don't worry, he doesn't understand...

deg · Aug 10, 2003

Don't worry about this post, the guy writing doesn't understand, he's new to the Lord.

I'm hoping there are some experienced Christians reading this, and it isn't simply newbies like myself, but I would invite all to respond with their feelings on my little rant.

There must be more of Him. There must be. I look at myself, and my 19 years of unfettered, unadulterated sin, and wonder how I possibly could have lived without His magnificent touch. Only 9 short months ago, the Lord, through an act that has forever reformed the man I once was, brought me to Himself. I did not decide one day that I would live for Him. I did not stop the steady barrage of intensely destructive drugs, I didn't stop my habitual smoking, and I sure didn't stop myself from having spree upon spree of dangerous promiscuity for His sake. He took them from me. I did nothing to deserve the grace and power that he showed me. I DID NOTHING. Within seven days, drugs fell away, the smoking faded, the pleasure in sex dimmed, the nipple ring was out, and on the seventh day of complete transformation, a flawless gift of salvation was given to me under the heavy weight of tear-filled repentance. My body has never been so physically shaken, and neither has my spirit been so fully crushed and re-built. I may never experience anything like it ever again, in the entirety of my walk with Him, but I hope that it's glory will be surpassed as I move onto another.

There must be more of Him. He has taken everything but Himself from the picture, and now I'm learning to walk in that which He gave me freely. The unquenchable desire to know and utilize more of His Life has me searching for as much as I can grasp of His infinite Glory. Baptism in the Holy Spirit, the Still Small Voice, the Spirit of Prophecy, ALL 9 GIFTS, I want everything. I will never be satisfied until I know and understand the Kingdom which lies near, in the midst of, and within: Jesus Himself has placed a massive hunger within me, so I am trying to find the River and Fountain of which He speaks. I go to church to find Him, but it never seems to lead me closer, only farther away. My life and spirit seem so sapped as soon as I leave worship, as I sit down to a humdrum message that lacks both the anointing and direction of the Spirit that I have only touched a few times. I have tried many churches, but in all but one (which I can't attend regularly due to distance) I have found the dying embers of a once (perhaps) ALIVE and on FIRE church. Even the Pentecostal congregations (while they use the gifts) lack the anointing that SHOULD accompany their use. The kingdom is in power not in word! I am so sick with the lackadaisical and complacent attitude that permeates North American churchianity. Going to church leaves me feeling wasted, not edified! I'm sorry for the rant, but I can only imagine that I am feeling something like a reflection of the Lord's grieved heart. Where are the apostolic signs? WHERE ARE THE SIGNS THAT THE LORD SAYS WILL ACCOMPANY THOSE THAT BELIEVE? Where are those who are assailing the Kingdom of Heaven for the power to assail the ever increasing kingdom of satan? There must be more of Him!

Here than is my true question to those who have experience with the Holy Spirit, and its leading. I desire the Lord's Will performed completely through my life, regardless of cost. He has my life, my future job, my future wife, my computer, my day, my wallet, my clothing, my very being. I want Him to use it for His own good pleasure, so I wish to find the True Voice that will guide me in all I do. In any given circumstance or crossroads, we must make one of two (or more) choices. In many cases, both choices could be supported by scripture to focus on a certain facet of a healthy Christian lifestyle. "Why did you hit him?" "Because I wished to show him that his conduct is not appropriate, and to correct him. I chastise those that I love." OR "Why didn't you hit him?" "I wished to exercise my still limited grasp of forgiveness and patience. I also wanted to reflect the Lord's incredibly overwhelming mercy." You can see the holes in this example, but there are other conflicts that need direction where only one path is how the Lord would react. Mercy vs punishment, patience vs action, stepping out in faith vs holding thy peace, boundless generosity vs wise fiscal planning....Here then is my question...How is it that you know the clear desire of the Lord in any given situation? I have several times known EXACTLY what the Will of the Lord is by miraculous interaction, but without that direct interaction, I am left with gentle internal leading, which often conflicts with itself. Please, respond, any and all, with their feelings and their experiences with the Holy Ghost...nothing is vicarious with Him, I know, but I would like to draw from other's experience to compare to my own.

May His Blessing and Hand lay heavy upon you all, that we might know what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect will of God.

psycmajor · Aug 10, 2003

Wow, quite a testimony. Glad to hear it

. Reminds me of the story of the prodigal son. You are a new man.

