10 Commandments

Dedication · Aug 10, 2007

icedragon101 said:
see above

Please tell me from scripture WHERE an apostle says: Now the First day of the week is Blessed and Sanctified by the Lord our God.

Without such a blessing and sanctification even an apostle has no right to change the day which God blessed and sanctified.

I cannot believe the apostles changed the day -- there would have been such an uproar it would have been plainly spelled out in scripture ... but it is not.

Also I have plenty of documentation that it was not that early and yes, it took centuries.

For me only a command from God in scripture will suffice.

Adventist Dissident · Aug 10, 2007

No one ever said it was a holy day. just that it was a public day of worship.

Paul say "let no one judge you concerning festivals(yearly), new moons(monthly) and Sabbath(weekly)" Colossians.

Acts says "that they assembled on the first day for the breaking of bread(communion) and to give themselves to the Apostles teaching(sermon)"

The basis for the sunday is the
Ressurection - victory over sin and death (on sunday)
Pentecost - the beginning of the Regin of Christ and the foundation of the chruch. (sunday)

Holy days commerated events.
1. Sabbath -creation
2. Day of Atonement - forgiveness and end of sin
3. Passover- Exodus
4. festival of lights - rededication of temple

There is a history of commeration of events as holy days or days. it is reasonable to conclude that they would have marked the ressurection of Christ and the out pouring of Holy Spirit at founding of the Chruch with some kind of memorial.

There is the text in Rev. "I was in the Spirit on the Lords day"

the SDA chruch says that this is the Sabbath, but only a few years after this term was written it is being applied to Sunday.

Where is the documentation that shows that the term "The Lords Day should be applied to any other day then Sunday.

where did the change of terms take place. it would have been with in 15 years of Revelation being written. no later.

the earlist was 107 AD by Philiy. that is not long after John died, Philiy was alive during the live of the Apostles and would have had direct contact with them.

As Far as the Up roar. Once the Church moved to Antioich, Which was a Greek and Roman town the change would not have been that much of a problem, becaue the jews were not the dominate force, the romans and the Greeks would not care. No longer was it which DAY, but which LORD. that is not to say Sabbath is not valid, just Not the issue the SDA make out to be.

The Linch pin of the SDA postion is that Sunday came from PAGANS, if this can be proven false then the SDA theory is no long valid and sunday is not the Mark of the beast. .

Adventist Dissident · Aug 10, 2007

Could you please tell me which Pagan god was worshiped on Sunday?

Could you tell me where did you get you information as to the rituals of the pagan god, that say they had a weekly cycle?

Could you tell me, If Rome had an 8 day weekly cycle how could the day of worship have been on the same day as sunday in the the 7 day weekly cycle?

jewish calander compred to the Roman calander

week 1: you get 2 sundays day 1 and day 8
jewish: day 1-7
roman day1-8

Week 2: you get 1 sunday day 14 which is 2 day before the end of the week
jewish day: 8-14
roman day:9-16

Week 3 - you get 1sunday which is 3 days before the week end.
jewish day: 15-21
roman day: 17-24

do you see the problem. the day of worship always changes when you compare it to the jewish calander. Which make no sense what so ever.

Dedication · Aug 12, 2007

But you have given me no Biblical reason to reject the 4th commandment.

God BLESSED and SANCTIFIED the seventh DAY. To sanctify something means to make it holy and set it apart for a holy purpose.

Gen 2:2 And on the seventh dayGod ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Ex, 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: ...
20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. (made it holy)

God sanctified that day setting it apart for holy purpose and hallowed it (made it holy) from creation.

You wrote --
Acts says "that they assembled on the first day for the breaking of bread(communion) and to give themselves to the Apostles teaching(sermon)"

Where does it say that?
No, it doesn't say that at all -- there is a passage in Acts 20 where they met together on what we call "Saturday evening" after dark, "there were many lights in the room" the Jews reckoning time from evening to evening would call an all night meeting by the day following the night. It was a farewell supper for Paul, and He preached ALL NIGHT till day break Sunday morning. It was hardly a regular type of worship service.

