‘If We Don’t Take a Stand Now’ against Hostility, the Church Could Become ‘Voiceless,’ Pastor Warns

[sfs]

I'm sure you would believe anything as long as it passes your scrutiny test. That's great for you, as long as you know how how to discern the truth from lies.

The first step is you've got to try to tell the difference. You haven't even gotten to that step.

You claim to have the monopoly on the truth

Um, no, you're the one who claims to be infallible because you're a Christian. (By the way, your knowledge of Christian doctrine seems to be almost as deficient as your knowledge of science -- being a Christian doesn't make us infallible.) I'm just a scientist who constantly has to test his ideas against data and against the critique of other scientists. Methinks you're projecting here.

I don't know what qualifications you have make such a big call. If you expect me to have faith in your judgement, I will need more than the old "oh' most people have drunk the kool aid so it must be OK"

Exactly. You have no idea what my qualifications are, yet you know with absolute certainty that you know more about evolution than I do. I work with genetic data all day, every day, while you have no idea what the genetic evidence for evolution is. The problem with assuming that you already know everything relevant is that you'll never learn anything at all. And if you happen to be wrong about knowing everything -- well, you're going to be an awfully poor witness for the Christian faith if it turns out you've been repeating lies and needlessly defaming others.

Just to be clear... You think that because you are a Christian, you have infallible knowledge of the truth. And all of the other Christians who disagree with you -- about evolution, among many other things -- do they also have infallible knowledge of the truth? Or are you the only infallible one?

 

[7thKeeper]

No complex here, I'm just speaking the truth as I live it. I appreciate the truth is stranger than fiction, so I wouldn't expect non Christians to understand as God has hidden it from them.

God said, they will seek Me diligently but they will never find Me. He only reveals Himself to His chosen or elect if you like

You answered to the question of when you stopped learning, at 12. Yeah, that's about as arrogant, or maybe rather prideful as it gets. I'd suggest you talk to others about the fallible nature of humans. Hint, that includes you.

 

[loveofourlord]

I have no problem with feathered dinosaurs, I'm sure there were many kinds but none were transitioning between the species. Feathered creatures still belong to bird species. They never became flying pigs.

The deal braker for evolutionists, is we haven't found a single transitional fossil to support the theory that one species of animal, say a fish becoming a mammal. Those missing links don't exist because the theory is false to begin with.

so you accept evolution congradulations :> Because ancient dinosaurs to modern is far more complicated evolution then anything else believed.

Your starting to sound like a troll now, if dinosaurs that were believed to have evolved into birds is not a transitional fossil then what would you think is? is god trolling/lying by putting dinosaurs with feathers in the line that would have evolved into birds?

 

[loveofourlord]

But the ToE hinges on the existence of transitional fossils which would show the intermediatory spices. I'm not talking about environmental adaptation, which occurs when animals go though some changes to help them cope with their environment. An example may be the feathered dinosaur we mentioned.
Perhaps there was some kind of pole shift and the animal found itself in a cold climate and it grew feathers to help it cope in it's new environment.

What we're looking for is evidence of one species changing into a different one. We haven't found any fossils to support that theory, every single fossil was a fully formed finished animal. We simply don't have any transitional animals to speak of

well duhhh they are fully formed what do you think a transitional animal would look like, even under the theory of evolution? Every step is small changes that over thousands or millions of generations creates huge changes.

 

[Dan1988]

Well, I suppose I could make a similar claim, that my position is based upon all the relevant data and that I am aware of all I need to know. But that would be infantile nonsense.

The most important thing I am aware of is my own ignorance. I recognise many of the limitations to my knowledge and understand that there are "unknown unknowns" I am unaware of. This is a very comfortable position to be in, for it stops me from false confidence and the adoption of flawed beliefs.

It also warns me to treat with considerable caution the views of anyone who claims to "know everything that is relevant and necessary to know". The trappings of arrogance have never seemed persuasive to me.

