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An atheist faces death

throughfierytrial

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I wouldn't describe him that way, "cold" "callous heart". Just the opposite. I think his world view has widened beyond the narrow Biblically defined God he was brought up believing in and wounded by. In spite of that he has managed to grow into a kind, compassionate and caring person. I do not feel a need to project my theology and beliefs on to him. It is enough to journey with him, be present to him, mediate Christ's presence and love as best I can. I am aware some may see that as a failure on my part, not explicit enough with Bible verses and "You need to come to Jesus".

I see God as bigger than that. we all ultimately have to let go, even of our own understandings, and rest in the truth in the Big mystery. He has had enough evangelism, and it brought him to atheism, or at least agnosticism. I actually think his faith is very deep. It does not depend on some formula or rational cognitive articles of faith. If his peace is authentic and not just a mask, and that is not my judgment to make, then he has found an existential foundation to face the end of his time on earth. What happens beyond that is a matter of belief for all of us. And we often argue about all that. I simply try to help him discover what is most sacred to him.
Cold callous heart I was referring to is that type of heart toward God and God’s doctrine. ( Which is not some man-made doctrine as which you outline.)
See what Jest refers to as lukewarm and cold in Revelation and the end result for, destiny of, such people…even though they are believers. You are in need as well.

To justify your reply to me you add to my thoughts as though I said there’s a formula, a theology, to be preached to someone on his deathbed. We both know that is absurd and I’m quite sure you understood from my reply that was not an approach I was describing… you are as I said simply justifying your inaction.

Because one has not responded to millions of attempts to convert does not mean anything about a remaining time to convert. You sound as though you may have a different relationship with this atheist friend…perhaps a respected close friend. He may say to himself that this upright Christian approves of my denial of Christianity.

Enough said however. Prays going up for you both!
 
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Akita Suggagaki

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Cold callous heart I was referring to is that type of heart toward God and God’s doctrine. ( Which is not some man-made doctrine as which you outline.)
See what Jest refers to as lukewarm and cold in Revelation and the end result for, destiny of, such people…even though they are believers. You are in need as well.

To justify your reply to me you add to my thoughts as though I said there’s a formula, a theology, to be preached to someone on his deathbed. We both know that is absurd and I’m quite sure you understood from my reply that was not an approach I was describing… you are as I said simply justifying your inaction.

Because one has not responded to millions of attempts to convert does not mean anything about a remaining time to convert. You sound as though you may have a different relationship with this atheist friend…perhaps a respected close friend. He may say to himself that this upright Christian approves of my denial of Christianity.

Enough said however. Prays going up for you both!
He has been an acquaintance. I appreciate the prayer.
 
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Larniavc

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Even free gifts have to be received.

Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”
Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”
Yes and?
 
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Bradskii

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My first post in this thread, in no way stated what I think this person personally needs.
Then correct me if I'm wrong. From your posts I think it's somewhat obvious that you think that he needs to accept Jesus as his saviour and he should do that before he dies.
 
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Bradskii

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Those are conversation openers. An unbeliever or ex believer has often built up a stubborn ego against God and yet has some deep private doubts and fears that he may actually be wrong-headed. Maybe however he has a latent seed of faith which needs to be watered.
I find this quite frustrating. What you believe and why you believe it is obviously very important to you. I would Imagine that you've thought long and hard about it. It can't have been a decision made lightly. So people should respect that. I certainly do. But why isn't that respect reciprocated?

Why would you effectively tell a dying person 'Look, the decisions you have come to, what you believe, which is obviously very important to you, and I imagine that you would have thought long and hard about it....well, I'm telling you that you're wrong'.

If everyone took that attitude then literally everyone would be spending their time telling anyone who didn't believe exactly as they did that 'Hey, you're wrong'.
 
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d taylor

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Then correct me if I'm wrong. From your posts I think it's somewhat obvious that you think that he needs to accept Jesus as his saviour and he should do that before he dies.
-

How do you equate can with need.
 