"Breaking bread" was a common Biblical term for sharing a meal, or eating together, and not necessarily refering to "communion". They went from house to house EVERY DAY "breaking bread". (See Acts 2:46)

We have far more evidence from scripture that the apostles worshipped upon the Sabbath 7th day day.

Acts 13:14 Acts 17:2 and 18:4

Then there's Acts 13:42 "And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
13:43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

Interesting -- the Gentiles wanted Paul to preach to them the NEXT SABBATH. These were Gentiles, but Paul did not say -- "I'll preach to you tomorrow for it's the new worship day" no -- he had them wait a whole week and then preached (not in the synagogue) the next Sabbath (the whole city would not fit into a synagogue) He preached to them in the city square on the NEXT SABBATH.

Acts 16:13
Paul is in a city where there is NO synagogue. So he asks around and finds out some people worship by the river every Sabbath.
"16:13 And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted

Dedication · Aug 12, 2007

ID101 wrote: The Linch pin of the SDA postion is that Sunday came from PAGANS, if this can be proven false then the SDA theory is no long valid and sunday is not the Mark of the beast.

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I really don't understand your reasoning here.
As far as I understand this "mark of the beast" --
This mark -- is the mark or sign of authority to command worship.

God asks for worship because He IS our Creator, He is the One Who made us.
We are to come to Him in worship upon the day He sanctified (set apart for Holy purposes) and hallowed, (made holy).
Rev. 14 -- "Worship Him Who made heaven and earth and the sea...."

In this way we acknowledge ourselves to be His creatures, under His authority, as well as acknowledging that He is the One Who "sanctifies" us (sets us apart for holy purposes) and delivers us.

Any other day is merely a man made day.
If I were to start disregarding the Sabbath and replace it by worshipping on Friday I'd be accepting the authority of Mohammed over the authority of God.

If I disregard the 7th day Sabbath and replace it with Sunday, I'm accepting the authority of Catholic Church over the authority of God.

"BEAST" is church using polictical power to enforce worship.
.

Dedication · Aug 12, 2007

Actually this thread is called
"Ten commandments"

It is not called "historical change of the Sabbath"
So most of the question would be "off topic" for this thread.

According to the ten commandments
the Sabbath of the Lord our God is the Seventh Day which He blessed and sanctified at creation.

Adventist Dissident · Aug 12, 2007

Dedication said:
But you have given me no Biblical reason to reject the 4th commandment.

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i did not say reject the Sabbath. I said that the claim that the SDA church that Sunday is the "Mark of the Beast" is not valid. YOu are laboring under the false assumption that I think Sabbath keeping is Wrong. I do not. i just don't think that the "Lord"s Day" is wrong like the SDA church says it is.

Paul state clearly in colossians that you are not to judge another person concerning these things

"festivals, new moons and sabbaths"
There you have it biblical evidence that sabbath is not the important issue you make it out to be.

clear
what more do you need.

Adventist Dissident · Aug 12, 2007

Dedication said:
Actually this thread is called
"Ten commandments"

It is not called "historical change of the Sabbath"
So most of the question would be "off topic" for this thread.

Click to expand...

dont talk to me about the topic I started this thread I will talk about what I want. I started it with the intention of talking about this subject.

According to the ten commandments
the Sabbath of the Lord our God is the Seventh Day which He blessed and sanctified at creation.

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Nice way to avoid the argument. You have yet to answer my question.

Adventist Dissident · Aug 12, 2007

Dedication said:
-----------

I

really don't understand your reasoning here.

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you really then don't understand SDA theology and should stop trying to defend it until you do

As far as I understand this "mark of the beast" --
This mark -- is the mark or sign of authority to command worship.

