1 John 3:9 and what it means

[nephilimiyr]

1 John 3:9, No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.

John is talking about the born again spirit that God created in us when we first believed on him.

Only our spirit can be born of God and John is specifically talking about that. Our bodies were not born of God, my mother birthed me, not God. Our minds, our souls, were not born of God and they can sin, but our born again spirit can not sin.

John 1:12, Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God.

John 3:6, Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.

2 Corinthians 5:17, Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!

Ephesians 4:24, and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.

This new self, this new creation, this right to become children of God, this spirit having been born by Spirit is what John is saying has been born of God, and that is our born again spirit.

Ephesians 1:13-14, And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession, to the praise of his glory.

When we first believed, God birthed in us, created, a new self, our born again spirit. He created this spirit in us to be the same in righteousness and holiness that He is. His Holy Spirit then comes into our being and seals that born again spirit with himself and protects it from outside influences, like sin, from contaminating it. He perserves it in it's righteousness and holiness until the day our inheritance is fully given to us.

John is specifically speaking of that which was born of God and that is our born again spirit. This is how John can say that which is born of God cannot sin.

 

[nephilimiyr]

The problem with not understanding the above is that christians, especially new christians, often find themselves struggling with sin even after becoming born again. They either read this verse or are taught by others that if they're in habitual sin then they aren't saved, they aren't real christians, they haven't really been born of God yet.

The truth of the matter is that being born of God, being born again, has nothing to do with whether you continue to sin or that you are living in habitual sin. All through the whole New Testament being born of God has only one true requirement and that is believing in your heart that Jesus Christ is Lord and savior. It has nothing to do with whether people remain in habitual sin or not.

 

[Blade]

Hey nephilimiyr how are you?

Truth yet I have to disagree. On the part "The truth of the matter is that being born of God, being born again, has nothing to do with whether you continue to sin or that you are living in habitual sin."

2 Cor 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new..key word is ALL THINGS!

We will always have the flesh. Yet when we are "born again" its not a thought.. something nice.. no its REAL.. something really changes. No longer dose sin have a hold on us. We DONT have to sin. Temped yes.. yet if we LOVE Him we do not sin. The word makes it very very clear. Sin will not enter heaven. And those words were not to sinners.

So if we love Him.. we HATE sin. We no longer what to do it. Yet if we sin we know if we confess it He will forgive us. Yet this is not a license to sin. Sorry ..well not sorry but if your born again there is no "habitual sin". It has no hold on US! I am dead to sin. Jesus paid the price. I will always sin.. Yet I am FREE from it... I dont have to.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Hello Blade

Ok, so if it's impossible for a born again christian to habitually sin then why does Paul admonish to do this?
Romans 12:2, Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is, his good, pleasing and perfect will.

Whether we are believers in Christ or non-beleivers, our minds are conformed to this world, there is no getting around. Our old self may have been crucified with Christ but our minds are still conform to the world and we will continue to be conformed to the world if we don't conform our minds to Christ, or the new self that God created in us. That takes alot of time! God may have created in you a new born spirit in less than a second but transforming our minds takes a life time. AMEN?

I have a very addicting personality. meaning I get addicted to things very easily. To say that if I am habitually am engaged in a sin means I can't have salvation is what a works based salvation belief is all about.

Just because God creates a new self in you does not mean your sinful habits will automatically disappear. The only thing that happend in a person when they first became born again is that God created in them a new live spirit, that is it. God did not take your evil desires away form you.

 

[MrBojangles]

You are correct neph.
We cannot sin because God cannot sin and we have his nature.
If the verse meant that we can sin but not "habitually" then that would mean that God can sin but not "habitually.
Not so.
As Neph pointed out... we cannot sin because we have a born again spirit that is created after the nature of Him that created it.

 

[nephilimiyr]

You are correct neph.
We cannot sin because God cannot sin and we have his nature.
If the verse meant that we can sin but not "habitually" then that would mean that God can sin but not "habitually.
Not so.
As Neph pointed out... we cannot sin because we have a born again spirit that is created after the nature of Him that created it.