In my experience, you can know what God's will is by reading the Bible, and listening to that "still small voice." It's kind of like a thought in your head. Like, "What is it that you want, or would have me do, God?" And what seems like a mere thought that comes to my mind, is what I believe is His voice. To know if it's really His voice, compare that "thought" to what you've read in the Bible. Think of it as your instruction manual.

I would encourage you to talk to the pastors and elders of the church, and tell them your concern. You don't necessarily have to tell them all that you said above; maybe just what you're looking for in a church.

Anyway, what specifically are you looking for in a church?

BTW, I don't think hitting people (especially other adults) is a good way to correct them. How would Jesus handle the situation? He never hit anyone.

kimber1 · Aug 11, 2003

awesome testimony! adn so encouraging to see someone so onfire for the Lord!!! i agree with psychmajor! talk with a pastor or someone you feel confortable with about what you're searching for. as far as knowing God's will, i don't think we ever 100% of the time will know beyond a shadow of a doubt b/c there's too much free will involved. and sometimes our own selfishness of wanting to do things our way comes into play. but pray, pray, pray and ask for God's guidance!!

ZiSunka · Aug 11, 2003

Great testimony!

How do Christians discern the voice of God?

Listen for the still,small voice, but also realize that he does most of his talking to us through the Bible, His written word. Do what he says to do in the Bible and you won't go wrong.

Study the word as much as you can. Read commentaries, get involved with Bible study, listen to Christian teaching programs on the radio.

Also, listen to other mature Christians who have a lot of experience walking with the Lord. Find a church full of Bible-Believers and disciple yourself there.

And don't forget to pray for God to reveal himself and his specific will for your life. He will do it. You'll be amazed what he does when you sincerely look for him.

And finally, use this key to figuring out his will for you:

"An ability and an opportunity to do a work for God should be considered a call to do it." That is, do whatever God puts in your path for you to do. See an old lady in the grocery parking lot struggling to get her groceries in her car? God is calling you to help her! Meet a man at the post office who's in a grumpy mood? Pray for him!

Do whatever ordinary things he sets out for you, and soon he will trust you with greater, more difficult things.

abbygirlforever · Aug 11, 2003

What an awesome testimony you've given!

Revelation 3:14-22 (NIV)

To the Church in Laodicea

14"To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:
These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God's creation. 15I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16So, because you are lukewarm--neither hot nor cold--I am about to spit you out of my mouth. (emphasis added) 17You say, 'I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.' But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. 18I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see. 19Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest, and repent. 20Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me. 21To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne. 22He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."

I firmly believe that the church today is like the church in Laodicea - lukewarm. The Holy Spirit does not move in most churches, and they are dying because of it. I know what you mean about wanting more. I am also searching hard for more of God. I think we are in the last days, when there will be a lot of falling away from God. I have seen people who are truly filled with the Spirit, and it is an awesome thing to have. If you can't find a church that is not filled with the Spirit, then don't attend. Make some friends who are also Christian and have your own Bible study instead. Spend a lot of time reading the bible and just talking to the Father. He promises that those who seek Him will find Him, and those who ask shall be answered (Matthew 7:7). Those who are truly in Christ will always hunger and thirst for more, never getting enough. Read the Beattitudes and try to see how many apply to you. The key is to always seek, keep praying and asking and reading the Word. He will answer you.

Papist · Aug 11, 2003

deg said:
..How is it that you know the clear desire of the Lord in any given situation? I have several times known EXACTLY what the Will of the Lord is by miraculous interaction, but without that direct interaction, I am left with gentle internal leading, which often conflicts with itself. Please, respond, any and all, with their feelings and their experiences with the Holy Ghost...nothing is vicarious with Him, I know, but I would like to draw from other's experience to compare to my own.

That is amazing! My eyes filled up when I read your testimony! Stories like yours reinforce my own faith no end.

Guidance?

Think of the words in the Lord's Prayer: THY WILL BE DONE. Pray that at all times, whenever you make a decision. (We Catholics have a practice called the Rosary in which we pray the Lord's prayer and other prayers repeatedly.)

The Lord's Prayer is the special prayer that Jesus taught us to pray. It encapsulates God's will for all.

Pray it often, and reflect on each line. For example, "Give us today our daily bread." -- think how you may be the one God uses to provide someone else with their daily bread. You could put some time in at a homeless shelter or something.

Read Matthew 25 and visit the sick, clothe the naked, feed the hungry. When you do it for a human being, you are doing it for Christ himself!

Remember also that everyone you meet is made in the image of God and is loved as much as you are. Remember that fact, however horrible they may seem to you, and act accordingly.

Remember Christ's summary of the law: Love the Lord your God and your neighbour as yourself. (Who is my neighbour? Remember the story of the good Samaritan.)