Click to expand...

yes, and that sign is Sunday worhsip according to SDA's, because it came from pagans and the Roman Catholics and that the Catholic chruch will one day enforce a "false pagan" day of whoship sunday on people. But this is just not true. Since there was no weekly pagan day of worship the enforcement of sunday cannot be the mark of the beast

God asks for worship because He IS our Creator, He is the One Who made us.
We are to come to Him in worship upon the day He sanctified (set apart for Holy purposes) and hallowed, (made holy).
Rev. 14 -- "Worship Him Who made heaven and earth and the sea...."

I don't need a lecture as why we should worship
In

this way we acknowledge ourselves to be His creatures, under His authority, as well as acknowledging that He is the One Who "sanctifies" us (sets us apart for holy purposes) and delivers us.

mumbo jumbo

Any other day is merely a man made day.
If I were to start disregarding the Sabbath and replace it by worshipping on Friday I'd be accepting the authority of Mohammed over the authority of God.

I

I I disregard the 7th day Sabbath and replace it with Sunday, I'm accepting the authority of Catholic Church over the authority of God.

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no this is not true, since the catholic did not change the day. that is what i have been trying to get at. SDA claim that the Roman Catholics have changed the day and they did not. it was changed long before the Roman Catholic church existed.

"BEAST" is church using polictical power to enforce worship.

traditional SDA rethoric. you ar avoiding the question. Please don't babble

Adventist Dissident · Aug 12, 2007

The Sabbath and Sunday

Common Misunderstandings:

1. "We have been told that the Sabbath is the Seal of God."
The Seal of God is NOT the Sabbath! The Bible tells us clearly that the Seal of God is the Holy Spirit indwelling believers the moment they are saved.

Ephesians 1:13 (NIV) says,
And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in Him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession-to the praise of His glory.

See Also:
Ephesians 4:30
2 Corinthians 1:21-22
This establishes that sabbath is not the SEAL of GOD

2. "We have been told that the true church in the last days, the Remnant church will be a commandment keeping church. Isn't that what Revelation 12:17 says?"

Revelation 12:17 says:
And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

In the new Covenant, what are the "commandments" of God? Does this mean the Ten Commandments? NO! The Greek word used for the Ten Commandments is "NOMOS". That word is not used here. The word used here is "ENTELE" and means " teaching"
The Apostle John clarifies this and actually tells us what the "Commandments" are that we are to keep:
See I John 5:1-3

I used to use these verses to teach people that they must keep the Ten Commandments, especially the Sabbath. But look at what I John 3:21-24 has to say! 3. "The Roman Catholic Church changed the day of worship from Sabbath (Saturday) to Sunday." "Isn't it paying homage to the Roman church to worship on Sunday, because didn't the Roman Emperor Constantine change the day of worship?"
Costantine's Edict , AD 321

It is claimed that Constantine's edict of March 7, 321 changed the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday. Consantine's edict reads:

On the venerable Day of the Sun [venerablili dei Solis] let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country, however, persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits.Codex Justinaianus, book 3 title 12,3 trans. In Schaff, History of the Christian Church 5th ed. (New York: Charles Scribner, 1902), vol. 3, P. 380, note1.

Pliny's Letter , AD 107 worhsip and bread were together

Pliny was governor of Bithynia, in Asia Minor, from AD 106-108. He wrote in AD 107 to Trajan, the emperor, concerning the Christians. This is what he said:

They were want to meet together on a stated day before it was light, and sign among themselves alternately a hymn to Christ as God....When these things were performed, it was their custom to separate and then to come together again to a meal which they ate in common without any disorder.

We know the day the early church broke bread was on a Sunday.

Upon the first day of the week when the disciple came together to break bread. Acts 20:7 this establishes that they were meeting on the first day for communion and a sermon

The Epistle of Barnabas, AD 120 establishes an early record of the 8th day as a joyful day

In chapter 2 the Epistle of Barnabas says:
"Incense is a vain abomination unto me, and your new moons and Sabbaths I cannot endure. He has, therefore, abolished these things."

