1 John 1:9

[Butterball1]

You are making the identity of whom he saves, a work of the flesh that cannot save.

Hebrews 5:9 "And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;"
The language cannot be more plain, Christ saves those who obey Him. Salvation is not random by lottery or for some unknown reason, but God saves those who obey.

 

[Dave L]

Hebrews 5:9 "And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;"
The language cannot be more plain, Christ saves those who obey Him. Salvation is not random by lottery or for some unknown reason, but God saves those who obey.

Who obeys him? The ones you can spot performing good works. You are turning the characteristics of the saved into works for hypocrites to mimic.

 

[Butterball1]

Why do babies die? The wages of sin (hate) are death.

Babies die as a consequence of Adam sinning, we will all physically die as a consequence of Adam sinning, Hebrews 9:27. All will not spiritually die (Romans 6:23).

A drunk driver crosses the center line killing the occupants of another vehicle. They died as a consequence of the drunk driver's sin, they did not inherit the drunk driver's sins

 

[Butterball1]

Who obeys him? The ones you can spot performing good works. You are turning the characteristics of the saved into works for hypocrites to mimic.

Anyone that chooses to obey can obey Him.

 

[Dave L]

Anyone that chooses to obey can obey Him.

They cannot discern the true Christ. They choose only idols they call by his name. I'm moving on. See you later.

 

[John Mullally]

They cannot discern the true Christ. They choose only idols they call by his name. I'm moving on. See you later.

When all else fails produce another bizarre baseless reference to people setting up idols as being Christ - its like playing a scratched record. Good time Dave L to question your theology if that is the best comeback to scripture you have got.

 

[Clare73]

Many Scriptures in the New Testament teach about the New Birth using various terms such as:

• making alive,
• giving life,
• renewal,
• new creation,
• darkness to light,
• raised with Christ,
• death to life.

Since "John 3:7-9" does not teach who is given birth, or when or how that birth takes place then. . .

Show me anywhere in Scripture where it teaches what you are presuming as follows:

Faith/justification/salvation/eternal life are the simultaneous effects of the new birth, which is only by sovereign choice of the Holy Spirit

You can't even see the kingdom of God until you are born again (Jn 3:5), much less be in it, which the above are all part of.

Show me anywhere in Scripture that teaches as you presume in the following:

The new birth is never lost

Regarding the justification above: Ro 8:30 - "those he justified, he glorified." Past tense, done deal, heaven guaranteed.

Show me anywhere in Scripture that teaches as you presume that "root" has anything to do with "rebirth" as you states as follows:

Only the tares fall away, because they have no root (rebirth). Lk 8:13

My first response above shows that the new birth is the root of everything.

Plus, you are mixing two unrelated Scriptures, one of which speaks about "faith" and the other about "tares." Why would you do that?

I've just shown they are "related."

 

[John Mullally]

You are making the identity of whom he saves, a work of the flesh that cannot save.

Hard to argue with abstract or incoherent accusations (what you denounce as being work of the flesh that cannot save). I don't find any of that kind of terminology in my New King James NT. Concentrate, Concentrate. The rest of us cannot mind-read!

 

[Clare73]

The context of 1 John 1:7-9 is John is writing to those who are Christians. And saying IF they continue to walk in the light and IF they continue to confess their sins then they will continually have their sins cleansed away. Justification is a process not a one and done deal completed when one has faith only regardless of what the Christian ever does.

Christians who are dealing with false teachers (2:26, 3:7) of Gnosticism, who were teaching that disobeying God's law didn't matter to God, and who were living licentiously.

 

[John Mullally]

Christians who are dealing with false teachers (2:26, 3:7) of Gnosticism, who were teaching that disobeying God's law didn't matter to God, and who were living licentiously.

1 John 1 referenced in the OP uses "we" many times. If it was dealing with heresies, John would have instead used the term "they" as we can see used in 2 Peter 2 which expressed dealt with heresies and false teachers. There may be many points in 1 John 1 that can be used against Gnosticism - but Gnosticism is not the subject of 1 John 1, much less 1 John 1:9.