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throughfierytrial

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I find this quite frustrating. What you believe and why you believe it is obviously very important to you. I would Imagine that you've thought long and hard about it. It can't have been a decision made lightly. So people should respect that. I certainly do. But why isn't that respect reciprocated?

Why would you effectively tell a dying person 'Look, the decisions you have come to, what you believe, which is obviously very important to you, and I imagine that you would have thought long and hard about it....well, I'm telling you that you're wrong'.

If everyone took that attitude then literally everyone would be spending their time telling anyone who didn't believe exactly as they did that 'Hey, you're wrong'.
Because they are wrong…dangerously wrong… for eternity… why would any Christian care any less? Who should want that anyone perish? We were all born into this world destined for eternal damnation but God in His mercy called the saved through the Gospel. I approach the dying quite differently than the living. Deathbed is not the time for thorough education in Christianity. I cannot save Anyone; it is only by God’s will using us as His ambassadors.

Jesus says in John… He who believes in me has crossed over from death to life. It is a simple message which require simple measures. The least one should do is a cursory check on the man’s spiritual welfare.

Let me ask you… why are you opposed to trying to offer the saving Gospel? Often what is behind this attitude the following passage addresses…
I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believes…
Also many are ashamed of rejection which is really a tool of the devil.
Another pertinent passage…
If anyone is ashamed of my words I will be ashamed of him on that Day.

Examine yourself and your own motives before obstructing the message of love.
Deathbed conversions are real… just as the opposite is quite true.
 
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1Tonne

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I think he might have a faith in the ultimate goodness of reality or something?
So, he thinks he is a good person because he feels he has lived a good life? The Bible says that "many will confess their own goodness".
No one can get to heaven by being good. There are none that are good. No, not even one. And God will judge every man and give to them what is owed and since we have broken God's law, we deserve death.
He was raised in Jesus.
The real question is not did he go to church or was he raised in Jesus, but "did he have a relationship with Jesus". And obviously he did not have a real relationship with Jesus because if you know someone personally, then it is impossible to say, "I do not believe that He is real". If you know someone, then you know that they are real.
So, my guess is that even though he went to church when he was young, he never had a real relationship with the saviour.
I am very concerned for both of you. First for the man espousing atheism and then for you as someone called to officiate upon his death yet not being moved to implore him to reconsider the Gospel. I feel it is imperative you speak truth to him and if he won’t listen then to gracefully bow out of the officiating. Or do SOMETHING out of love and respect for the poor wayward soul.
If sinners be damned, at least let them leap to Hell over our dead bodies. And if they perish, let them perish with our arms wrapped about their knees, imploring them to stay. If Hell must be filled, let it be filled in the teeth of our exertions, and let not one go unwarned and unprayed for. Charles Spurgeon
Good grief, man. He's 85. I'd suggest that he's been around long enough to have come to terms with his beliefs and to expect some appreciation of his final wishes and not have someone implore him to do anything at all. If he's been a good man and there is a mercifull God then he'll be accepted into whatever heaven there might be.
No one can get to heaven by being good. There are none that are good. No, not even one. And God will judge every man and give to them what is owed and since we have broken God's law, we deserve death.
The image you have made in your head of God is a God that is not just. Your God allows murders to get away with murder and adulaters to get away with adultery. And Jesus said that if you hate someone then you are a murderer and that if you look with lust, then you commit adultery. We have all done this and God will pay us all for what we have done. This is why we need the sacrifice of Jesus. He died in our place for our sins.
In reality, you have broken the second commandment by making an image of God that does not exist. You are in big trouble.
Unless their faith is an accident of birth. I was raised by solidly Christian parents in a solidly Christian society. I was Christian by default. If my parents and the society had been Muslim then guess what religion I would have been as I grew up.
Just going to church does not make you a Christian. Did you know Jesus personally?
He'll exhibit it by treating the man, and his beliefs, with respect and not use his impending death as an opportunity to question those beliefs.
Every life is infinitely valuable and so we should share the Gospel. To not share the Gospel would be to say that he is not worth it and therefore that would be being disrespectful to him.
Respect would mean to value his life enough to share the Gospel. Disrespect would be to keep the Gospel to ourselves.
You said you could choose to believe. I've asked you a question about it.