When he speaks of the first day of the week, Barnabas says:
"Wherefore, also, we keep the eighth day with joyfulness, the day, also, on which Jesus rose again from the dead." Chapter 25

Statements By the Church Fathers:

Justin Martyr, AD 140 - establishes change short time after

Note: Justin's "Apology" was written at Rome about the year AD 140, only 44 years after the Apostle John recieved the vision of the Revelation at Patmos.
The Schalff-herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge states this about Justin's works: "In these works Justin professes to present the system of doctrine held by all Christians and seeks to be orthodox on all points. The only difference he knows of as existing between Christians concerned the millennium. Thus Justin is an incontrovertible witness for the unity of faith in the Church of his day and that fact that the Gentile type of Christianity prevailed." Quoted by Canright in the Complete Testimony of the Early Fathers, Fleming H. Revell, 1916, pp. 24-25.
Note: At this early date , AD 140, the only difference among Christians was about the millennium. At that time , they had no disagreement in keeping Sunday, and as you will see, Justin says that was the day on which all Christians worshiped.
In chapter 67 of his first Apology, entitled, "Weekly Worship of the Christian" writing to the pagan emperor, Justin states:

"...we bless the Maker of all through His Son, Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost. And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the Apostles or writings of the prophets are read as long as time permits;then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructed, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and , as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought...But Sunday is the day on which God, having wrought the change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Savior on the same day rose from the dead."The Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol 1, pp. 185-186 (Emphasis Added)

Clement of Alexandria, in Egypt, AD 194

Clement, writing around AD 194 says:
"He, in fulfillment of the precept, keeps the Lord's Day when he abandons an evil disposition, and assumes that the Gnostic, glorifying the Lord's resurrection in himself." Book 7, Chapter 12 (emphasis added)

Ignatius of Antioch, the third bishop of Antioch, who died in AD 108, wrote: the Lord's day reference Same as Revelation:a mere 12 years after John recieved Revelation. Sda's say that the Lord's day in Revelation is a reference to Sabbath, fine, but how and when did the change of the term become associated with the Ressurection a Mere 12 years after John wrote the Revelation? Where is the documentation that proves the Change? if you cannot prove the change then we must conclude that the "Lords day" in Revelation was Sunday for they would be refering to same thing.

"If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's Day, on which also our life has sprung up again in Him....Let us therefore no longer keep the Sabbath after the Jewish manner, and rejoice in days of idleness; for "he that does not work, let him not eat"....let every friend of Christ keep the Lord's day as a festival, the resurrection day, the queen and chief of all days [of the week]" Epistle of Ignatius to Magnesians, "The Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol, 1, pp. 62-63 (emphasis added).

Tertullian of Africa, wrote around AD 200:

In his Apology, Chapter 16 Tertullian says:
"We solemnize the day after Saturday in contradistinction to those who call this day their Sabbath, and devote it to ease and eating, deviating from the old Jewish customs, which they are not very ignorant of."
"Others, with greater regard to good manners, it must be confessed , suppose that the sun is the god of the Christians, because it is a well-known fact that we pray towards the east, or because we make Sunday a day of festivity " Ancient Syriac Documents, The Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. 3, P. 123

Note: The early church explained why they prayed toward the east. It was because, "...as the lightning which lighteneth from the east and is seen even to the west, so shall the coming of the Son of Man be; that by this we might know and understand that He will appear from the East suddenly" Ancient Syriac Documents, The Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. 8, P 668
Dionysius, Bishop of Corinth in Greece, AD 170

Dionysius was Bishop of Corinth, the Church which Paul raised up and to which he gave the command about Sunday collections, in I Cor. 16:1-2. He says:

"We passed this holy Lord's Day, in which we read your letter, from the constant reading of which we shall be able to draw admonition" Eusebius, Ecclesiastical History, BK. 3, Chapter 23 (Emphasis Added)

Dedication · Aug 12, 2007

I wasn't giving you "a lecture".

Nor was I "telling you what you should write".