 

[friend of]

You were probably born again at an early age. Salvation has nothing to do with "choosing to be saved". That's a false concept.

I really dont think so, cuz I fell away for years

 

[pescador]

The context of 1 John 1:7-9 is John is writing to those who are Christians. And saying IF they continue to walk in the light and IF they continue to confess their sins then they will continually have their sins cleansed away. Justification is a process not a one and done deal completed when one has faith only regardless of what the Christian ever does.

John was not writing to those who are Christians. Why would he write "Now this is the gospel message we have heard from him and announce to you: God is light, and in him there is no darkness at all." If they were Christians, they would not need to have the gospel announced to them. (Do you need the gospel announced to you?)

Justification was accomplished by Jesus' sacrifice on the cross. You can't be justified over and over, any more than you can be found innocent of any crime more than once if you have been found to be innocent of the charge. Romans 5:1-2, "Therefore, since we have been declared righteous by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have also obtained access into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in the hope of God’s glory."

 

[John Mullally]

Christians who are dealing with false teachers (2:26, 3:7) of Gnosticism, who were teaching that disobeying God's law didn't matter to God, and who were living licentiously.

Sounds like our modern day hyper-grace.

 

[Clare73]

Sounds like our modern day hyper-grace.

That's basically what it was then also.

 

[setst777]

Many Scriptures in the New Testament teach about the New Birth using various terms such as:

• making alive,
• giving life,
• renewal,
• new creation,
• darkness to light,
• raised with Christ,
• death to life.

Since "John 3:7-9" does not teach who is given birth, or when or how that birth takes place then -

Show me anywhere in Scripture where it teaches what you are presuming as follows:

Faith/justification/salvation/eternal life are the simultaneous effects of the new birth

You can't even see the kingdom of God until you are born again (Jn 3:5), much less be in it, which the above are all part of.

Setst RE: John 3:5 does not say “see.” The word is “enter into”

John 3:5 (Disciples’ Literal New Testament)
5 Jesus responded, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he is not able to enter into the kingdom of God.

We all agree that we must be born again by the Holy Spirit to enter into the Kingdom of God. That is a given, and is all the details we can glean from John 3:5

• This Passage does not say how it occurs, when it occurs, or for whom.
• Nothing in this Passage teaches about faith, justification, salvation, and eternal life being simultaneous effects of the new birth.

The NT does fully explain the new birth in the Spirit, but you didn't use any of those Passages. Why not???

Show me anywhere in Scripture that teaches as you presume in the following:

...

The new birth is never lost

Regarding the justification above: Ro 8:30 - "those he justified, he glorified." Past tense, done deal, heaven guaranteed.

Setst RE:

Firstly, Romans 8:28-30 does not teach about the new birth, or that the new birth is never lost. If you disagree, then show me in Romans 8:30 where the new birth is mentioned, without presuming your assumptions onto God’s Word.

Secondly, in Romans 8:30, God justified and glorified “the ones loving God” (see: Romans 8:28).

Romans 8:28-30 Disciples’ Literal New Testament
28 And we know that all things are working-together for good for the ones loving God

• For whom are all thing working together for good?
• The answer is: For "the ones loving God."

"The ones loving God" is the subject whom Paul is addressing as the recipients of all God does for them, for their good, in Romans 8:28-30.

The ones loving God, for whom God works out all things for their good, are those who are believing in Jesus, having been called by the Gospel according to God’s purpose.

The promises of God to the ones loving Him [Believers] is all we can glean from the context of Romans 8:28-30. So, if you continue loving God, then these promises of God will remain yours.