You have amazing faith in yourself, sounds like you have it figured out so you can sit back and enjoy the fruits of your wisdom. I don't have any faith in myself at all, all my faith is invested in the Lord.

 

[Dan1988]

so you accept evolution congradulations :> Because ancient dinosaurs to modern is far more complicated evolution then anything else believed.

Your starting to sound like a troll now, if dinosaurs that were believed to have evolved into birds is not a transitional fossil then what would you think is? is god trolling/lying by putting dinosaurs with feathers in the line that would have evolved into birds?

There you go again, saying it is believed to have evolved. Sorry I have no faith in your religion, it's just to fantastic to be real. Domestic pigs grow long hair if thy escape their enclosure and go feral. You would call that evolution, I call it physiological adaptation to the environment.

We have never found a transitional fossil, feathers on a dinosaur is just a sign that it experienced an ice age or extreme cold.

 

[Ophiolite]

Here are two links that are ideal for doubters of evolution to either ignore or find fault with:

Biology:List of transitional fossils - HandWiki

handwiki.org

Transitional fossil - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Others may find some thoughts or examples on the topic that are new to you.

 

[Dan1988]

well duhhh they are fully formed what do you think a transitional animal would look like, even under the theory of evolution? Every step is small changes that over thousands or millions of generations creates huge changes.

Allow me to point out a major problem with your theory. How did those slimy pond scum creatures, manage to grow legs and wings over millions of years. Let me guess, they laid on the water shore for millions of years waiting for their legs and wings to develop, without being eaten alive while they lay there helplessly for millions of years.

Surely you can see how absurd and insulting to the intelligence such a theory is.

 

[BCP1928]

Allow me to point out a major problem with your theory. How did those slimy pond scum creatures, manage to grow legs and wings over millions of years. Let me guess, they laid on the water shore for millions of years waiting for their legs and wings to develop, without being eaten alive while they lay there helplessly for millions of years.

Surely you can see how absurd and insulting to the intelligence such a theory is.

Yes you are right, evolution couldn't possibly work in that way.

 

[Estrid]

well duhhh they are fully formed what do you think a transitional animal would look like, even under the theory of evolution? Every step is small changes that over thousands or millions of generations creates huge changes.

Lo, and many a time I have asked the same
q about a "half formed" creature.

This is our big chance to learn for the
Infallible one is here.

 

[Estrid]

Allow me to point out a major problem with your theory. How did those slimy pond scum creatures, manage to grow legs and wings over millions of years. Let me guess, they laid on the water shore for millions of years waiting for their legs and wings to develop, without being eaten alive while they lay there helplessly for millions of years.

Surely you can see how absurd and insulting to the intelligence such a theory is.

We can see how stunningly ignorant
you are.
We notice how this doesnt match your fantasy of infallibility.
We see how absurd your beliefs
about evolution are.
We are aware you just make up the
things you say.
And artempt to insult our intelligence with a claim
that youve actually described our thinking.

Adds up to zero credibilty.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Allow me to point out a major problem with your theory. How did those slimy pond scum creatures, manage to grow legs and wings over millions of years. Let me guess, they laid on the water shore for millions of years waiting for their legs and wings to develop, without being eaten alive while they lay there helplessly for millions of years.

Surely you can see how absurd and insulting to the intelligence such a theory is.

And surely you can see how absurd and insulting it is to other people when someone (maybe like yourself) Strawmans the other's viewpoint.

Here's a suggestion about how to get through to those other people (i.e. persons like me, Evil-Lootion-Ist): Actually fully engage their sources and then gripe about it all!

 

[sfs]

Allow me to point out a major problem with your theory. How did those slimy pond scum creatures, manage to grow legs and wings over millions of years. Let me guess, they laid on the water shore for millions of years waiting for their legs and wings to develop, without being eaten alive while they lay there helplessly for millions of years.

Surely you can see how absurd and insulting to the intelligence such a theory is.

But I know everything about evolution, I can sum it up in a word "Bunkum".

