The following is an excellent study from the Mid-Acts Perspective on the actual sense of Matthew 24:34's "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass til all these things be fulfilled."
In the process, it proves the heresy that is Preterism.
I'm not a preterist I'm a futurist so sorry if you got the wrong idea...
Note that the parallel verses of Matthew 24:34, Mark 13:30, and Luke 21:32 can be the only instance where "this generation" doesn't mean the temporal one alive at Jesus' first coming. For your argument is like the argument of full preterism, which claims that the "elements" in 2 Peter 3:10,12 can't be physical because all the other verses in the Bible where the original Greek word "stoicheion" (G4747) is used, refer to non-physical elements. The truth is that the "elements" in 2 Peter 3:10,12 can be the only place in the Bible where "stoicheion" is used to refer to physical elements, just as, for example, Revelation 6:6 can be (and in fact is) the only place in the Bible where the Greek word "choinix" (G5518) is used at all.
Similarly, Matthew 24:34, Mark 13:30, and Luke 21:32 can be the only instance where "this generation" is used to refer to a future generation, which would see "all these things", including Jesus' (never fulfilled) 2nd coming.
Note that just as the highly detailed tribulation events of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 find no historical fulfillment, so the tribulation events of Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 find no historical fulfillment. For example, Luke 21:24 refers to the same future treading down of Jerusalem by the Gentiles as Revelation 11:2b, during the Antichrist's future, literal 42-month worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-18), the details of which time period are shown from 4 different angles in Revelation chapters 11 to 14 (Revelation 11:2b-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5,7, Revelation 14:9-13). The myriad details of these chapters have never been fulfilled. Similarly, Jesus' 2nd coming and the church's gathering together (rapture) in Matthew 24:30-31 (2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17) have never been fulfilled, but must occur "immediately after" the future tribulation of Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, and Revelation chapters 6 to 18 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:2 to 20:6).
Also, the end of the 2nd temple building (also called Herod's temple building) in 70 AD didn't fulfill Matthew 24:2. For the stones of the 2nd temple's Wailing Wall (also called the Western Wall) still stand today one on top of the other, just as they did when Jesus spoke that prophecy. Matthew 24:2 included the Wailing Wall, for Matthew 24:2 wasn't referring only to the single, 2nd temple building which stood in the center of the Temple Mount and which contained the holy place and the most holy place, but was referring to "all these things", all the plural "buildings"/structures/oikodome (G3619) of the entire 2nd temple complex (Matthew 24:1). Indeed, Matthew 24:2 could even have been spoken just to the north and west of the Wailing Wall. For it was spoken just after Jesus had departed from the temple complex (Matthew 24:1), and one of the main temple complex exits (called Wilson's Arch and bridge by archaeologists) was just to the north of the Wailing Wall, and at the same level as the top of the Temple Mount (see the temple-complex map-insert in the December, 2008 issue of National Geographic magazine).
Also, in Matthew 24:2, the "here" can include not just the entire 2nd temple complex, but every structure throughout Jerusalem. For the similar statement in Luke 19:44 applied to the whole city (Luke 19:41-44). Matthew 24:2 and Luke 19:44 could be fulfilled at the very end of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, right before and at Jesus' 2nd coming (Zechariah 14:2-21, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).
While Jesus was originally speaking with the apostles in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21, in his mind all believers of all times are one (John 17:20-21, Ephesians 4:4-5). So the "ye" in Matthew 24 doesn't require that Matthew 24 was fulfilled in the lifetime of the apostles. The "ye" will see "all these things" (Matthew 24:33-34), including the (never fulfilled) 2nd coming (Matthew 24:30-34). The "ye" must watch (stay awake, spiritually) for the 2nd coming (Matthew 24:42,44).
gospelfer said in post 26:
Some things are also spiritualized: so, for instance, the tribulation is taken to be a spiritual dismissal of Israel, thereby supposedly earning it assignment to the words: "For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short."
The reason this has to be spiritualized, of course is because it is so far from being anywhere near true as a historical fact. There are things in latter day prophecy which fit Christ's words (the latter day judgements in the prophets and Revelation), but prophecy categorically states these all involve many nations.
Some people have made objections to individual assertions about the contents of Matt 24; in many cases an attempt is made to minimize the force of Christ's words. So, for instance, Christ says
"And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. "
The meaning of this is then minimized to align with Paul's utterances which say, in effect, "the Gospel is being preached to whole world". It's not literally true, of course, but it is true in the sense the Gospel is being preached everywhere Christians go, and the scope of this area is expanding quickly. Because prophetic utterances are sometimes exaggerated is impossible to disprove this assertion. However, we can see that Christ's is certainly more pointed (the whole world), and Paul's very possibly colloquial to his circumstance.
.Another example of diminishment is the "falling away" which is assigned to the fact that some believers leave the early church. Well, some believers are always leaving any movement, and if this is all Christ means, it means nothing at all. But he speaks as if it is something prophetic and noticeable on a historical scale. Whatever departures existed in the first century are not noticeable historically; instead, what we actually notice is an exponentially exploding Gospel.
