do not have to allow anyone to badger us about religion in recovery. We do not have to allow people to make us feel ashamed, afraid, or less than because we do not subscribe to their beliefs about religion.

We do not have to let them do it to us in the name of God, love, or recovery.

The spiritual experience we will find as a result of recovery and the Twelve Steps will be our own spiritual experience. It will be a relationship with God, a Higher Power, as we understand God.

Each of us must find our own spiritual path. Each of us must build our own relationship with God, as we understand God. Each of us needs a Power greater than ourselves. These concepts are critical to recovery.

So is the freedom to choose how to do that.

It's not that there's no belief in God-members of 12 step programs, just dont promote their version. Promote is a keyword.

 

[madison1101]

I have never experienced the type of stuff described here. I've been in the AA rooms for 23 years. I've been to a 12-step inpatient rehab, as well as an outpatient rehab. I've been a born again Christian since long before AA. I've been to a variety of AA meetings in different parts of the country

I was always encouraged to share what it was like, what happened, and what it is like now. When I have attended meetings that discuss steps 2 or 3, I have shared that my God is Jesus of the Bible.

I know that God wants me in AA. I had the privilege to befriend a sick addict/alcoholic for over a year. During that year, I was able to teach her Scripture and show her how each Step of AA was rooted in God's Word and Will.

When I was in rehab, the chaplain gave me a Life Recovery Bible. Each morning, I met with several Christians, and we read devotions from that Bible and prayed for each other.

I know from personal experience that NOT working all 12 Steps with my AA sponsor is not good. I struggled with a bad relapse, and it was in rehab that I learned many things about myself. 1. I had to become teachable. In order to do that, I had to open my mind to whatever people were sharing with me. Even the unbelievers. 2. I had to work ALL of the 12 Steps, not just the easy ones. That includes Steps 8 and 9. 3. I learned that when old timers kept saying to work the program, they meant the 12 Steps. I used to believe they meant the meetings, phone calls, and reading the Big Book. 4. I learned that the people who were in AA who didn't know the Lord needed to know the source of MY strength.

After rehab, I returned to AA truly humbled. I now share how it took the Lord knocking me to my knees, putting me in rehab, and opening my eyes to how close minded I was ONLY after I totally surrendered to His will for my entire life, as I took Step 3 that one morning with my morning prayer group.

For a while after rehab, I attended a 12 Step Bible study at my church, IN ADDITION to attending my AA meetings. God doesn't want me in a Holy Huddle of believers in recovery. He wants me in the AA rooms, befriending other alcoholics, and one on one sharing my faith with them.

Trish

 

[If Not For Grace]

The 12th Step is about a Spiritual Awakening and it is ALL about God...

What is more Christian than this?

 

[MIKEYROBERT]

AA works for those who work it, i sobered in AA over 25 years ago, joined the Catholic church 4 years ago, still go to AA periodically to show others they can sober up, plus i go to Overeaters anonymous when i can. I don't believe i'm above others because i believe in Christ. Christ isn't allowed to be talked about openly at most of the meetings i've been too because to many alkies have anger at the church and it offends them. Many like me go back to church and do both. AA is spiritually based not secular. AA could have a 100% success rate IF everyone worked steps but i've been around to long to know that is not the case and never will be. I've seen AA get watered down over the years and as a result the recovery rate go down with it. God keeps me sober, AA showed me how to get back to God. I only go to meetings when i go to show how God works in life, not to take or get a spirituall buzz because i've seen too many alkies get addicted to meetings while they stay selfcentered at home or on their job. AA is so much more then just sobering up, for me it was about learning that other people existed not just me. If not talking about Christ at meetings offends you go find your type of people, me i belong in AA and church and OA, i'm just a common ordinary drunk/sinner so i try to help out others,like me, who need to be shown the path to God, it doesn't matter where i serve God just as long as it's somewhere, doesn't matter if it's church , AA, OA wherever as long as it's somewhere.

 

[madison1101]

AA works for those who work it, i sobered in AA over 25 years ago, joined the Catholic church 4 years ago, still go to AA periodically to show others they can sober up, plus i go to Overeaters anonymous when i can. I don't believe i'm above others because i believe in Christ. Christ isn't allowed to be talked about openly at most of the meetings i've been too because to many alkies have anger at the church and it offends them. Many like me go back to church and do both. AA is spiritually based not secular. AA could have a 100% success rate IF everyone worked steps but i've been around to long to know that is not the case and never will be. I've seen AA get watered down over the years and as a result the recovery rate go down with it. God keeps me sober, AA showed me how to get back to God. I only go to meetings when i go to show how God works in life, not to take or get a spirituall buzz because i've seen too many alkies get addicted to meetings while they stay selfcentered at home or on their job. AA is so much more then just sobering up, for me it was about learning that other people existed not just me. If not talking about Christ at meetings offends you go find your type of people, me i belong in AA and church and OA, i'm just a common ordinary drunk/sinner so i try to help out others,like me, who need to be shown the path to God, it doesn't matter where i serve God just as long as it's somewhere, doesn't matter if it's church , AA, OA wherever as long as it's somewhere.

I totally agree with you. I have been able to share about my Higher Power, Jesus, when the topic of the AA meeting was the "Came to Believe" book, or if we are talking about Step 2. I don't preach, I just share that Jesus is my Higher Power, and share how He helped me get sober, and stay that way.

 

[If Not For Grace]

Step 3 is another ..."Made a decision to turn our will & our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him"

That's not God of our understanding BTW but God..as we understood Him and it is capital G AND capital H in the steps and CAL. We just don't get into "religion' which is dogma and I like that part...

When the Serenity prayer is said in whole it even mentions Jesus by name. The Program is spiritual and so far remains based on chrisitan principles..

 

[If Not For Grace]