Well thank you MrBojangles but that wasn't what I was exactly saying. Oh yes we can sin.

Our born again spirit can't sin nor can it be effected by sin. This is what John was refering to. Our born again spirit was born of God and cannot sin, neither one time or habitually. in our soul we can sin and more than once, or habitually, yet we may still have that born again spirit in us that the Holy Spirit will not only protect but keep us saved.

 

[MrBojangles]

Well thank you MrBojangles but that wasn't what I was exactly saying. Oh yes we can sin.

Our born again spirit can't sin nor can it be effected by sin. This is what John was refering to. Our born again spirit was born of God and cannot sin, neither one time or habitually. in our soul we can sin and more than once, or habitually, yet we may still have that born again spirit in us that the Holy Spirit will not only protect but keep us saved.

Agreed... we can still commit sin, but not from our born again spirit.
We still have a flesh to contend with and if we walk in the flesh, then we most certainly will sin.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Agreed... we can still commit sin, but not from our born again spirit.
We still have a flesh to contend with and if we walk in the flesh, then we most certainly will sin.

Ok, yes, we're on the same page.

 

[JimfromOhio]

As Christians, spiritually, we are without sin because God is without sin. However, at the same time, we Christians are still living in our temporary fleshly body that still carries SIN. We are no longer sinners? Not true, we are still sinners but forgiven sinners when we accept Christ as our Lord and Savior. 1 John 1:8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. God is very holy and very powerful that I am a forgiven sinner. We are to worship God from our hearts because we are the temple of the living God (2 Corinthians 6:16), that God will search us and try us, and know our thoughts.(Psalm 139:23).

There are two kinds of sinning:
1. Sin on purpose (with a will) Those who were unwilling to pick up the Cross and unwilling to put away their sins as Christ commanded. (Those who proclaimed to be a Christian will probably remain "unsaved" falls in this category).

2. Sin by accident as part of our sinful nature: Those who are in Christ Romans 7:18 I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. Galatians 5:17 For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want.

Romans 12:2 Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will. As long as we are making efforts to live in holiness, then God is very pleased. Christians have a dual citizenship however earth is a sinful place while Heaven is beautiful and sinless that we are to remember that we are citizens of heaven even though we live in a foreign world. We CAN'T live here on earth as we will in Heaven. We are in Christ His position is our position, His privilege is our privilege, His possessions are our possessions, and His practice our practice. We are significant not because of who we are, but because of who we are in Christ. As Paul said, "By the grace of God I am what I am" (1 Cor. 15:10).

This is why not many people are healed even though healing is happening everyday. Due to sinful world and that I am still living in a sinful body that is still decaying, life is filled with pain and sorrow and suffering. Going back to Matthew, he explains the fact that Isaiah 53:4 extends from the sin problem to sickness which means there's healing and wholeness in the atonement, but only as it comes to us in the fullness of salvation, when our bodies decayed, died and are glorified in His eternal Kingdom.

One day, He will take away all our sicknesses away, but the healing that took place during His earthly ministry was only a small anticipatory sample of that which was spoken by the prophet Isaiah of what will happen.

 

[KingZzub]

I couldn't be bothered reading through all the comments, but the OP is excellent Biblical truth. Thanks Neph!

 

[DeborahsSong]

Thank you for this thread and your comments. John states that the child of the devil sins, and the child of God cannot sin. We once were all the former, and now we are all the later. It's the Stockholm syndrome at work to still identify with the Adamic being. Paul goes into this in Romans 7.

I like what Enoch Son has to say about Ro 5:9-11. We were justified by his blood, reconciled by his death, and saved by his life. (Sometimes we confuse justification with salvation. Salvation is being made whole.) We are all part of his resurrection life, and learning, knowing and acknowledging that life is the path of salvation. Also, there is a rest to that life. The rest tells the flesh it is a dead thing, and relies upon God.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Thank you and your welcome Deborah, and you bringing up child of the devil was something good to add here because it all really boils down to who we are, children of the devil or children of God.

