10 commandment question....

[JohnMarsten]

Many and earnest were the efforts made to overthrow their faith. None could fail to see that if the earthly sanctuary was a figure or pattern of the heavenly, the law deposited in the ark on earth was an exact transcript of the law in the ark in heaven; and that an acceptance of the truth concerning the heavenly sanctuary involved an acknowledgment of the claims of God's law and the obligation of the Sabbath of the fourth commandment.


Were the ten commandments put in the ark in heaven when they were given to israel? or were they put there long before? I mean if its an exact transcript then I guess the rescue out of egypt at the earliest would mark the origin of the ten commandments,. would that be logical?

 

[Stryder06]

Many and earnest were the efforts made to overthrow their faith. None could fail to see that if the earthly sanctuary was a figure or pattern of the heavenly, the law deposited in the ark on earth was an exact transcript of the law in the ark in heaven; and that an acceptance of the truth concerning the heavenly sanctuary involved an acknowledgment of the claims of God's law and the obligation of the Sabbath of the fourth commandment.


Were the ten commandments put in the ark in heaven when they were given to israel? or were they put there long before? I mean if its an exact transcript then I guess the rescue out of egypt at the earliest would mark the origin of the ten commandments,. would that be logical?

Everything Moses created, in regards to the sanctuary, was made after the pattern he was shown. This pattern was of heavenly things.

A pastor once explained to me that the things God shows individuals in heaven is done so in such a way that they may be able to understand the truth that God is trying to show them.

It's almost like visions are parables in 3D

 

[JohnMarsten]

Everything Moses created, in regards to the sanctuary, was made after the pattern he was shown. This pattern was of heavenly things.

A pastor once explained to me that the things God shows individuals in heaven is done so in such a way that they may be able to understand the truth that God is trying to show them.

It's almost like visions are parables in 3D

so EGW is wrong in her saying it was an exact transcript?

 

[Stryder06]

so EGW is wrong in her saying it was an exact transcript?

Nope.

 

[JohnMarsten]

Nope.

OK, so it was just your answer that was misleading...

 

[Stryder06]

OK, so it was just your answer that was misleading...

Nope. Before I try to explain that though, tell me what good it will do you? The bible is clear that the earthly things were fashioned after the heavenly ones.

Do you believe the law of God is in heaven?

 

[rainbowinthesky]

John, I just read the above posts. How did u come to the conclusion that you did, that stryder's answer was misleading?

I can't see that.

sky

 

[JohnMarsten]

John, I just read the above posts. How did u come to the conclusion that you did, that stryder's answer was misleading?

I can't see that.

sky

The thing is: In other words I asked if the law in heaven was written at the same time as it was given to Israel. If it is really an exact transcript than it does only apply to Israel for sure. Stryder in effect gave an answer without giving an answer actually. He made me think that God showed people things from heaven in a different way than they actually were so they understand. THis made me think that the Law wasnt an exact transcript and thus EGW wrong in her assessment, but of course the mistake might be on my side and I just understood Stryder wrong/

 

[Stryder06]

The thing is: In other words I asked if the law in heaven was written at the same time as it was given to Israel. If it is really an exact transcript than it does only apply to Israel for sure. Stryder in effect gave an answer without giving an answer actually. He made me think that God showed people things from heaven in a different way than they actually were so they understand. THis made me think that the Law wasnt an exact transcript and thus EGW wrong in her assessment, but of course the mistake might be on my side and I just understood Stryder wrong/

I didn't know you were asking if the law in heaven was written at the same time. Forgive me for missing that. My answer remains the same but I can tell you that the law in heaven was there before Sinai.

What I meant is what you've explained, but that does not mean that what Sr white saw was incorrect. To keep it simple, Sr White was shown by God that the law He gave Israel exists in it's true form, in Heaven. Thus it is eternal and applicable to all humanity.

 

[rainbowinthesky]

"The law of God existed before man was created. It was adapted to the condition of holy beings; even angels were governed by it. After the fall, the principles of righteousness were unchanged. Nothing was taken from the law, not one of the holy precepts could be improved. And as it has existed from the beginning, so will it continue to exist throughout the ceaseless ages of eternity. 'Concerning thy testimonies,' says the psalmist, 'I have known of old that thou hast founded them forever.'" E.G. White, ST April 15, 1886.

But then she adds this:

"The principles of the ten commandments existed before the fall, and were of a character suited to the condition of a holy order of beings. After the fall, the principles of those precepts were not changed, but additional precepts were given to meet man in his fallen state." 3 SG 295.

Makes sense, doesn't it?

sky

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

The thing is: In other words I asked if the law in heaven was written at the same time as it was given to Israel. If it is really an exact transcript than it does only apply to Israel for sure.