Nor do I claim to be speaking for the church as a whole, I'm just giving my understanding as member of the church.

Why are you so defensive? So demanding? So harsh?

I've only been a member here for about three days, I read the rules and wanted to abide by them.

I didn't join to get into a bitter fight.
I have a feeling even if I spent hours digging up all the information to show it, it would still just be a "fight".

The only reason I even came to this thread was because you offered me an invitation for friendship, but I don't see much friendship here, so I may just move on.

Thank-you.

Adventist Dissident · Aug 12, 2007

Dedication said:
Dedication said:

I

Click to expand...

wasn't giving you "a lecture".

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yes you were, it is a sub concious thing SDA's Do. I don't think you did it on purpose but you were scolding.

Nor was I "telling you what you should write".

Nor do I claim to be speaking for the church as a whole, I'm just giving my understanding as member of the church.

Click to expand...

Why are you so defensive? So demanding? So harsh?

Click to expand...

I don't think i am being defensive, In fact that is what I think you are being.

I've only been a member here for about three days, I read the rules and wanted to abide by them.

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Welcome to CF

I didn't join to get into a bitter fight.
I have a feeling even if I spent hours digging up all the information to show it, it would still just be a "fight".

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I don't want a bitter fight either, so it will end here.

The only reason I even came to this thread was because you offered me an invitation for friendship, but I don't see much friendship here, so I may just move on.

Click to expand...

I am sorry you think so. I feel like you are playing with me an I don't like it.

this is a serious discussion for me, because I may be leaving the SDA church and I would like some real answers before I leave. If I come across a bit serious I am sorry, but this is really important.

Adventist Dissident · Aug 12, 2007

I posted some questioned and you side stepped, that is very frustrating.

Adventist Dissident · Aug 12, 2007

what you sensed was not me being defensive but frustration

Dedication · Aug 13, 2007

icedragon101 said:
The Sabbath and Sunday

icedragon101 said:
Common Misunderstandings:

1. "We have been told that the Sabbath is the Seal of God."
The Seal of God is NOT the Sabbath! The Bible tells us clearly that the Seal of God is the Holy Spirit indwelling believers the moment they are saved.
Ephesians 1:13 (NIV) says,
And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in Him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession-to the praise of His glory.

The KJV simply says
"ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise".
The tense or concept of the verb is considered without
regard for past, present, or future time.

In other words THE HOLY SPIRIT is the agency by which a person is sealed. He is the ONE doing the sealing.

See Also:
Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Again we see that it is the Holy Spirit by which we are sealed. He is doing the sealing, and if we grieve Him away, we do this by refusing to follow His leading in our lives.
The Holy Spirit's work according to John 16:13, is to guide us into all truth, He also reproves of sin, and for righteousness and judgment (John 16:8) It is by the Holy Spirit that we "put to death the deeds of the carnal flesh" (Romans 8:13)

icedragon101 said:
This establishes that sabbath is not the SEAL of GOD

No, it only established HOW we are sealed. It is the work of the Holy Spirit to do the sealing work in us, but it does not say what the seal itself is.

Rev. 7:2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God:.... Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

So here in Rev. 7 an angel has the seal of God .... he's not doing the sealing, but is apparently marking those who have been sealed... 144,000. And notice it is the servants (those who serve God) that receive the seal.

Let's follow this idea further.

Rev. 14:1,4 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads......These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth.

Now we realize it's having God's name written upon the forehead. It includes following the Lamb everywhere.
But what does that mean?

This sealing of people in the New Testament denotes identification of those who are Gods faithful peopleHis servants.

At the end of time Revelation makes it clear that this sealing takes on more significance. Ezekiel 9 will again be repeated, for only those who have a special seal prior to destruction will escape that destruction. In Revelation Gods faithful people are sealed (14:1; 22:4) and those who are opposed to God and the gospel are described as being marked with the name of the beast his servants. (13:16-17, 14:9; 16:2 19:20.