 

[EdwardG]

Hello Blade

I have a very addicting personality. meaning I get addicted to things very easily. To say that if I am habitually am engaged in a sin means I can't have salvation is what a works based salvation belief is all about.

Just because God creates a new self in you does not mean your sinful habits will automatically disappear. The only thing that happend in a person when they first became born again is that God created in them a new live spirit, that is it. God did not take your evil desires away form you.

Dear Nephilimiyr

To a great extent I agree with you. With your permission I am posting a poem of mine that I wrote during one of those struggles, similar to what you have said above. Hope it would be an encouragement to people like you and me.

'An Obsessive sinners prayer'

Every Sunday after church, there is so much that I decide
But by mid week, I have already changed the sides
My resolutions to be blameless and just
Often fails to the world’s attractions and lust
Sad, so easily I can lose the sight of thee
Oh Lord please don’t give up on me.

You would have seen so many prodigal sons,
They left you for the world, just only for once
But I ran away from you time and time again,
Broke your heart and caused you all the pain
I wonder, how can you still love someone like me
Oh Lord Please don’t give up on me.

I do wonder sometimes, does one always need the devil,
To sin, transgress and go against Your will,
It seems so natural, there is someone strange within
Who is inclined to stray, rebel, transgress and sin
It seems impossible on my own to break free
Oh Lord please don’t give up on me.

Hypocrisy is my middle name, I’ve learned to live with my guilt and shame
Over the years pretending to be a good believer has become an easy game
But when your people appreciate me are the moments worst
That reminds me of how much I have breached your trust
I don’t know whether I still deserve to plead with thee
Oh Lord please don’t give up on me.

I don’t step back in helping others or hold back in giving
But it’s seems impossible when it comes to a holy way of living
Without holiness, my sacrifices and ministries are waste
As you desire men who are faithful, holy and chaste
God, will there be a light at the end of the tunnel for me?
Oh Lord please don’t give up on me

Today we have enough of commentaries, denominations and bible resources
But lack the will, strength and character to resist the evil forces
Send us the power like on the Pentecostal day
Touch us and renew us in your own special way
Such that we hate sin and serve you happily
Oh my Lord please don’t give up on me.


Now I see why you have delayed and yet have not come
So that your prodigal sons may have a chance to return home
Just when I feel that I can’t face you and am ready to throw the towel
Strangely you whisper ‘come back son everything’s going to be well’
Your limitless love and abounding mercy is too difficult for me to see
Oh Lord please don’t give up on me


There was a time when I felt that I have no scope
To enter your rest, I had absolutely no hope
My heart was full of dejection and condemnation crept
I knelt down at my wretchedness and inconsolably wept
Then you said,’ I took the beatings, the nails, and like a cursed was hanging on the tree
I have paid too heavy a price for you son, to just give up on thee
I have paid too heavy a price for you son, to just give up on thee’.

Now my spirit is renewed, my strength has grown
With confidence and assurance I will approach your throne
You have replaced my long faces, with a radiant grin
As far as the east is from the west, so far from me is now my sin
I am a work under progress; things are not as they are supposed to be
But sooner I know my God you will be pleased with me
It’s because my Savior has never given up on me. Amen

By Edward G

BRothers and Sisters in Christ, be blessed and thank Him for His Grace... Amen

 

[nephilimiyr]

Yes that did encourage me Edward, thanks!

 

[EdwardG]

Yes that did encourage me Edward, thanks!

You are welcome Sir.

 

[KingZzub]

1 John 3:9, No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.

This is a wonderful post, and exactly the encouraging, edifying kind of thing that SHOULD be on a Christian Forum, especially one that is filled with the glory and goodness of the Holy Spirit.

John is talking about the born again spirit that God created in us when we first believed on him.

Absolutely. Jesus Christ has completely redeemed us and the instant we are born of the Spirit we are made righteous and given new life in our spirit. Our redeemed spirits are perfect and without sin.