• Nothing about the New Birth in Romans 8:30.
• Nothing in Romans 8:28-30 states guarantees anything, unless you are loving God.
• Nothing in Romans 8:28-30 teaches that God is causing you to love God; rather, the Passage clearly states that the ones loving God are the ones God works out all things for their good.
• So by loving God or believing we are justified and glorified (Romans 5:1-2).

Show me anywhere in Scripture that teaches as you presume that "root" has anything to do with "rebirth" as you states as follows:

Only the tares fall away, because they have no root (rebirth). Lk 8:13

My first response above shows that the new birth is the root of everything.

Setst RE: The “root” refers to the effect of the Word of Faith (the Gospel) that is preached on the hearts of three different kinds of persons. This Parable is not discussing the new birth.

• Lord Jesus explains the parable to his disciples in Matthew 13:18-22.
• Nothing in Jesus’ explanation even hints at the new birth; rather,
• Jesus is teaching about the hearts of three different kinds of persons and how their heart’s condition affects how the Word of Faith is received by them.
• For instance, their heart's condition may have to do with their humility, or pride - for the humble will listen, while the proud will resist the Gospel and the convicting work of the Spirit.
• Lord Jesus attributes their heart condition [in his explanation] on different factors, but never attributed it to the working of Holy Spirit.

You are reading into the Passage the new birth, when that is not the purpose of that Parable.
How do we know this? Because Lord Jesus explains the Parable to His Disciples, and the explanation has nothing to do with the new birth.

By reading into this Passage your own thoughts on how, when, why, and for whom, the new birth is given is not respecting God or His Word.

God does fully explain the new birth in other Passages, when read in context. You didn't use those Scriptures - why not?

Plus, you are mixing two unrelated Scriptures, one of which speaks about "faith" and the other about "tares." Why would you do that?

I've just shown they are "related."

Setst RE: They are not related.

The Parable of the sower is about the seed (Word of Faith or Gospel) planted on the hearts of people and how they react to the Gospel.

The Parable of the wheat and the tares is teaching about how believers are allowed by God to live with those who do not believe. God allows them to live together until the end, lest it be that the angels accidently pluck out some of the faithful with the unbelievers.

Blessings

 

[Servus]

I never argued that doing many good works saves. What I have argued that obedience to God's will saves specifically in believing John 8:24; repenting of sins Luke 13:3 confession Matthew 10:22-23 and submitting to baptism, Mark 16:16. Then after obeying and one becomes a Christian he is to live a faithful life to Christ unto death, Revelation 2:10. Doing good works is part of living faithful unto Christ and necessary for the Christian to be fruitful else become unfruitful and cut off like an unfruitful branch and cast into the fire. An athiest can do many good works but they will never save him, not until one obeys by believing, repenting, confessing and submitting to baptism can he then be saved.

The question is, how much human endeavor is needed to create a formula for salvation?

God "needs" us to choose to accept Him in order to maintain our free will. But how much does God need from us beyond that?

 

[Dave L]

I really dont think so, cuz I fell away for years

My second guess is that you were never saved until now. Many Churches teach salvation by works and most thinking they are saved are in this same situation today. Jesus says whoever believes in him has eternal life. You must believe or this would be of no concern.

 

[setst777]

My second guess is that you were never saved until now. Many Churches teach salvation by works and most thinking they are saved are in this same situation today. Jesus says whoever believes in him has eternal life. You must believe or this would be of no concern.

The real question here is:

How do you define the faith of the Gospel?

 

[Danthemailman]

The question is, how much human endeavor is needed to create a formula for salvation?

God "needs" us to choose to accept Him in order to maintain our free will. But how much does God need from us beyond that?

What you witnessed in that post was the 5 step plan of salvation according to the church of Christ. Through bad semantics and flawed hermeneutics, the CoC teaches salvation by faith and works.

Faith and Repentance

 

[Servus]

Sounds like our modern day hyper-grace.

I think certain members are seeing hyper-grace where it doesn't exist. I've yet to see anyone here say the grace of God is a license for immorality. Even though I've seen that accusation being made a lot.