The mind signifies the thinking processes of a person. The forehead is where choices of right and wrong and the capacity for worship is located. The sealing thus signifies the choice of each person. Whether they have chosen to be servants of God and belong to Him, or whether they have chosen to be the servants of sin, and belong to the man of sin in 2 Thess. 2.

Thus the MARK or identifying outward sign that sealing has taken place, is revealed in ---

Well, let the Bible explain it for right in the midst of the discussion of the mark and seal we find:

Here is the patience of the saints, here are they that keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus. Rev. 14:12.

Earlier the call went forth:
Worship Him Who made heaven and earth, the sea
Rev. 14:7

Which commandment deals with acknowledging God as the one who made heaven and earth and the sea?

True we are to follow by faith Christ in EVERY command, a mere outward compliance to any one aspect is not enough, the whole heart and life must be yielded to Christ, but there is only ONE commandment that is the point of truth especially controverted, and if and when that point becomes a matter of legislation the testing time will be here.

Dedication · Aug 13, 2007

icedragon101 said:
2. "We have been told that the true church in the last days, the Remnant church will be a commandment keeping church. Isn't that what Revelation 12:17 says?"
Revelation 12:17 says:
And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.
In the new Covenant, what are the "commandments" of God? Does this mean the Ten Commandments? NO! The Greek word used for the Ten Commandments is "NOMOS". That word is not used here. The word used here is "ENTELE" and means " teaching"
The Apostle John clarifies this and actually tells us what the "Commandments" are that we are to keep:
See I John 5:1-3

I used to use these verses to teach people that they must keep the Ten Commandments, especially the Sabbath. But look at what I John 3:21-24 has to say!

The idea here is that LOVE abolishes the definitions of love, which is very false deductive reasoning.

It is very true that an obedience without love for God or man is a useless and senseless thing, Paul makes that perfectly clear in 1 Cor. 13. Without love everything else falls far short, and is nothing more then tinkling brass.

LOVE is the very attribute underlying all goodness, righteousness and holiness. God is LOVE.

Yet, the supposition that LOVE somehow exists outside of Gods law and operates in disregard to that law is a totally wrong concept.

All through John's writings you will see a tension between the way the Jews interpreted Gods laws and the foundation upon which Gods laws are based which is love. So John says in 1 John 2:7 a new command commandment I give you, but its not a new commandment, its an old commandment..
That commandment was already in effect in Deut. (see Duet. 6:5, 10:12; 10:19; Lev. 19:18)

Deut. 11:22 For if ye shall diligently keep all these commandments which I command you, to do them, to love the LORD your God, to walk in all his ways, and to cleave unto him; Lev. 19:18 thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I [am] the LORD.

It's been said that the Greek word "nomos" refers to the Ten Commandments, while "entole" refers to Christ's new law of love.
Now to be fair I think we should look to see how the word "entole" is used in the entire New Testament before we make any conclusions. As we do, we come up with some interesting insights.

Jesus uses the word entole to refer to the 10 commandments
(See Matt. 15:3-6; 19:17-19, Mark 7:9-10, 12:29-30 and Luke refers to the Sabbath commandment as entole in Luke 23:56)

Paul uses the word entole
Romans 7:8-13 he uses both "nomos"(law) and "entole" (commandment) as if they were synonyms, in his definition of sin as being the breaking of the law and commandments. The tenth commandment, "you shall not covet" is used as an example, clearly demonstrating that sin is the breaking of the ten commandments.
In this next verse Paul not only links the word "entole" with the ten commandments, he also links the ten commandments with the so called new commandment to love ones neighbour.

