Is being Wiccan moral?

Many people were accused of witchcraft in Salem, but only three were executed. It was immediately after the first round of hangings that the people realized how sick they were being and the whole witch thing stopped as quickly as it had arose.

Most of those accused of "witchery" confessed and were pardoned. Some of them were tortured before their confessions, but they returned to the community after their confessions.

The Puritans all kept journals and it's very well documented.

In England and Holland, there were many more hangings and other various tortures, but that's a different story.

lambslove said:

Many people were accused of witchcraft in Salem, but only three were executed. It was immediately after the first round of hangings that the people realized how sick they were being and the whole witch thing stopped as quickly as it had arose.

Most of those accused of "witchery" confessed and were pardoned. Some of them were tortured before their confessions, but they returned to the community after their confessions.

The Puritans all kept journals and it's very well documented.

In England and Holland, there were many more hangings and other various tortures, but that's a different story.

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I will re-examine my research. Perhaps I am mistaken. I will get back with you with further details.

Alright, I have researched the figures I originally came to, I couldn't find all the information I had acquired previously, some of it was hands-on at the library, and I'm at work right now, limited to the internet. But:

Bishop, Briget: hanged at Salem, New England on 10 June, 1692
Good, Sarah: executed at Salem, New England, on 19 July, 1692
How, Elizabeth: executed at Salem, New England, on 19 July, 1692
Martin, Susannah: executed at Salem, New England, on 19 July, 1692
Nurse, Rebecca: executed at Salem, New England, on 19 July, 1692
Wildes, Sarah: executed at Salem, New England, on 19 July, 1692
Jacobs, George: executed at Salem, New England, on 19 August, 1692
Burroughs, George: executed at Salem, New England, on 19 August, 1692
Carrier, Martha: executed at Salem, New England, on 19 August, 1692
Corey, Giles: pressed to death at Salem, New England, on 19 September, 1692
Willard, John: executed at Salem, New England, on 19 August, 1692
Procter, John: executed at Salem, New England, on 19 August, 1692
Wardwell, Samuel: executed at Salem, New England, on 22 September, 1692
Corey, Martha: executed at Salem, New England, on 22 September, 1692
Scott, Margaret: executed at Salem, New England, on 22 September, 1692
Parker, Alice: executed at Salem, New England, on 22 September, 1692
Parker, Mary: executed at Salem, New England, on 22 September, 1692
Pudeator, Anne: executed at Salem, New England, on 22 September, 1692
Reed, Wilmot: executed at Salem, New England, on 22 September, 1692
Easty, Mary: executed at Salem, New England, on 22 September, 1692

that's a lot more than 3. And those are only the Salem executions. The list is very comprehensive, up to date, up to the year 2003. And only includes verifiable deaths of persons known by name, not those with no records, although there are further lists where the victim was not known by name, but the death itself is verifiable. 801 to date. This site is the source of those names and dates.

But no where near 500 either.

SquareC said:

He did not say these people were killed during the 19th century, he said the numbers quoted originated during the 19th century, by a woman named Matilda Gage. These numbers were then quoted by others, further distorting the truth. I personally believe from my own research, that the numbers around 400 people killed are understated, and the numbers around 400,000 people and above killed are exaggerated. I think the true numbers are somewhere in the middle ground. But in regards to the Salem episodes, I have seen records from the time confirming the deaths of over 50 people, some strangers and some residents, so the number 3 is a little low I think. I have my doubts on the grain mold theory, but I wasn't there and historical evidence has both supporting and contradicting aspects on that subject. I make no judgements, I doubt we will ever know the actual truth.

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From what we know, the center of witch-burning lay in Central (Germany, Austria, and Switzerland) Europe. It's difficult to establish the degree and extent of witch burnings in Eastern Europe. Your correct in that no one knows the total number of victims. If we compile all known records of people killed I believe we would arrive at a number around 100,000. I believe however that the records we have available are only the tip of the iceburg and that far more people were killed. Records missing or destroyed, lynchings that were never recorded.

Names Unknown Auther estimates 20,000-500,000

Names Known Auther has 801 names


"The chronicler of Treves reported that in the year 1586, the entire female population of two villages was wiped out by the inquisitors, except for only two women left alive. A hundred and thirty-three persons were burned in a single day at Quedlinburg in 1589, out of a town of 12,000. Henri Boguet said Germany in 1590 was "almost entirely occupied with building fires (for witches); and Switzerland has been compelled to wipe out many of her villages on their account. Travelers in Lorraine may see thousands and thousands of the stakes to which witches are bound." In 1524, one thousand witches died at Como. Strasbourg burned five thousand in a period of 20 years. The Senate of Savoy condemned 800 witches at one time. Param stated that over thirty thousand were executed in the 15th century. Nicholas Remy said he personally sentenced 800 witches in 15 years and in one year alone forced sixteen witches to suicide. A bishop of Bamberg claimed 600 witches in 10 years; a bishop of Nancy, 800 in 16 years; a bishop of Wurtzburg, 1900 in 5 years. Five hundred were executed within three months at Geneva and 400 in a single day at Toulouse. The city of Traves burned 7,000 witches. The Lutheran prelate Benedict Carpzov, who claimed to have read the Bible 53 times, sentenced 20,000 devil-worshippers. Even relatively permissive England killed 30,000 witches between 1542 and 1736. The slaughter went on throughout Christian Europe for nearly five centuries.

