10 reasons why same sex marriage is harmful

Is same sex marriage right?

  • It should be legal due to constitutional right but I believe it's a sin still

    Votes: 10 34.5%
  • It's neither constitutional or biblical. Because it violates principles of religion it is not const

    Votes: 11 37.9%
  • It is not a sin, and it is fully consituational

    Votes: 8 27.6%

  • Total voters
    29
  • Poll closed .
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createdtoworship

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Trump believes same sex marriage is good. Trump is a christian. Many believe because same sex marriage is a constitutional right that it's therefore moral. It is not. Here is a link to start this conversation: 10 Reasons Why Homosexual “Marriage” is Harmful and Must be Opposed

Sorry OP should say "same sex marriage" sorry. Working on my phone with sausage fingers.


Sources: I was asked where I believe Trump was "pro homosexual marriage" and I believe originally he was not for homosexual marriage, but his daughter and son in law in their advisor role, easily convinced him to back out of rolling back obama era LGBT protections, getting criticism from both the far right and religious conservatives:
Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner Said to Have Helped Thwart L.G.B.T. Rights Rollback
 
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Sabertooth

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From a constitutional standpoint, there is no real way to impede sex between any two consenting adults, no matter what combination (including "open" hetero-marriages).

I believe that all sex outside of Edenic marriage is certainly sinful and soul-injuring. There is just no way to enforce such a standard in our current body of laws.
 
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createdtoworship

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From a constitutional standpoint, there is no real way to impede sex between any two consenting adults, no matter what combination (including "open" hetero-marriages). I believe that all sex outside of Edenic marriage is certainly sinful and soul-injuring. There is just no way to enforce such a standard in our body of laws.
Yes but the constitution is a mistake in my opinion. I believe in only a theocratic form of government, but most people don't agree. but that is simply because we have not had a theocracy for thousands of years. When Christ returns He will incorporate a theocracy. I believe the christian movement is called dominion theology. But anyway, yes I agree as the constitution is written, religion cannot be legislated as per the first ammendment. But if for example one were to remove the first ammendment, for example. We "could" legislate religion. But anyway that is for another topic. So why would I go to such an extreme? Why not just try to push for constitutional freedom? Well freedom is not all it's cut out to be. Libertarianism lets call it, is all about freedoms. But every freedom of one person costs the freedom of another person. So it's technically not free. Slaves got freedom at millions of dollars in lost revenue of plantation owners who had literally free labor. So that freedom did cost someone elses freedom to be lost. And such is the case with every freedom. For homosexuals to have the freedom to marry, this costs christian ministers the freedom to refrain from marrying such couples. So the pastors freedoms are lost. So again freedom should not be our goal. Freedom is relative to who it is given. But rather we should legislate something that is objective, such as the Bible or God's word, which is perfect.
 
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Albion

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Trump believes same sex marriage is good.
Before we go further...has he said that he "believes same sex marriage is good?"

Everything I can find, from news sources on both left and right, says the opposite.
 
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com7fy8

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You might look at Romans 1:18-32 and see what the real problem is, and notice how lusts are included in the built-in punishment of refusing God.

People have preference for pleasure, instead of preference for God. And so, they are weak in what is not God's soundness of love. And in their weakness they can give in to various lusts which are dominating and dictatorial for pleasure.

There are various gay and straight people with this problem.
 
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createdtoworship

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createdtoworship

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You might look at Romans 1:18-32 and see what the real problem is, and notice how lusts are included in the built-in punishment of refusing God.

People have preference for pleasure, instead of preference for God. And so, they are weak in what is not God's soundness of love. And in their weakness they can give in to various lusts which are dominating and dictatorial for pleasure.

There are various gay and straight people with this problem.
I am sorry i am confused did I mention something contrary to romans 1:18? If so please quote it so I can clarify.
 
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Paidiske

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I believe in only a theocratic form of government, but most people don't agree. but that is simply because we have not had a theocracy for thousands of years.