Romans 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, (entole) it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Ephesians 6.2 Honour thy father and mother; which is the first commandment (entole) with promise;

Dedication · Aug 13, 2007

icedragon101 said:
3. "The Roman Catholic Church changed the day of worship from Sabbath (Saturday) to Sunday." "Isn't it paying homage to the Roman church to worship on Sunday, because didn't the Roman Emperor Constantine change the day of worship?"
Costantine's Edict , AD 321

It is claimed that Constantine's edict of March 7, 321 changed the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday. Consantine's edict reads:
On the venerable Day of the Sun [venerablili dei Solis] let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country, however, persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits.Codex Justinaianus, book 3 title 12,3 trans. In Schaff, History of the Christian Church 5th ed. (New York: Charles Scribner, 1902), vol. 3, P. 380, note1.

Yes, we know the edit, and its very revealing what Constantine called the 1st day of the week.
The venerable Day of the Sun.
His edict marks the first step taken to legislate rest on the venerable day of the sun.

Pope Sylvester I was contemporary with Constantine.

Quoting:

Pope Sylvester first among the Romans ordered that the names of the days [of the week], which they previously called after the name of their gods, that is, [the day] of the Sun, [the day] of the Moon, [the day] of Mars, [the day] of Mercury, [the day] of Jupiter, [the day] of Venus, [the day] of Saturn, they should call feriae thereafter, that is the first feria, the second feria, the third feria, the fourth feria, the fifth feria, the sixth feria, because that in the beginning of Genesis it is written that God said concerning each day: on the first, "Let there be light:; on the second, "Let there be a firmament"; on the third, "Let the earth bring forth verdure"; etc. But he [Sylvester] ordered [them] to call the Sabbath by the ancient term of the law, [to call] the first feria the "Lord's day," because on it the Lord rose [from the dead], Moreover, the same pope decreed that the rest of the Sabbath should be transferred rather to the Lord's day [Sunday], in order that on that day we should rest from worldly works for the praise of God.7 (De Clericorum Institutione (Concerning the Instruction of the Clergymen), Book II, Chap. XLVI, as translated by the writer from the Latin text in Migne's Patrologia Latina, Vol. CVII, col. 361)

Note particularly, he says that "the same pope [Sylvester I] decreed that the rest of the Sabbath should be transferred rather to the Lord's day [Sunday]."8 According to this statement, he was the first bishop to introduce the idea that the divinely appointed rest of the Sabbath day should be transferred to the first day of the week. This is significant, especially in view of the fact that it was during Sylvester's pontificate that the emperor of Rome [Constantine] issued the first civil laws compelling men to rest from secular labor on Sunday, and that Eusebius, bishop of Caesarea, was the first theologian on record to present arguments, allegedly from the Scriptures, that Christ did transfer the rest of the Sabbath day to Sunday.
(Sabbath and Sunday in Early Christianity, by Robert L. Odom, © 1977 by the Review and Herald Publishing Association (An Adventist publishing house), pages 248.

Dedication · Aug 13, 2007

icedragon101 said:
Pliny's Letter , AD 107 worship and bread were together

Pliny was governor of Bithynia, in Asia Minor, from AD 106-108. He wrote in AD 107 to Trajan, the emperor, concerning the Christians. This is what he said:
They were want to meet together on a stated day before it was light, and sign among themselves alternately a hymn to Christ as God....When these things were performed, it was their custom to separate and then to come together again to a meal which they ate in common without any disorder.

Taking for granted the very point that should be proved, is no new feature for Sunday vindication in this digging for truth in history, the fact is there is NOTHING in Plinys letter to prove these Christians were meeting on Sunday. To say there is, is pure supposition with no support what-so-ever from the letter itself.

icedragon101 said:
We know the day the early church broke bread was on a Sunday.
Upon the first day of the week when the disciple came together to break bread. Acts 20:7this establishes that they were meeting on the first day for communion and a sermon

No, my friend, I already showed you that Acts 20 is a Saturday night meeting, a lot of preaching took place BEFORE midnight, and yes, it continued till daybreak when Paul (not resting at all) started on a long journey.
Besides, they broke BREAD EVERYDAY. Acts 2:46
And I already pointed out that there are far more texts of worship upon the 7th day in Acts (including Gentiles) .

