“Such Are They Also That Are Heavenly”

WordSword

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If I walk faithfully here, it is desert where nothing contributes to me. I am set here as the Lord Jesus’ witness to draw all my supplies from elsewhere. The harbor, where the supplies come in, is the only cheering spot in this dry and barren land where no water is. I must seek and receive everything from outside this desert island.

The Old Testament believer sought and received favors in this scene. The mighty power of God fed him – the faithful one – with the finest of wheat, and with honey out of the rock satisfied him (Psa 81:16). But now there is nothing here for the faithful one – his supplies are from above and the power of the Lord Jesus to make him strong in weakness, so that a sense of weakness is actual gain (2 Cor 12:10)! Thus he is looking to bring Him from above into his circumstances, and to know His power in his weakness, so that his enjoyment is not from this earth, but outside it with Him in heaven.

The Old Testament believer had joy in God’s gifts to him – God’s power made things here to contribute to him. But the Christian’s joy is in heaven and springs from what the Father has given him there. He demands nothing from this world, but in the power of the Lord Jesus contributes to it, of the grace that nourishes and comforts him outside it.

Not only is my all in heaven, but I need the Lord Jesus’ power to enable me to rise above the sense of my own infirmity down here; for this world instead of contributing to me, makes me feel my weakness and need, and that I must rise out of it to find and enjoy my blessing. The very infirmity which this evil age makes me conscious of causes me to draw upon the power of the Lord Jesus, as the One outside it, passing into the heavens, so that I take pleasure in the very infirmity which is exposed here, “that the power of Christ may rest upon me” (2 Cor 12:9).

It is difficult to accept the fact that nothing here contributes to the life of the Lord Jesus in you. In Old Testament times the power of God made things down here contribute to His own and infirmities were removed. But now it is: “When I am weak, then am I strong”.

In Colossians 2:20, we have “died with Christ from the elements of the world”. We have ended our history in Adam and practically have (walk in—NC) a new place. His death puts us outside everything here. His death for us removed all between the Father and us; our death with Him removed all between us and the Father.

There is no question about there being a beautiful position for the believer, but people limit it to it being theirs when they die. Scripture shows that it is ours now! “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ (Eph 2:13). They say, “You get heaven when you die.” No such thing. You are there “now”. It is not your death that entitles you to it, but the Lord Jesus’ death. There is not a single shade that was between us and the Father, but the Lord Jesus has removed in His death. No person can be truly happy until he knows that he has a new place now and this is where the Lord Jesus is. “Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For you have died, and your life is hid with Christ in God” (Col 3:2, 3).

– J B Stoney (1814-97)
 

com7fy8

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So, this Post #1 is a quote of what J B Stoney said.
There is no question about there being a beautiful position for the believer, but people limit it to it being theirs when they die. Scripture shows that it is ours now!
We have all God pleases to share with us, when we die . . . to self. "let him deny himself", Jesus says in Luke 9:23.

So, it seems ones understand we already in Christ are in Heaven. But is this positional . . . theoretical . . . or do we actually now experience Heaven?

If a child of God actually now experiences Heaven . . . how might we describe this? By what means do we have this and nurture this?? If we do now experience Heaven, do we already perfectly now experience Heaven, or are we growing and maturing in experiencing Heaven???

. . . if I may ask for discussion in your thread . . .
 
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WordSword

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So, it seems ones understand we already in Christ are in Heaven. But is this positional . . . theoretical . . . or do we actually now experience Heaven?
Hi, and thanks for the reply, and appreciate the instructional comments and questions! It's my understanding that the intention of "positional" is in the sense that Christ presently represents the believer there, while we represent Him here. We are literally in union with Him and the Father via the Holy Spirit, and are unified to all believers in Christ. "Position" also intends the surety that all reborn are as certain to arrive there as if it were so now.

If a child of God actually now experiences Heaven . . . how might we describe this?
I believe the present "experience" of heaven has mainly to do with what we have in Christ in this life (salvation, the Spirit and His fruit, etc.). I wouldn't think just knowing what the Word reveals of heaven would qualify as experience, so to me I see the Church is presently there via the Lord Jesus, we presently being literally connected with Him. We are not present in presence, but in our unification of the Spirit, who is unified with the Son.

By what means do we have this and nurture this?? If we do now experience Heaven, do we already perfectly now experience Heaven, or are we growing and maturing in experiencing Heaven???