You can answer it and prove me wrong or refuse to do so and prove me right.
We can choose to believe, or we can choose to love our sin. The bible says that we can all see the genius of God within creation and so no one is without excuse on the day of judgement. It is silly to say that a building fell together by itself and it would be silly to say that a book or a painting made itself. Likewise, it would be silly to say that creation made itself. We can all see the evidence and we know the truth.
So, deep down, every person knows that there had to be a creator. But not all will want to acknowledge Him. If they did, then that would mean that they are also accountable to that creator. And many people love their sin a lot, adultery, porn, greed, and therefore will they choose to suppress the truth of Him.
For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man, and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things. Romans 1:20-23
Neither does the gentleman in question need anyone else's. And considering the number of years he's been here then a sudden death bed conversion is not likely. So is he going to decide that taking the possibility of eternal life is a good option if he's spent a lifetime being convinced that it doesn't exist?
I talk to many elderly people on the street and many of them change their thinking from unbelief to belief.
Only a month ago I spoke to an elderly gentleman who was a professed atheist and by the end of the conversation he said that he believed that God had brought him to me so that I could speak with him. He did not make a profession of faith, but he did say that the conversation we had is going to make him think a lot.
So, time on earth, how old a person is, is not more powerful that the Gospel. The Gospel has the power to change hearts of stone into hearts of flesh.
As I said, he comes from an evangelical upbringing. He has heard of Jesus and the Gospel. For him it was mostly judgment and condemnation, I guess.
My guess is that this was not preached enough. Christians and pastors will often talk about the loving aspects of God and forget that the unbeliever is under condemnation and that one day they will be judged.

"Why fear the Lord? Once you realize the wickedness of your own heart, you'll see the necessity to hold on to the fear of the Lord.
Because my heart is like a compass, as a compass points towards north, my heart goes towards sin. And it's a daily battle. And I don't know what I would do if I didn't fear God." Ray Comfort.
I would Imagine that you've thought long and hard about it.
I don't think that someone has to think long and hard about it. It is simple. A book, a painting and a building all need a maker and so does creation. We can see order, design and even information within creation. These are all signs of intelligence.
The big question really is, which God is it? This is where most people struggle and think long and hard. To answer this, I simply look at how the bible can foretell the future like no other book can. It is amazing.
For instance, imagine if I wrote down over 300 prophecies about future events, and every single one of them came true with perfect accuracy in one person? You would recognise something extraordinary was happening. No human can predict the future with such precision.
That’s exactly what we see in the Bible. The Old Testament contains over 300 prophecies that were fulfilled in the life of Jesus Christ. These include details such as His birth in Bethlehem, how He entered Jerusalem on a donkey, His betrayal for 30 pieces of silver, His nail-pierced hands and most importantly, it foretells that He would die for the sins of the world. No other book, not even the Quran, has this level of prophetic accuracy. The Bible stands alone as the divinely inspired Word of God. So, we need to take note of what it says. And so, the God of the Bible is the one we should trust.
I find this quite frustrating. What you believe and why you believe it is obviously very important to you. I would Imagine that you've thought long and hard about it. It can't have been a decision made lightly. So people should respect that. I certainly do. But why isn't that respect reciprocated?
Because it would be disrespectful to allow someone to die without showing them the way of salvation. That would show that we think that they are not worthy of knowing eternal life; that we think little of them.
If we truly believe in Heaven, Hell, judgment, and Christ’s sacrifice, how can we stay silent? Imagine a blind person walking toward a cliff. If you saw them, you would yell and warn them. To say nothing would be unloving and a blatant disregard for the life that God has made. It would show that we did not care for this person. That would be utterly disrespectful.
Why would you effectively tell a dying person 'Look, the decisions you have come to, what you believe, which is obviously very important to you, and I imagine that you would have thought long and hard about it....well, I'm telling you that you're wrong'.
I talk to a lot of people about this stuff, and many say that they don't really think about it. And I believe them. They do not want to think about it because if they did, then they would realise that there is a creator and then they would be accountable to Him. But people love their sin and so it is easier to not think about it.
 