This text in Acts 20 far more supports the concept that Paul spent the Sabbath day with the believers, and that evening they came together to share a meal and listened to him once more before he left. Sunday was given to traveling.

Dedication · Aug 13, 2007

icedragon101 said:
The Epistle of Barnabas, AD 120 establishes an early record of the 8th day as a joyful day
In chapter 2 the Epistle of Barnabas says:
"Incense is a vain abomination unto me, and your new moons and Sabbaths I cannot endure. He has, therefore, abolished these things."
When he speaks of the first day of the week, Barnabas says:
"Wherefore, also, we keep the eighth day with joyfulness, the day, also, on which Jesus rose again from the dead." Chapter 25

The so called epistle of Barnabas is spurious, put out by some anonymous Gnostic writer sometime in the second century, in all probability at Alexandria. Its deceptive apostolic flag, allowed it to gain access into the Christian church.

The eighth day concept comes from Gnosticism which even in Pauls day was already starting to cause problems and perverting truth.

This Gnostic method of interpreting scripture furnishes us the very key, not to a higher knowledge of Bible truths as it claims, but it assaulted the church early and began to unlock the mystery of lawlessness.

However, even this "barnabas" does not really support the idea that the apostles transferred from Saturday to Sunday.

He wrote:

""Thou shalt sanctify it with pure hands and a pure heart." If, therefore, any one can now sanctify the day which God hath sanctified, except he is pure in heart in all things, we are deceived. Behold, therefore: certainly then one properly resting sanctifies it, when we ourselves, having received the promise, wickedness no longer existing, and all things having been made new by the Lord, shall be able to work righteousness. Then we shall be able to sanctify it, having been first sanctified ourselves. ... he meaneth. The sabbaths, that now are, are not acceptable unto me,. . . Wherefore, also, we keep the eighth day with joyfullness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead."

In other words, He agrees that the 7th day is the day God sanctified and made holy. His gnostic reasoning is that people are too sinful to worship on God's holy day so they worship on the "eighth" day instead.

Notice he gives no Biblical grounds whatsoever. It's purely gnostic reasoning -- gnostic reasoning that has gained powerful admission into the Christian church. It is NOT BIBLICAL.

Dedication · Aug 13, 2007

icedragon101 said:
Justin Martyr, AD 140 - establishes change short time after

Note: Justin's "Apology" was written at Rome about the year AD 140, only 44 years after the Apostle John received the vision of the Revelation at Patmos.
In chapter 67 of his first Apology, entitled, "Weekly Worship of the Christian" writing to the pagan emperor, Justin states:
"...we bless the Maker of all through His Son, Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost. And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the Apostles or writings of the prophets are read as long as time permits;then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructed, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and , as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought...But Sunday is the day on which God, having wrought the change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Savior on the same day rose from the dead."The Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol 1, pp. 185-186 (Emphasis Added)

Justin throughout his works usesthe heathen designations for the seventh and the first days of the week which is worthy of note. Even at this time, the 1st day was called the day of the Sun in the pagan world.

Justinian was raised a pagan, in a city that was planted in Palestine by the Emperor after the destruction of Jerusalem.
You may recall that in 135 A.D. (in the impressionable years of Justin) the Emperor Hadrian put down an insurrection of the Jews, forbad Jews to live in Israel, and made a decree AGAINST Sabbath worship. Christian churches which hither to had bishops with Jewish blood, now were replaced by Gentiles.

Justinian was a philosopher; he converted to Christianity and became a Christian philosopher. His apology according to most sources was written about 147-156 A.D. while he was living in Rome. Justin believed that the Mosaic law was added to Scripture as an afterthought because of the sinfulness of the Jews and for no other reason. It appears he was influenced by the same growing Gnostic beliefs as false Barnabbas. He was writing to an Emperor trying to place Christianity in a good light according to what an emperor would approve.

Were there Christians meeting on the first day due to all the pressure? Im sure there was. Does it mean the apostles changed the day for worship? No it does not.

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