Read what Paul says about love in 1 Cor 13.

As for your fellow churchgoers -- don't judge them. You don't know their struggles.

I praise God for making you, saving you, and making you a powerful witness!

Papist · Aug 11, 2003

Another thing -- as a Catholic, I would encourage you to see what your local Catholic churches have to offer. We have a long and deep tradition of spiritual practices that God uses to draw us closer to Himself. There are both dramatic and quiet parts to your spiritual growth as a Christian ... your conversion was the beginning. You are now on the path of growth. Bible reading is one way of nurturing your relationship with God and Catholicism offers many others: the eucharist (bread and wine); the rosary (essentially meditating on important events in the life of Jesus); personal confession to a priest, which allows for special guidance on particular sins that you are prone to ... and more.

Papist · Aug 11, 2003

deg said:
Here than is my true question to those who have experience with the Holy Spirit, and its leading. I desire the Lord's Will performed completely through my life, regardless of cost. He has my life, my future job, my future wife, my computer, my day, my wallet, my clothing, my very being. I want Him to use it for His own good pleasure, so I wish to find the True Voice that will guide me in all I do.

Remember, even your mistakes are not enough to divert the will of God! I have known God work through atheists -- how much more will God work through you, who desire it so much?! Pray and act -- and God will work through you. Genuine mistakes happen -- just avoid deliberate sin and if you can't, confess that sin.

Papist · Aug 11, 2003

psycmajor said:
BTW, I don't think hitting people (especially other adults) is a good way to correct them. How would Jesus handle the situation? He never hit anyone.

You're likely to get corrected back!!! :lol:

deg · Aug 12, 2003

Firstly, I would like to thank you all for your support and messages; they are both encouraging and uplifting. I hope and pray that you are all instilled with hunger unquenchable for His Word.

Papist: the Lords prayer is wonderful and evoking, and I have never really applied to my life as you've suggested. Sure, I've prayed it many a time as I'm sure we all have, but I guess I've never really viewed it in such an overwhelmingly powerful light. As for volunteer work, it is a true blessing and a real work of God, and something I shall have to consider and pray about. Catholic eh? Why Catholicism instead of Protestantism, what piqued your interest about rosary beads? I don't really trust non biblical traditions. I'm not judging you, or the Catholic faith, but as for me, I think just simple prayer will work better. When you start putting a requirement on material things for any sort of prayer, I think you've missed the point. But each to their own, right? May God bless you richly, and I again thank you.

AbbyGirl: You've said some things that really hit home. I have had to avoid the church sometimes, it really fatigues me. Personal prayer and reading have been a major blessing with me, but nothing quite compares to a body of believers acting under the full anointing of the Holy Spirit. The measures of praise and worship that are reached in such environments are unfathomable, and I truly miss it. Have you ever experienced "the filling" generally accepted by Pentecostal believers? Do believe in the baptism of the Spirit as an event separate from salvation? I pray that He will give you it if not!

LambsLove: Your message hit hard. I don't know why, but it seemed to have an authority and peace about it. What denomination are you, if I may be so bold as to ask?

May the Lord bless you all in manifold ways and measures.

abbygirlforever · Aug 12, 2003

I'm not sure what you mean by "the filling." If you are referring to being filled by the Holy Spirit, then I have felt it, but nothing permanent. I think true Christians will find themselves baptised in the Holy Spirit. It is a sign that they belong to God. I think there are Christians that have been baptised in the Spirit but don't know it because the Spirit has not manifested Himself to them yet. At this point in my walk I am still seeking the Holy Spirit. I have felt the Spirit move before, but I know that there is a more permanent dwelling that can happen with believers, and that is what I want. I pray that you find what you are looking for as well. Always remember to keep your eyes on God and not this world, to live in the spirit and not the flesh, and to always seek to do His will in your life.

Jude 24-25 (NIV)
24To him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy-- 25to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.

Papist · Aug 12, 2003

deg said:
Papist: the Lords prayer is wonderful and evoking, and I have never really applied to my life as you've suggested. Sure, I've prayed it many a time as I'm sure we all have, but I guess I've never really viewed it in such an overwhelmingly powerful light. As for volunteer work, it is a true blessing and a real work of God, and something I shall have to consider and pray about. Catholic eh? Why Catholicism instead of Protestantism, what piqued your interest about rosary beads? I don't really trust non biblical traditions. I'm not judging you, or the Catholic faith, but as for me, I think just simple prayer will work better. When you start putting a requirement on material things for any sort of prayer, I think you've missed the point. But each to their own, right? May God bless you richly, and I again thank you.

lol! You don't need the beads to pray the rosary! It's just that it's a structured form of prayer, and the beads help you with the structure. There's nothing magical about the beads themselves. There's a place for free prayer, and a place for structured, disciplined prayer. The rosary prayers can force you to pray about things that maybe you are neglecting, if you are just praying about what you are feeling or thinking about at the time. The rosary is simply a way of bringing structure to your prayer time. It is one way among many, and you may find others.