Finally, no critic has dealt with Moses' threefold structure of history (the central anchor my post). It has been entirely ignored. Moses presents a history containing a period of "blessing", followed by "curse" (subjection, then long suffering, homeless exile), and finally a subsequent "return". Moses states that these epochs (or "generations") are certain to happen. And this idea of the Jew's eventual return is everywhere in prophecy -- it is a major theme. As far as I can tell the preterist simply pretends it is not there -- despite the fact Paul issues a rather stern warning on this matter.
But Paul is just as pointed: "Every Creature under heaven", "the whole world" "All Nations". etc... Paul's Scope IS Christ's Scope.
They are both speaking of the same thing, the only difference is tense, Christ speaks of it in Future tense, Paul in past tense.
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Which Continues to explode exponentially today....It's not in retreat as you would have us believe my friend. There are more people reached by the gospel today than there were yesterday, and there will be more tomorrow...
But it's not "everywhere in Prophesy".
All the prophecies about the dispersion and return of the Jews to their own land were fulfilled at the end the Babylonian Captivity in 457 B.C., not 1948 when the State of Israel was formed.
"In all your dwelling places the cities shall be laid waste, and the high places desolate . . . ye shall be scattered among the countries . . . among the nations whither they shall be carried captives . . . all the house of Israel shall remove and go into captivity . . . I will scatter them among the nations" (Ezekiel ch. 612).
This was the Diaspora. . . . And now the re-gathering of the Jews to their own land 70 years later:
"For thus saith the Lord, that after 70 years be accomplished at Babylon I will visit you . . . and I will turn away your captivity, and I will gather you from all the nations . . . and I will bring you again into the place whence I caused you to be carried away captive" (Jeremiah. 29: 10-14).
Not one single verse in the Old Testament, or New, written after the Babylonian Captivity, mentions any other dispersion and re-gathering of the Jews. Not even ONE.
The Bible says they WOULD be dispersed into all nations,
The Bible then confirms they DID get dispersed into all nations.
The Bible says they would be gathered back FROM all nations.
The Bible then confirms they WERE gathered back from All nations.
Prophetic fulfillment has been realized. No further fulfillment of this prophesy is necessary or biblically warranted.
The following is an excellent study from the Mid-Acts Perspective on the actual sense of Matthew 24:34's "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass til all these things be fulfilled."
In the process, it proves the heresy that is Preterism.
http:// https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dH0Jf7Dd1Wc
Try addressing the issue the speaker on that video as addressing - the issue of subjunctive mood.
All you did was repeat your same old fusion of passages that do not go together, further fusing them with external sources you think relate your understandings.
why should anyone accept the preterist position when there are two other ones which don't require that we discard other parts of prophecy?
They do require we discard the God Given time frame for their fulfillment however.
Shortly must be discarded and replaced with long time.
Near must be discarded and replaced with Far
About to take place must be discarded and replaced with thousands of years away
In a very, very little while must be discarded and replaced with in a very, very long time
Will not delay must be discarded and replaced with will be delayed
When you see must be discarded and replaced with when someone else 2000 years from now sees
I will come as a thief to you must be discarded and replaced with I will come as a thief to someone else thousands of years after you are dead
etc, etc, etc.....
Don't kid yourself. Futurism has a cornucopia of it's own "must ignore certain scriptures" challenges...
They do require we discard the God Given time frame for their fulfillment however. /....Don't kid yourself. Futurism has a cornucopia of it's own "must ignore certain scriptures" challenges...
The problem here is that God's sense of soon appears to be different from our own sense of soon. There is ample evidence that God's "soon" can be many hundreds of years:
Isaiah 56:
Thus says the LORD:
Keep justice, and do righteousness,
for soon my salvation will come,
and my righteousness be revealed.
Deut 4:
I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that you will soon utterly perish from the land that you are going over the Jordan to possess. You will not live long in it, but will be utterly destroyed.
etc ...
So, the "soonness" of the end of the age can be accomadated to God's timeline.
As you can see, the problems with the preterist position are fatal, whereas the futurist's problems are not. The "soonness" of the end of the age is easily dealt with because we can see that God's "soon" is sometimes very, very long from our perspective.
Thu
truthfully I describe it as a glass half empty or full dilemma.
Futurist mindset seems to look at the aspects of prophecies/events not appearing fulfilled or questionable as to their fulfillment leaving one to have to see that something did not add up right since
all prophecy comes to pass 100% leaving no doubts.
They go with the aspect of presuming that while specifics were asked, were those exact questions answered to their mindset, many times when Jesus was asked a question He responded with a question to see where their heart of the questioner was and then proceeded to answer (obviously He already knew, but proceeded to ask anyways). Did our Lord tell them of the 70 events or did he tell them more of the prophecy regarding his final return? The point is what was our Lord answering and addressing, understanding He knew the future and exactly what to say for our teaching and understanding.
For if it were only 70ad those huge stones that stand today are conflicting with what scripture clearly says.
I do agree it's perplexing as to usages of increments of time we typically understand as in proximity of our mortal scope, though I see it for the greater good to word it as such. Though throughout the bible those exact time frame issues show their head up when God is ready for them, and oddly enough typically not as quick as one would mortally expect.
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