Lutheran views on the Nature of Christ

The Liturgist said:

@ViaCrucis @MarkRohfrietsch @Ain't Zwinglian since I’m rather bored by the current denominational coverage in Denomination Specific Theology and do not know my way around the Book of Concord could you inform me as to what these are? i expect they will be very similar to Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox views on the subject but I would be particularly interested in Christological discussion from the early Lutherans and those Lutheran theologians who confessional Lutherans of the Evangelical Catholic persuasion regard as of interest.

Also given how much the Lutheran church looks like the faith of St. Cyril the Great of Alexandria I’m curious if the early Lutherans actually talked about him that much or if rather this Cyrillianism is a happy result of very careful scriptural study by Luther, Melancthon et al.

For my part I haven’t seen any denomination as committed to the idea of communicatio idiomatum as yours except for the Oriental Orthodox (my own Eastern Orthodox denomination suffered in the late fifth and sixth century from the influence of crypto-Nestorians like Ibas), and like the Oriental Orthodox your denomination was also falsely accused of Monophysitism by members of what are now the Reformed churches if i recall.

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The Liturgist said:

If you were to post a thread on this or another subject from a perspective you are well versed in (if I recall you were inclined towards a more ah Calvinistic approach?) I would also be 100% there for it.

I am also going to be making a post on comparative Orthodox-Anglican lliturgiology due to my considerable expertise in both and also because I think a thread on denomination-specific liturgics would be nice for the DST subforum.

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The Liturgist said:

To be clear I’m not expecting to find any differences, but something like a Lutheran father talking about communicatio idiomatum or how the title Theotokos is appropriate for the Blessed Virgin Mary would really perk me up.

Unlike with Pneumatology where we could potentially have a very polite row over the filioque, as far as Christology is concerned Confessional Lutherans such as yourself cannot be easily differentiated from Eastern Christians.

But perhaps there is a danger in this - Pietism first appeared and also became particularly unpleasant in those areas of Poland under German control where you had Lutheran, Reformed, Eastern Orthodox, Eastern Catholic and Latin Rite Catholic churches and given the high degree of Christological similarity and the pointlessness of the degree of hostility between these groups that existed in the 17th century it created a breeding ground for the error of Pietism which de-emphasizes the importance of doctrine, which paradoxically created alienation rather than resolving it by causing a split between Lutherans who were focused on doctrine and nice-nice Pietists, many of whom then joined new expressly Pietist denominations such as the various Free Churches, or denominations which had become heavily under Pietist direction, such as the Moravians due to the influence of the Pietist Count Nicoulaus Zinzendorf (if I recall this Pietism became excessive and is ultimately what stopped Wesley from converting to Moravianism despite having worked with them and having his “Aldersgate Exprerience” in a Moravian chapel in London (which I believe was not technically non-conforming since it existed to cater to Moravian emigres as opposed to actual non-conforming chapels, but in any event I should look up to find out how it was that Wesley as an Anglican priest was allowed to serve in Moravian churches in what is now the United States and to attend Moravian chapels in the UK without being defrocked).

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None is Greater or Less Than Another: Against the Eternal Subordination of the Son​

A brief student journal article​

None is Greater or Less Than Another: Against the Eternal Subordination of the Son

A brief student journal article

lutheranchronicles.substack.com

MarkRohfrietsch said:

In answer to the first part of your post here is the first part of Article III of the Augsburg Confession. The sainted Philip Melanchthon got this out of the way early in Article III of the Augsburg Confession:

Article III. Of the Son of God.
1 Also they teach that the Word, that is, the Son of God, did assume the human nature in 2 the womb of the blessed Virgin Mary, so that there are two natures, the divine and the human, inseparably enjoined in one Person, one Christ, true God and true man, who was born of the Virgin Mary, truly suffered, was crucified, dead, and 3 buried, that He might reconcile the Father unto us, and be a sacrifice, not only for original guilt, but also for all actual sins of men. (Source: The Augsburg Confession )

It was noted in the Defence or Apology of the Augsburg Confession, where the Lutherans defended the concerns that were raised by the Catholic Church, that they were in full agreement concerning Art. III:

Article III. Of Christ.
The Third Article the adversaries approve, in which we confess that there are in Christ two natures, namely, a human nature, assumed by the Word into the unity of His person, and that the same Christ suffered and died to reconcile the Father to us; and that He was raised again to reign, and to justify and sanctify believers, etc., according to the Apostles' Creed and the Nicene Creed. (Source: Article III. Of Christ. )

For those who want a deeper exploration, Father Martin's "Commentary on the Magnificat" certainly expands upon the Biblical doctrines and dogmas regarding the Blessed Virgin, Mother of God: https://www.checkluther.com/wp-content/uploads/1521-The-Magnificat-Translated-and-Explained.pdf

BTW, sound Christology has always been the best remedy for Pietism and Legalism.

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reddogs said:

A question, what do you see he is pointing to here.."this canticle is sung in all the churches daily at vespers, and to a particular and appropriate setting that distinguishes it from the other chants. f237 May the tender Mother of God herself procure for me the spirit of wisdom, profitably and thoroughly to expound this song of hers, so that your Grace as well as we all may draw therefrom wholesome knowledge and a praiseworthy life, and thus come to chant and sing this Magnificat eternally in heaven."

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BTW, sound Christology has always been the best remedy for Pietism and Legalism.

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