. . . if I may ask for discussion in your thread . . .
Thanks for the encouraging kindness, and anyone can say and ask anything in my threads! The better we know and understand the Word, the more we experience heaven-like lifestyles, and the most I think we will experience of heaven now is via "all things that pertain unto life and godliness," as this is "through the knowledge (Scriptures) of Him that hath called us" (2Pe 1:3).

God bless and God be blessed!
 
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com7fy8

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the present "experience" of heaven has mainly to do with what we have in Christ in this life (salvation, the Spirit and His fruit, etc.)
If we have Heaven's own Jesus in us, we are experiencing Him and therefore how Heaven is . . . I would say.

But . . . we grow in Christ. This grows.

Also, God is sharing Heaven's own love with us, I would say, based on Romans 5:5 >

"Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us." (Romans 5:5)

I would say God's love is Heaven's love. And I think there is various scripture which describes God's love . . . Heavenly in quality . . . as being gentle and humble and all-loving, beautifully pure and sweetly pleasant and resting our soul, and sharing with us God's own almighty immunity against fear and worry and unforgiveness and all other cruel and anti-love things.

I say "gentle and humble", because Jesus who is in us is "gentle and lowly in heart" > Matthew 11:28-30.

And this love is sweetly pleasing . . . even to God our Father Himself. So, this love in us is very pleasing > after all, Jesus even on the cross was "a sweet-smelling aroma." (in Ephesians 5:2) So, I see how this love can keep us pleasing to our Father, while also pleasing us . . . during any circumstance > after all, our Apostle Paul says he took "pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ's sake" (in 2 Corinthians 12:10). God's grace is the living of His love in us, with Heavenly "pleasure" during any circumstance, I now understand and possibly have experienced, though I need to grow in this much more.

And this love is quiet > in "the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God." (in 1 Peter 3:4) This gentleness and quietness of God's love is experienced in us now. And note how this is "incorruptible" > having almighty safety against being corrupted by unquiet things of worry and hurry and boredom and loneliness and unforgiveness and nasty and abusive sorts of arguing and anger.
 
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WordSword

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If we have Heaven's own Jesus in us, we are experiencing Him and therefore how Heaven is . . . I would say.

But . . . we grow in Christ. This grows.
I like all your shared! I think it could be said that Heaven is not yet on earth, but is in those reborn (Luk 17:21). I think wherever Christ is, there is connection to heaven; and it's the Life of Christ in us by the Spirit (Col 3:4).
 
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com7fy8

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I think wherever Christ is, there is connection to heaven;
Jesus says,

"'Blessed are the poor in spirit,
. For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.'"

. . . . . . . . . . . . .(Matthew 5:3)

To me, "poor in spirit" means I do not desire to have many things and much control of people and things, but I am satisfied with God and His love and how He has me loving any and all people. So, it is the opposite of the guy who lusts for a woman, so he already has committed adultery in his heart > instead, a person poor in spirit in one's heart does not lust for money or honey or control, and therefore already is satisfied with God and His heavenly way of loving and sharing.

So, it does not mean I am poor in the things of the Holy Spirit, but I am not first or mainly concerned with how much I have in this life of material things and control, maybe > "be content with such things as you have" (in Hebrews 13:5).

Because I am with God, I am sharing with Him in His heavenly realm of His love and how He has us loving. And so already I am in the "kingdom of heaven" > the spiritual realm . . . of Heaven's love.
 
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WordSword

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Jesus says,

"'Blessed are the poor in spirit,
. For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.'"

. . . . . . . . . . . . .(Matthew 5:3)

To me, "poor in spirit" means I do not desire to have many things and much control of people and things, but I am satisfied with God and His love and how He has me loving any and all people.
Hi, and I like your reply and comments. To me, the intention of "poor in spirit" has to do with spiritual things, in realizing how poor (lacking) mankind is of the things of God, of which most do not consider or are aware. It's only when He reveals to us this separation from Him that we begin to learn of all He desires for us. Believers at rebirth are given "all things that pertain unto life and godliness" (2Pe 1:3); thus the Spirit teaches us to manifest in our walk all that we already are in Christ!

Being "poor in spirit" is good, in the sense that it leads to richness in God, and of course nothing is greater, nor comparable!
 
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