(There are also Mary prayers in there -- you may feel very uneasy about those. Don't worry. They are optional. In any case, they are not prayers to Mary, but they are asking her to pray for you, just like you ask a friend to pray for you. We believe that we can ask people in heaven to pray for us but that is optional.)

But having said that, I have no wish to add unnecessary complications to your new-found faith in Christ. I will simply say that, in the future, further down the path, you may find your faith tested and challenged, you may find yourself cooling off, you may even find that God seems to be absent. God does sometimes withdraw from you those feelings of closeness, and this is, paradoxically, to further your spiritual growth. God withdraws those feelings so that you can learn to worship him without necessarily getting immediate spiritual 'feedback'. It's like learning to love your spouse for her own sake, and not just for what she gives you. You can prepare yourself for such times of spiritual dry-ness by developing habits of structured prayer that can carry you through the desert.

May God bless you richly.

I rejoice in what God has done for you! May you be richly used by him to bring God's blessing to others!

Papist · Aug 12, 2003

kimber1 said:
awesome testimony! adn so encouraging to see someone so onfire for the Lord!!! i agree with psychmajor! talk with a pastor or someone you feel confortable with about what you're searching for. as far as knowing God's will, i don't think we ever 100% of the time will know beyond a shadow of a doubt b/c there's too much free will involved. and sometimes our own selfishness of wanting to do things our way comes into play. but pray, pray, pray and ask for God's guidance!!

I agree with that. Always seek the guidance of wise people who have been round the spiritual block a few times -- but also remember that they too are fallible!

Also, remember, God is greater than your selfishness, and God is good at making the best of a bad situation, when you do mess up.

deg · Aug 13, 2003

Abbygirl: AMEN! I don't know what else to say!! You've hit the nail on the head, as far as
I'm concerned! Many are baptized, completely immersed in His Holy Spirit, without ever allowing
the Spirit the fullness of utterance, while others, I believe, have claimed this baptism for themselves without ever receiving it, speaking out of their own spirit. Tongues as the evidence of this baptism is not what I want, I desire that permanent indwelling. John 14:23; That abode sounds pretty permanent, and Jesus speaks about it before His death as the promise of the Father.

Joel speaks about it, this promise, and I believe this gift was only received in its complete fullness because of Jesus' redemptive work, and what happened 50 days later. But yes, I agree there are shades and grades; we are all at different stages of a big journey; I just feel the need for all of it!

"I have felt the Spirit move before, but I know that there is a more permanent dwelling that can happen with believers, and that is what I want."

You and I seem to be at very similar stages.

"Always remember to keep your eyes on God and not this world, to live in the spirit and not the flesh, and to always seek to do His will in your life."

AMEN!!! How long have you been a Christian? You speak with the knowledge and spirit of someone I know, and hold in the highest regards.

Papist: Interesting (and convincing) defense for the rosary system. I think I'll stick to a checklist on my mirror...I try not to fall into any denomination, or the proposed system. They all emphasize certain aspects of a Christian walk that are wonderful (Pentecostals: Holy Spirit, Presbyterian and Catholic: structure and unity, Baptist: good solid foundational moral code, etc etc ) but they often over emphasize certain aspects too. I also feel that prayer to anyone but the Almighty or His Son isn't something to be encouraged, we are commanded to avoid all people
who speak to the dead. I'm not trying to judge your practices! Please don't take offense! I'm just trying to conform what is available to me to what I've read, to ensure that my walk is as pure as I can humanly make it.

"Always seek the guidance of wise people who have been round the spiritual block a few times --
but also remember that they too are fallible!"

Amen and Amen! Often their guidance is to look to Him, or read...conceptually, it's perfect advice, but it doesn't provide the "where the rubber meets the road" answer that I guess no one really has. I suppose the realm of the Spirit, or at least people's conception of it, is as unique as each of us.