So in one post you claim to know everything about evolution while in another post you demonstrate that you don't know the first thing about it. Are you trying to make Christians look like willfully ignorant nutcases?

You didn't answer my question, though: are you the only Christian who is infallible or are we all?

 

[BCP1928]

And surely you can see how absurd and insulting it is to other people when someone (maybe like yourself) Strawmans the other's viewpoint.

Here's a suggestion about how to get through to those other people (i.e. persons like me, Evil-Lootion-Ist): Actually fully engage their sources and then gripe about it all!

It's a real blast from the past. I don't think I have come across that "dragging around a half-formed appendage waiting for the next mutation" meme for a couple of decades.

 

[Dan1988]

We can see how stunningly ignorant
you are.
We notice how this doesnt match your fantasy of infallibility.
We see how absurd your beliefs
about evolution are.
We are aware you just make up the
things you say.
And artempt to insult our intelligence with a claim
that youve actually described our thinking.

Adds up to zero credibilty.

I'm not interested in private opinions, I'm only interested in documented facts and truth. I'm afraid that the theory of evolution doesn't pass the fact checks. Sure it's a nice theory, but I can't accept it until it has been proven to be accurate and true. So I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for the experts to reach a consensus.

Don't forget, thousands of scientists have rejected the theory since it's inception. So it's not just the bakers and the butchers rejecting it, we have a big number of qualified deniers on our side.

 

[Dan1988]

And surely you can see how absurd and insulting it is to other people when someone (maybe like yourself) Strawmans the other's viewpoint.

Here's a suggestion about how to get through to those other people (i.e. persons like me, Evil-Lootion-Ist): Actually fully engage their sources and then gripe about it all!

I can't convince non believers to believe any more than you can convince me of your faith in Darwin. I choose to believe in God and others are free to believe in Darwin if they wish. But the two are diametrically opposed to each other, Darwin's theory contradicts what God has said.

 

[Dan1988]

So in one post you claim to know everything about evolution while in another post you demonstrate that you don't know the first thing about it. Are you trying to make Christians look like willfully ignorant nutcases?

You didn't answer my question, though: are you the only Christian who is infallible or are we all?

Christians are different to everyone else, we're not autonomous free thinkers like non Christians. Our thoughts are captive in Christ, that means we're not free to dive into mysticism and human philosophy. Those are abominations in Gods sight and human wisdom and reasoning are also abominations.

God didn't create His elect to be tossed around like boats without sails on a stormy sea. God gives His elect the gift of discernment, which keeps us from falling prey to the Devil's lies and schemes. God is not impressed with self appointed wise guys, so He hides the truth from them and gives it to the uneducated humble people.

 

[maxamir]

Here are two links that are ideal for doubters of evolution to either ignore or find fault with:

Biology:List of transitional fossils - HandWiki

handwiki.org

Transitional fossil - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Others may find some thoughts or examples on the topic that are new to you.

it's time to grew up Orphi, fairy tales are only for kids.

44 Reasons Why Evolution Is Just A Fairy Tale For Adults

 

[maxamir]

So in one post you claim to know everything about evolution while in another post you demonstrate that you don't know the first thing about it. Are you trying to make Christians look like willfully ignorant nutcases?

You didn't answer my question, though: are you the only Christian who is infallible or are we all?

those who are beholden to the lie of evolution do not yet know the God of Holy Scripture who created time, space and matter out of nothing and has given man all the senses necessary to know Him including that which is common to all.

 

[Estrid]

I'm not interested in private opinions, I'm only interested in documented facts and truth. I'm afraid that the theory of evolution doesn't pass the fact checks. Sure it's a nice theory, but I can't accept it until it has been proven to be accurate and true. So I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for the experts to reach a consensus.

Don't forget, thousands of scientists have rejected the theory since it's inception. So it's not just the bakers and the butchers rejecting it, we have a big number of qualified deniers on our side.

You made up the "thousands", but never mind.
You like facts ?
Not one of your rejections has even one fact to
disprove evolution. Neither do you.