Well, there are many reasons why someone might be concerned about a potential theocracy. Most theocracies have not enabled the flourishing of all their subjects well. History is our friend in this regard.

Trying to legislate "the Bible" is not objective, as there is no consensus on how Scripture ought to be interpreted and applied to legislation.

For homosexuals to have the freedom to marry, this costs christian ministers the freedom to refrain from marrying such couples. So the pastors freedoms are lost.

This is simply not true. Same-sex marriage is now legal in Australia, and not only may ministers continue to refuse to marry such couples, it remains illegal for many of us to solemnise same-sex marriages. If there is any lack of freedom here, it is that some who wish to solemnise same-sex marriages are not free to do so.
 
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Sabertooth

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When Christ returns He will incorporate a theocracy.
No, He will establish The Thearchy. Big Difference.
  1. Theocracies are made up of fallible, human priests who "see in a glass darkly" (just like the rest of us), if they bother to look in it at all.
  2. It would require us to recognize a single denomination, regardless of our conscience. (That is why most of the colonists came to America in the first place.)
  3. Jesus' biggest opponents were what the Israeli theocracy --a valid entity when it was first established-- had become in His day.
 
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createdtoworship

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No, He will establish The Thearchy. Big Difference.
  1. Theocracies are made up of fallible, human priests who "see in a glass darkly" (just like the rest of us), if they bother to look in it at all.
  2. It would require us to recognize a single denomination, regardless of our conscience. (That is why most of the colonists came to America in the first place.)
  3. Jesus' biggest opponents were what the Israeli theocracy --a valid entity when it was first established-- had become in His day.
I feel they are the same thing. But I see what you mean, that israel's original kingship was related to God but decided to amass riches and wealth and horses as in solomons day. But a theocracy the way God intended would not be about aligning with the kings of the world, it's not about that. It's about God, and His will on earth. Jesus actually teaches us to pray every day the same prayer...."our father, thy kingdom come, thy will be done." That is a theocracy, Jesus asks us to pray every day for it to come. So yes, a theocracy at any point in history would be a good change, it's just that man is easily corrupted with power and wealth due to being flesh. But nevertheless a theocracy is what Jesus says to pray for every day.
 
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Sabertooth

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I feel they are the same thing.
But nevertheless a theocracy is what Jesus says to pray for every day.
The Thearchy is Jesus, Himself, on a physical Throne on Earth. Not fleshly priests guessing at His will. If His intentions are unclear (to us), we will be able to ask Him in Person; and everyone present will hear His answer, too.

Only His Kingship & High Priesthood is infallible. His Law & Judgment is flawless. His Church will be post-denominational; unified in love and true doctrine.

A theocracy, as we know them, cannot compare.
 
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SkyWriting

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From a constitutional standpoint, there is no real way to impede sex between any two consenting adults, no matter what combination (including "open" hetero-marriages). I believe that all sex outside of Edenic marriage is certainly sinful and soul-injuring. There is just no way to enforce such a standard in our current body of laws.
Such marriages only existed in Eden. And God choose the partners in that case and so they were perfectly suited.

Moses granted divorce papers, not because he was stupid, or fallen, but because he understood that Eden is not here.
 
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SkyWriting

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Trump believes same sex marriage is good. Trump us a christian. Many believe because same sex marriage is a constitutional right that it's therefore moral.

Local law is God's will on earth.
Without local rule, Jesus would have never died for our sins.
That would be a shame if Jesus objected to local law and
died of old age instead. Then Hell for everyone.

What Does the Bible Say About Authority?
 
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createdtoworship

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The Thearchy is Jesus, Himself, on a physical Throne on Earth.
Aren't we to be like Christ in all ways, or only some ways? I await your reply.


Not fleshly priests guessing at His will.
The scriptures are created so we don't have to guess.
If His intentions are unclear (to us), we will be able to ask Him in Person; and everyone present will hear His answer, too.
again there is nothing unclear about scripture. The Holy spirit himself makes sure we know how to interpret.