A transcript does not mean 'made at the same time'

transcript

[tran-skript]  

   /ˈtræn

skrɪpt/ Show Spelled[tran-skript] Show IPA
noun

1. a written, typewritten, or printed copy; something transcribed or made by transcribing.

2. an exact copy or reproduction, especially one having an official status.

Just wanted to clear up this misconception for you so you can the see the truth of the Law being eternal.

 

[Pythons]

If God is an intelligent, Eternal & perfect substance...
...Logically a law would be an extension of that reality.
...Therefore any moral or natural law is eternal.

 

[Stryder06]

If God is an intelligent, Eternal & perfect substance...
...Logically a law would be an extension of that reality.
...Therefore any moral or natural law is eternal.

Which is why you're so desperate to prove that the sabbath isn't a moral commandment.

 

[Cribstyl]

Nope. Before I try to explain that though, tell me what good it will do you? The bible is clear that the earthly things were fashioned after the heavenly ones.

Do you believe the law of God is in heaven?

Only if the heaven is the earth. Heaven knows only one God, snce Satan and His angel were casted out. Spirits cannot be killed out commit adultry.

The ten comandments have always been to govern flesh and blood upon the earth.

 

[JohnMarsten]

Only if the heaven is the earth. Heaven knows only one God, snce Satan and His angel were casted out. Spirits cannot be killed out commit adultry.

The ten comandments have always been to govern flesh and blood upon the earth.

thats exactly my point, besides they have no father AND mother to honor, egypt isnt there as well (in heaven, and if it was on other planers, well, lets not even think about it... )

the ten commandments were made to govern things on earth with the israelites... and I guess this was because we humans are lower forms of creation, materialistic beings, I dont think there is something in heaven that is worth stealing, we dont know too much about heaven but when I even think about it I guess that materialistic/vain things dont really exist there but since none of us went to see for themselves we can only make assumptions...

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Only if the heaven is the earth. Heaven knows only one God, snce Satan and His angel were casted out. Spirits cannot be killed out commit adultry.

The ten comandments have always been to govern flesh and blood upon the earth.

Before the rebellion of Lucifer, you might have been correct. Yes, he was cast out of Heaven but what is to stop another angel from doing the same thing?

You say that angels cannot commit adultry... maybe not in a physical sense but there is a spiritual aspect to all the commandments. When the angels choose Lucifer over God, they committed adultry. They were in a covenant relationship with the Father to obey Him and they breached that covenant. (Hint: marraige is a covenant) The actions of Lucifer since the fall have shown that he has transgressed all the precepts of God Law.

JohnMarsten says the angels could not dishonour mother and father... the premise behind this commandment, the spiritual application, is that God has put us under the care of another to train us up in the ways of God. We are to honour those that were put in trust of us.... Jesus, when He was in Heaven before His advent, not only created(father&mother) the other heavenly beings but was also given them under His care. When they rebelled and followed Lucifer, they dishonoured that bond.

 

[JohnMarsten]

Before the rebellion of Lucifer, you might have been correct. Yes, he was cast out of Heaven but what is to stop another angel from doing the same thing?

You say that angels cannot commit adultry... maybe not in a physical sense but there is a spiritual aspect to all the commandments. When the angels choose Lucifer over God, they committed adultry. They were in a covenant relationship with the Father to obey Him and they breached that covenant. (Hint: marraige is a covenant) The actions of Lucifer since the fall have shown that he has transgressed all the precepts of God Law.

JohnMarsten says the angels could not dishonour mother and father... the premise behind this commandment, the spiritual application, is that God has put us under the care of another to train us up in the ways of God. We are to honour those that were put in trust of us.... Jesus, when He was in Heaven before His advent, not only created(father&mother) the other heavenly beings but was also given them under His care. When they rebelled and followed Lucifer, they dishonoured that bond.

So you are implying that the original 10 commandment were written in a laguage for humans and actually had a spiritual application for heavenly beings? right? so there must have been also a spiritual egypt out of which God has delivered the heavenly beings? right?

 

[tall73]

Which is why you're so desperate to prove that the sabbath isn't a moral commandment.

How can a memorial of a specific created object, the earth, be in existence before the specific created object?

If your assertion is that the sabbath is eternal, can you explain how that would work?

 

[Stryder06]

So you are implying that the original 10 commandment were written in a laguage for humans and actually had a spiritual application for heavenly beings? right? so there must have been also a spiritual egypt out of which God has delivered the heavenly beings? right?

You're doing it wrong

 

[Stryder06]

How can a memorial of a specific created object, the earth, be in existence before the specific created object?

If your assertion is that the sabbath is eternal, can you explain how that would work?

Sadly, it would be a waste of time. As ECR already pointed out, all of the commandments have a spiritual application which is eternal. Do I believe they were given to us in a way that was applicable for humans. Yes. But again, that doesn't take away from the spiritual application. The sabbath was given to us to Remember our Creator. That principle is eternal.