A directive published in 1599 said judges were bound under pain of mortal sin to execute witches; anyone who objected to the death sentence was suspected of complicity. On one occasion, magistrates of Brescia objected to burning a number of condemned witches without having examined records of their trials. But the inquisitors kept their records sequestered, and the pope declared the magistrates' reluctance a scandal to the faith. "He ordered the excommunication of the magistrates if within six days they did not execute the convicts" (Walker 443).

Referance

Originally posted by lambslove:
Oh, and the Inquisition wasn't a witch hunt, it was a hunt for Christian heretics, people who wouldn't join the catholic church. It had nothing to do with witches.

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The inquisition was initiated by Pope Gregory IX instituted the papal inquisition in 1231 for the apprehension and trial of heretics. The medieval Inquisition functioned only in a limited way in northern Europe. It was employed most in the south of France and in northern Italy. When you talk about most of the individuals being simply tortured and released I believe you are referring to this earliest stage of the Inquisition when the inquisitors still followed the local rules of trail and evidence.

Spanish Inquisition, authorized by Pope Sixtus IV in 1478. Pope Sixtus in an attempt to control The Spanish courts and nobility. It failed and Sixtus agreed to recognize the independence of the Spanish Inquisition. Following this the Spanish Inquisition focused mainly on the forced conversion of Jews and Muslims to Christianity. This institution survived to the beginning of the 19th century, and was permanently suppressed by a decree on July 15, 1834.

Pope Innocent VIII (how is that for an ironic name?) in 1484 broadened the Inquisition with his Papal Bull.
http://www.angelfire.com/realm2/amethystbt/burningpapal.html

“ It has recently come to our ears, not without great pain to us, that in some parts of upper Germany, as well as in the provinces, cities, territories, regions, and dioceses of Mainz, Koln, Trier, Salzburg, and Breman, many persons of both sexes, heedless of their own salvation and forsaking the catholic faith, give themselves to devils male and female, and by their incantations, charms and conjurings, and by other abominable superstitions and sortileges, offences, crimes, and misdeeds, ruin and cause to perish the offspring of women, the foal of animals, the products of the earth, the grapes of vines, and the fruits of trees, as well a men and women, cattle and flocks and herds and animals of every kind, and flocks, herds, and animals, and hinder men from begetting and women from conceiving, and prevent all consummation of marriage; that, moreover, they deny with sacrilegious lips the faith they received in holy baptism; and that, at the instigation of the enemy of mankind, they do not fear to commit and perpetrate many other abominable offences and crimes, at the risk of their own souls, to the insult of the divine majesty and to the pernicious example and scandal of multitudes.”

It is here that Innocent turned the Inquisition into a witch hunt.

Two years later THE guidebook for inquisitors the Malleus Maleficarum (the Witch’s Hammer) was introduced. The first publication of the text took place in 1486 and was written by two Inquisitors Heinrich Kramer and Jacob Spenger. The text served as an aid in order to seek out witches. Once the witches were found and put to trial the text also laid out how torture to confession, and then death should be carried out. Under the Malleus Maleficarum all women fit the description of a witch, old, young, woman of low sex drive, women with high sex drive, midwifes, house wives, and healers. No matter what the women lived her life she was suspect to witchcraft.

Kramer and Spenger tell us that the three reasons why women are more apt to participate in witchcraft are: One women are more fragile so they are easily seduced by the devil. Secondly women tend to have slippery tongues and talk without thinking so they spread the word of Satan. Thirdly women are just innately evil and wrathful. The Old Testament is used to back up their arguments specifically the story of Adam and Eve. Eve was the first woman to be seduced by Satan who took on the form of serpent. Once Eve was convinced to eat the apple from the forbidden tree, she seduced Adam to do her bidding and retrieve said fruit.

At the time of the writing of The Malleus Maleficarum, there were many within the Catholic Church who doubted the existence of witches and largely regarded such belief as mere superstition. With the Papal blessing it became Christina Dogma to believe in the existence and the power of witches. TO deny the power of witches or to question their existence was heresy.

The book is still available and one of the most twisted and evil things I have ever seen. You can read it at: http://www.malleusmaleficarum.org/
Despite the fact that it was written by Catholic Inquisitors the Catholic Church eventually rejected its use. It was however used extensively by protestant inquisitors.


Most of the arrests, tortures and executions of accused witches took place not in the middle ages but after the renaissance in the so called age of enlightenment.

The inquisition continues to existed 1908 it was renamed to “Holy Office. In 1965 Paul VI reorganized the Holy Office and renames it “Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith”

Ben johnson said:

That would indeed seem to violate the rule on "promoting other religions"; anyone with such an interest has their own access to internet search engines. I would hope and pray that whoever searches, he or she would search with a challenge, to the CREATOR, that the truth will be made manifest. Being Christian, I am convicted that whoever SEEKS God will FIND Him, when they search with all their heart (Jer29:11-14). So, AS a Christian, I need not worry about someone being "led wrong". Wiccans claim to be "truly seeking after the Truth" --- if this is correct, then if the Christian God IS reality, anyone who truly searches will FIND Him, and be found BY Him...