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Larniavc

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And to receive God's free gift, God states believe in Jesus for Eternal Life.
How can it be free when it requires an action before the gift is given? His gift is conditional on accepting both yourself of being guilty of a metaphysical crime beyond your control (but within the control of Jesus) and that he is the only way to avoid going to Hell because that is where Jesus has decided you’ll go otherwise.

Doesn’t seem too much like a free gift.
 
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Bradskii

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Because they are wrong…dangerously wrong… for eternity… why would any Christian care any less?
Then if a Muslim, a Jew, a Hindu, a Jainist and an atheist are waiting outside your bedroom where you are living out your last few hours then you'd have no objection to each of them taking turns to try to convince you that you have made a terrible mistake. But it's not too late to change. I think their view is best summed up thus: They honestly feel that you 'might have some deep private doubts and fears that you may actually be wrong-headed. Maybe however you have a latent seed of faith which needs to be watered'.

Now is that quite acceptable for you to hold to that view and somehow try to convince someone to convert on their death bed, but not them (and if you say 'It is because I'm right and they are all wrong', then that high pitched noise you might hear will be my scream of frustration)?
Let me ask you… why are you opposed to trying to offer the saving Gospel?
I've no problem with it at all. If the person wishes to hear you offer it, then go for it. If someone from any religion approaches me and asks me if they can tell me what they believe and why I should believe it as well, then if I'm in the mood then it might be an interesting discussion. I'm an equal opportunity atheist. I'm quite prepared to listen to anyone. Maybe the unfortunate gentleman in the OP is as well. But you may have to wait outside his bedroom with the Jew, the Jainist and the atheist while he first discusses Islam with his neighbour.
 
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Bradskii

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So, he thinks he is a good person because he feels he has lived a good life? No one can get to heaven by being good.
No. Apparently you have to believe in God. Just being good doesn't count enough.
In reality, you have broken the second commandment by making an image of God that does not exist. You are in big trouble.
I cannot make an image of something which I do not believe exists. The only images (plural) that I have of God are the ones given to me by people who believe He exists. Ranging from a Sunday School version looking like a Michelangelo painting, through a deity willing to drown an entire planet and order the massacre of women and children to an all loving God that only wants the best for me and the rest of humanity. Plus umpteen other versions garnered from very many years talking to people like you on forums like this.
We can choose to believe...
Oh no. Please. Not this again.

No you cannot choose to believe. What you can do is accept evidence or reject it (it doesn't have to be true). Belief or disbelief will be the result of that decision.

Which leads back to your first comment and the conclusion I'm drawing from it. Which is that you must have a belief in God to be granted eternal life. And as you can't simply say 'Well, OK. Then I'll just believe in Him' then you'll need to present evidence for His existence. And this is just an assumption, but as the gentleman in the OP is in his eighties, it's my guess that he's had plenty of time to have evidence presented to him. And as he is an atheist we can safely assume that he has rejected that evidence. Therefore, as a consequence of that, he does not believe.

So where does that leave you? Trying to present new evidence to a guy on his deathbed that he hasn't heard before and have him say 'Gee. I never heard that one before. Y'know, I'll accept that and will now accept all the other evidence I have already rejected (don't ask me how, I just will) and gosh...I've discovered I actually believe'.

Really?
 
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Akita Suggagaki

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guilty of a metaphysical crime beyond your control
That is a disturbing thought. For many, the underlying Christian belief is that we come into the world as condemned sinners through no fault of our own.
 
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throughfierytrial

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So, he thinks he is a good person because he feels he has lived a good life? The Bible says that "many will confess their own goodness".
No one can get to heaven by being good. There are none that are good. No, not even one. And God will judge every man and give to them what is owed and since we have broken God's law, we deserve death.

The real question is not did he go to church or was he raised in Jesus, but "did he have a relationship with Jesus". And obviously he did not have a real relationship with Jesus because if you know someone personally, then it is impossible to say, "I do not believe that He is real". If you know someone, then you know that they are real.
So, my guess is that even though he went to church when he was young, he never had a real relationship with the saviour.