Only our spirit can be born of God and John is specifically talking about that. Our bodies were not born of God, my mother birthed me, not God. Our minds, our souls, were not born of God and they can sin, but our born again spirit can not sin.

John 1:12, Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God.

John 3:6, Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.

2 Corinthians 5:17, Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!

This is awesome! We are a new creation - a new species of being: a righteous, holy, pure living spiritual man. The old dead, shame-filled, pain-filled dead on the inside man is gone forever. Our spiritual nature perfectly matches our Father - we are partakers of the divine nature.

Ephesians 4:24, and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.

This new self, this new creation, this right to become children of God, this spirit having been born by Spirit is what John is saying has been born of God, and that is our born again spirit.

Ephesians 1:13-14, And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession, to the praise of his glory.

When we first believed, God birthed in us, created, a new self, our born again spirit. He created this spirit in us to be the same in righteousness and holiness that He is. His Holy Spirit then comes into our being and seals that born again spirit with himself and protects it from outside influences, like sin, from contaminating it. He perserves it in it's righteousness and holiness until the day our inheritance is fully given to us.

This is the most wonderful truth. This is the most awesome revelation. We are free from sin. Full of righteousness and holiness. And God only knows us in the spirit, we worship in spirit and we pray in the spirit. Anything we ask in His name is ours because we are righteous in spirit. Not due to anything we have done, but entirely due to what Christ has done.

John is specifically speaking of that which was born of God and that is our born again spirit. This is how John can say that which is born of God cannot sin.

And this is the message of Easter, the message of redemption, the message of peace. This is the gospel of grace.

Neph, you stated it beautifully, and I feel inspired reading it. Thanks so much for posting.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

This is one of the most important and oft missed teachings in the church.
This is what the resurrection of Jesus was all about. We are born again after the image of the Lord who create our new born spirit.

1 Peter 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

 

[KingZzub]

Amen. Peter then goes on to say that we are partaking of the divine nature.

If someone understood the depth of that alone they would never be depressed again.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Thanks Zub, 1 John 3:9 used to be one of those verses I could never understand. It was one of those passages that scared me because of what I thought was the odvious implication, meaning that if we sin we are not truely saved. I eventually was taught that, even though the passage says nothing about habitual sin it was only talking about habitual sin. I was thinking well, ok, then, I was a smoker at the time and this interpretation didn't help me out at all either. And when they coupled this passage along with the passage in Matthew where Jesus says to be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect, I felt doomed.

This is when I started to seriously back slide into a life of more and more sin because I figured what's the use. I began to see God as being a cruel and unjust God, first He says He gives the free gift of eternal life if only we believe in him, but then it seemed He was saying this gift is only free if you act in a certain way, only if you completely live an absolutely perfect life, regardless of the temptations and troubles. I eventually stuck my finger at God and said fine, have it your way, I want nothing to do with you!

I never stopped believing in God but I was against him and lived my life in that way. Oh what I shame I listened to the people with their faulty interpretations. Now with the belief I have about these things I feel like a ton of bricks are off my shoulders, I finally feel totally free. The important thing is I no longer see God as a cruel and unjust God but totally compassionate, totally loving and caring, and understanding. He is a God who deeply want to be intimately involved in every aspect of my life. And slowly but surely I am stripping away every last stubborn hold up I have, ego. It's all his, and the more I trust in him by giving it all to him the more He is transforming my life. See being a christian isn't at all about self behavior modification, it's about surrendering yourself to him so that He can make the changes. I don't know how He does it but He does it!!

 

[sincerity2u]

The Holy Spirit of Truth speaking through John is speaking in context following verse eight, and then verse nine, to illustrate the cause of verse ten. Whosoever deliberately, willfully sins is of the devil; but whosoever is born of God, which is to say, they who have resurrected from the death of sin to the life of righteousness; these they are who no longer deliberately, and willfully sin, because that seed, the conscience of the heavenly Truth is their influence, and they cannot deliberately, willfully sin, because of this rebirth.