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AMEN! Seek God, the creator of the universe, with a pure heart, believe, surrender yourself, and strive to serve Him! I must congratulate you Ben, you are one of few very open-minded, non-judgmental moderators who seems to be after Jesus' own heart. For example, if you reach God more easily through something like Wicca (which I know little about), say, the way He expresses Himself through his creation in Earth's nature (it seems to me like trying to learn about an artist's mind by studying his art), or if you find Him in the peaceful silence of meditation, or in the beauty of the creation of loving, dedicated followers (gilded cathedrals and icons), then that is where you find Him. We have to be careful not to worship creation, but realize that all we have to reach God are manifestations in this world, and that all comes from Him directly or indirectly*. If you're not entirely convinced that God has masculine reproductive equipment, I seriously doubt He cares. Jesus was all about pursuing God with a pure heart and believing with a childlike faith, striving to be holy like Him. We all know that God sees into the heart - and Jesus' words seem to suggest that it's the thought that counts. Anyone who truly seeks God will find Him - at the very least, our Knowledge of Good and Evil will guide us to Him if we seek purity in it.
Thank you, Moderator, for letting God out of the box we too often put Him in.




*(here's to the Wiccans in this - I would say that nature is at least as good a revelation as the Bible into the psyche of God, albeit in a different way (studying an artist's mind by his art, as opposed to his writing - both are valid for people gifted in either area), as nature was a direct creation of God, --and if you believe much of the Bible, like I am inclined toward-- corrupted by the Fall. The Bible, on the other hand, is at least indirect by one degree in being written by men, another degree in being compiled by men, and possibly another in being altered. The Catholic church had exclusive control over biblical texts for centuries, and they didn't like a lot of what was in it. DID they ACTUALLY change it? Who knows? Granted, God could have intervened to guide the whole process perfectly, but maybe He didn't choose to. Anyway, let's not forget that the essence of God is expressed to a degree even where Wiccans seek it.)

When did you guys get Wiccans and the Biblical witches confused?

I had never thought there was any association apart from the name. Unless you consider all attempts at magicks witchcraft, whether they call it that or not, I don't think you can find many Wiccans who would profess to following the Devil's orders.

There is no inherent built-in, eternal morality for any animal, including mankind. So, whatever; anyways, some of the tenets of wiccan are closer to Humanistic/Secular truth than christianity, etc. There is no empirical evidence of any dieties, so-called angels, spirits, eternal beings, afterlife, whatever - so don't worry so much about this thing some humans call 'morality.'

Arikay said:

However, I do know that part of the belief is that harm or bad intentions (especially with magic) will come back apon the doer 3 fold. (probably been mentioned before).
Seems rather interesting, and something that IMHO needs to be in christianity.

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It does.

Gal 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

Job 4:8 Even as I have seen, they that plow iniquity, and sow wickedness, reap the same.

Pro 11:18 The wicked worketh a deceitful work: but to him that soweth righteousness [shall be] a sure reward.

The problem with being a wican is that it is based on deciet. The truth is in Jesus and no other way. Wica gets its teachings and powers straight from hell and Satan and his imps have people caught up in this religion very decieved. Satan is the God of the wiccans.

JEREMY O'ROURKE said:

The problem with being a wican is that it is based on deciet. The truth is in Jesus and no other way. Wica gets its teachings and powers straight from hell and Satan and his imps have people caught up in this religion very decieved. Satan is the God of the wiccans.

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That's a really... interesting opinion. Especially the bit about the "God of the Wiccans" being an entity in which they don't actually believe. Does it occur to you that Wiccans, or members of any other religion, could turn around and say that Christianity gets its "teachings and powers" from the evil entity of their choice, and have exactly as much rational validity in doing so as you do? I just don't understand the way some people "think."

Too Curious, If a person does not worship Jesus as the one true God they are followers of Satan. Jesus is the only way. There is not one other way outside of him alone.

It seems to me that conservative Christians are too blinded by their own ignorance. The truth will bite them in the *** someday, so let's just hope they won't lose their faith in God in the process.

If I didn't how blatantly false conservative Christianity was, I'd say that Satan already has a hold on them.

EvoluEarth, Mock all you want we all will have to stand before Jesus someday. I have the truth in me.

You can continue to believe that Jeremy, as I will continue to believe that you are wrong about my and other non-Christians' beliefs.

jeremy, too bad you have no evidence to even prove what you said is the truth. Basically, I can say the same thing about Satan being my savior and God deceiving us all into thinking he created us. Sounds funny? So does your beliefs.

Face it, we're both going to hell, but I'll be nice enough to bbq some tofu for you.

I agree with you, Jeremy. Stay strong brother.

define your definition of moral? what is moral in wiccan? what is moral in christianity? Moral is a strong word to use to ask your question.