Only His Kingship & High Priesthood is infallible. His Law & Judgment is flawless.
He honors his words above himself.

"For You have magnified Your word above all Your name." Psalm 138:2 b
His Church will be post-denominational; unified in love and true doctrine.
This I agree

A theocracy, as we know them, cannot compare.
That does NOT mean we give up, forfei the battle entirely. We don't just "wait" for Him. He command so "wait and "do", Not just wait. The Bible says that

“Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.” Luke 12:40

"Let your waist be girded and your lamps burning;and you yourselves be like men who wait for their master, when he will return from the wedding, that when he comes and knocks they may open to him immediately. Blessed are those servants whom the master, when he comes, will find watching. Assuredly, I say to you that he will gird himself and have them sit down to eat, and will come and serve them." Luke 12:35-37
 
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Yekcidmij

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Yes but the constitution is a mistake in my opinion. I believe in only a theocratic form of government, but most people don't agree.

People probably don't agree with you because theocratic monarchies breed things like corruption, tyranny, oppression, inefficiency, and immorality.

but that is simply because we have not had a theocracy for thousands of years.

No, it's because they don't work. They lead to violence, injustice, and tyranny.

When Christ returns He will incorporate a theocracy.

Well when Jesus himself steps out of heaven with perfect knowledge, perfect benevolence, and perfect power we can have one. Until then, no; nobody else on the planet is suited to hold the office.

But every freedom of one person costs the freedom of another person.

How you you justify this premise? It's hard to see how freedom necessarily costs someone else or how it would cost more than bondage. And this doesn't even try to touch the moral question of freedom vs bondage. If my being free comes at a cost to you, who cares? Tough. Your enslaving me comes at a cost to me - so bug off. You don't have a valid moral claim to enslave someone because it comes at an arbitrary, and undefined, "cost" to someone else.

I can't go and take your car from you just because refraining from doing so would "cost" me in terms of a great opportunity to turn a buck on your car. You can't hold another person in bondage just because their freedom entails a cost to you.

Slaves got freedom at millions of dollars in lost revenue of plantation owners who had literally free labor. So that freedom did cost someone elses freedom to be lost.

I note that you're not counting all the costs associated with both freedom and slavery and then making a valid comparison. You have not counted the cost of slavery to the slaves themselves and are only counting monetary costs to the slave owner. You have not counted the costs of the act of enslaving and remaining enslaved. Why are you not treating their lives with equal value as the slave owner? Nor have you counted economic costs of systemic slavery in drags on economic output and loss of efficiency. Nor have you tallied up the benefits of freedom and weighed them against the costs of slavery.

More importantly, nor have you justified slavery in any moral way. You have not established that the slave owner had a legitimate moral claim on another person as property in the first place.

And such is the case with every freedom. For homosexuals to have the freedom to marry, this costs christian ministers the freedom to refrain from marrying such couples.

If things were free and just, then those ministers who didn't want to officiate a same sex wedding wouldn't. And those ministers who wanted to would. If we apply a simple no-harm principle, then as long as nobody is coercing anyone else into action, we should all be fine.

The mistake is having a centralized government legislating marriage ceremonies (in either direction). Legislation will not change people's conscience, and probably won't change their behavior. Legislation will not prevent people from finding a "minister" to "marry" them and then go around telling everyone they're "married." Nor will legislation prevent ministers from refraining to officiate ceremonies against their conscience.

The easiest idea is to apply actual principles of freedom and justice through a no-harm principle. As long as you don't coerce me, I won't coerce you and vice-versa. Let people make their own decisions so long as they don't coerce other people. We could call this an application of the Golden Rule.

But rather we should legislate something that is objective, such as the Bible or God's word, which is perfect.