May the Lord pour His spirit upon you in ways untold, and His blessing rest upon all that your hand finds to do.

abbygirlforever · Aug 13, 2003

How long have I been a Christian? That's not an easy question to answer. I have known that there was a God all my life, and that there was a person named Jesus who died for me. I lived what most would consider a Christian life: going to church, sunday school, VBS, doing nice things for people, etc. However, in the past year I did a complete about face and walked away from God. I knew in my heart that I could never truly leave God, that He would always be there, but I was going through a very difficult time in my life (still am) and I couldn't deal with it. I did some very, very stupid things trying to handle a problem too big for me to tackle. Eventually I told God that He would have to step in and help me because I was only hurting myself. I crawled out of the pit I had dug myself and made my way back to His loving arms. I am 100% convinced that if He had not been watching over me I would not be alive today. It was a very difficult lesson for me to learn, but I am glad that I did learn it. Ever since then I've known God in a way I never thought possible. Before He seemed to be some far-off figure sitting in Heaven watching me and taking notes. Now I know that He is a personal God who loves me and is there for me no matter what. I call Him Father, and I am his daughter. So to answer your question, I would say I've only been a true Christian for less than a year. I had to fall and fall hard in order to be truly saved.

the_annex · Aug 31, 2003

I want to say how inspiring this is. No matter how many times I see this happen, it still touches me and makes me strive to be BETTER! Thank you for pointing a direction that I thought could never exist for a person like me. Christ has definitely used you to reach me. . .

cyberwing · Sep 9, 2003

Everyone of you has blessed me as I read this thread!

To deg: The Holy Spirit is there if you have asked Jesus to send His presence! Sometimes as we seek, He will answer by directing us to scripture, sometimes He will answer by showing us something or sometimes just answering us directly within our spirits as we get still and listen for His still, small voice in our spirit.
I recall one time He answered an accusation against me by a brother in the church. My brother wrongly accused me of making a graven image when I painted a face on Jesus in one of my paintings. I prayed and sought Him on this. My young son came to me a short time later and proudly held up a drawing of 'Mommy' a stick figure with curly red hair. (I'm blonde and have long straight hair!) Anyway, I took the picture and told my little son it was beautiful and how sweet of him to do it for me. As I started to lay the picture down, the Holy Spirit spoke to my spirit. "You see? Just as you saw this picture was done with love, so I see your paintings of Me. It doesn't matter if it looks like Me or not, you are my child and you have done it with love. This is not what your brother wrongly accused you of. You are simply my child as this child I gave you is yours." I began to weep with the beauty of what He revealed to me!
The Holy Spirit is definitely moving among us. Keep your eyes on Jesus and stay in His Word. Please remember there are many 'churches' where Satan has a seat but Jesus is told to wait outside unless they need something from HIM! I agree with you, it's hard to find a church that wants Jesus more than tradition. It's why I did the painting, "The Bride In Chains". It's a picture of the modern day church. However, I believe there are true believers hidden in every denomination and some without a denomination all together. His Church exists everywhere! We are those that deeply love Jesus and have come to know Him intimately. Listen to these words of wisdom from all these wonderful men and women of God that have posted here, Read the Bible and take Him at His Word. Let every mans teaching be compared back to the Word. If it don't fit, toss it in your 'spiritual trash can' for God's Word is the ultimate source.
Thank you for blessing me so, all of you! :hug:

~DJ

Ken · Sep 11, 2003

this thread has been a blessing to me as well!!

deg, re Prayer.... an acronym that I was taught some time ago, in order to avoid the "I" disease that can sometimes come in prayers.... always me, me, me... is the word ACTS: A=Adoration, simply start by adoring God for who He is.... C=Confession of sins..... T=Thanksgiving for all He has already done in your life and in the life of others... and finally S=Supplication, asking God to meet your needs as you pray for yourself and the needs of others.... anyway, its just a tool, maybe it will be of use, maybe not, its kinda of a take it or leave thing..

On your inner relationship, and hearing from God, let me recommend an excellent book for you, its by Dallas Willard and it is called Hearing God: Developing a Conversational Relationship With God , he has a great site as well, its at http://www.dwillard.org/

You may also find a great amount of help re the inner life by reading some of the Puritans. They were simply giants of faith, and our level of commitment etc. today pales in comparison to them.. and thankfully many of their works are available online..

See http://www.reformedreader.org/pandr/puritandefence.htm for a good intro, then dive in!!

http://www.puritansermons.com/toc.htm

http://www.gty.org/~phil/puritans.htm

http://users.lewiston.com/ardenh/puritans.html

http://www.graceonlinelibrary.org/puritans/

there is literally a lifetime of reading at just these sites.. and you will surely be enriched by your journey..

blessings

don't worry, he doesn't understand...

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