The problem with this is that the interpretation of the bible is not perfect and the application by real people is also imperfect because people are not perfect. Your standard of law is perfection, but your legislative and enforcement mechanisms are not perfect. So who do you propose to hold the Office of Chief Interpreter? And what constraints and checks are placed on this office?
 
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createdtoworship

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People probably don't agree with you because theocratic monarchies breed things like corruption, tyranny, oppression, inefficiency, and immorality.
your thinking of kingships. There has been no official theocracy ever.

No, it's because they don't work. They lead to violence, injustice, and tyranny.
never had one.

Well when Jesus himself steps out of heaven with perfect knowledge, perfect benevolence, and perfect power we can have one. Until then, no; nobody else on the planet is suited to hold the office.
doesn't mean we don't try


How you you justify this premise? It's hard to see how freedom necessarily costs someone else or how it would cost more than bondage. And this doesn't even try to touch the moral question of freedom vs bondage. If my being free comes at a cost to you, who cares? Tough. Your enslaving me comes at a cost to me - so bug off. You don't have a valid moral claim to enslave someone because it comes at an arbitrary, and undefined, "cost" to someone else.
every freedom is at a sacrifice of someone elses freedom. Take slavery. People lost the freedom to have free labor. It was literally a freedom they had before the one day they no longer had it.
I can't go and take your car from you just because refraining from doing so would "cost" me in terms of a great opportunity to turn a buck on your car. You can't hold another person in bondage just because their freedom entails a cost to you.
I think I explained this, but I am leaving my computer for a few hours.
 
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Sabertooth

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Aren't we to be like Christ in all ways, or only some ways? I await your reply.
The scriptures are created so we don't have to guess.
  1. "For now we [Christians] see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face.
    Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known."
    1 Corinthians 13:12 NKJV
  2. "Beloved, now we are children of God; and
    it has not yet been revealed what we shall be,
    but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him,
    for we shall see Him as He is."
    1 John 3:2 NKJV
  3. Our current mission is one of reconciliation.
    "Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ,
    as though God were pleading through us:
    we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God.
    For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us,
    that we might become the righteousness of God in Him."
    2 Corinthians 5:20-21 NKJV
  4. We have very limited roles in God's executive/judicial functions.
    "Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight of all men.
    If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men.
    Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, 'Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,' says the Lord."
    Romans 12:17-19 NKJV
 
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Sabertooth

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your thinking of kingships. There has been no official theocracy ever.
Even having a king, the Old Testament government of Israel was a theocracy. And it was based on the real God. Its legal underpinnings was the Pentateuch. (It still did not recognize the Messiah when He arrived.)

All of the kingdoms of the "Holy" Roman Empire had theocratic features, as did Henry VIII's opposing Church of England.

The Puritans and other American colonies were very theocratic in their structure. (Did you know that the Puritans even persecuted the Anabaptists for their "Believer's" Baptism? :doh:So did Luther, the Father of the Reformation.)

Theocracies are a mainstay of Arab/Muslim countries even to this day.

The USA and France were two of the first countries to remove direct sectarian influence in their governing affairs. (There is still indirect influence in the leanings of their voters, but that is okay.)
 
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createdtoworship

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Even having a king, the Old Testament government of Israel was a theocracy. And it was based on the real God. Its legal underpinnings was the Pentateuch. (It still did not recognize the Messiah when He arrived.)

All of the kingdoms of the "Holy" Roman Empire had theocratic features, as did Henry VIII's opposing Church of England.

The Puritans and other American colonies were very theocratic in their structure. (Did you know that the Puritans even persecuted the Anabaptists for their "Believer's" Baptism? :doh:So did Luther, the Father of the Reformation.)

Theocracies are a mainstay of Arab/Muslim countries even to this day.

The USA and France were two of the first countries to remove direct sectarian influence in their governing affairs. (There is still indirect influence in the leanings of their voters, but that is okay.)
No sir they specifically asked to have a human ruler rather than have God rule them. They denied theocracy not established it.
 
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