If sinners be damned, at least let them leap to Hell over our dead bodies. And if they perish, let them perish with our arms wrapped about their knees, imploring them to stay. If Hell must be filled, let it be filled in the teeth of our exertions, and let not one go unwarned and unprayed for. Charles Spurgeon

No one can get to heaven by being good. There are none that are good. No, not even one. And God will judge every man and give to them what is owed and since we have broken God's law, we deserve death.
The image you have made in your head of God is a God that is not just. Your God allows murders to get away with murder and adulaters to get away with adultery. And Jesus said that if you hate someone then you are a murderer and that if you look with lust, then you commit adultery. We have all done this and God will pay us all for what we have done. This is why we need the sacrifice of Jesus. He died in our place for our sins.
In reality, you have broken the second commandment by making an image of God that does not exist. You are in big trouble.

Just going to church does not make you a Christian. Did you know Jesus personally?

Every life is infinitely valuable and so we should share the Gospel. To not share the Gospel would be to say that he is not worth it and therefore that would be being disrespectful to him.
Respect would mean to value his life enough to share the Gospel. Disrespect would be to keep the Gospel to ourselves.

We can choose to believe, or we can choose to love our sin. The bible says that we can all see the genius of God within creation and so no one is without excuse on the day of judgement. It is silly to say that a building fell together by itself and it would be silly to say that a book or a painting made itself. Likewise, it would be silly to say that creation made itself. We can all see the evidence and we know the truth.
So, deep down, every person knows that there had to be a creator. But not all will want to acknowledge Him. If they did, then that would mean that they are also accountable to that creator. And many people love their sin a lot, adultery, porn, greed, and therefore will they choose to suppress the truth of Him.
For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man, and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things. Romans 1:20-23

I talk to many elderly people on the street and many of them change their thinking from unbelief to belief.
Only a month ago I spoke to an elderly gentleman who was a professed atheist and by the end of the conversation he said that he believed that God had brought him to me so that I could speak with him. He did not make a profession of faith, but he did say that the conversation we had is going to make him think a lot.
So, time on earth, how old a person is, is not more powerful that the Gospel. The Gospel has the power to change hearts of stone into hearts of flesh.

My guess is that this was not preached enough. Christians and pastors will often talk about the loving aspects of God and forget that the unbeliever is under condemnation and that one day they will be judged.

"Why fear the Lord? Once you realize the wickedness of your own heart, you'll see the necessity to hold on to the fear of the Lord.
Because my heart is like a compass, as a compass points towards north, my heart goes towards sin. And it's a daily battle. And I don't know what I would do if I didn't fear God." Ray Comfort.

I don't think that someone has to think long and hard about it. It is simple. A book, a painting and a building all need a maker and so does creation. We can see order, design and even information within creation. These are all signs of intelligence.
The big question really is, which God is it? This is where most people struggle and think long and hard. To answer this, I simply look at how the bible can foretell the future like no other book can. It is amazing.
For instance, imagine if I wrote down over 300 prophecies about future events, and every single one of them came true with perfect accuracy in one person? You would recognise something extraordinary was happening. No human can predict the future with such precision.
That’s exactly what we see in the Bible. The Old Testament contains over 300 prophecies that were fulfilled in the life of Jesus Christ. These include details such as His birth in Bethlehem, how He entered Jerusalem on a donkey, His betrayal for 30 pieces of silver, His nail-pierced hands and most importantly, it foretells that He would die for the sins of the world. No other book, not even the Quran, has this level of prophetic accuracy. The Bible stands alone as the divinely inspired Word of God. So, we need to take note of what it says. And so, the God of the Bible is the one we should trust.

Because it would be disrespectful to allow someone to die without showing them the way of salvation. That would show that we think that they are not worthy of knowing eternal life; that we think little of them.
If we truly believe in Heaven, Hell, judgment, and Christ’s sacrifice, how can we stay silent? Imagine a blind person walking toward a cliff. If you saw them, you would yell and warn them. To say nothing would be unloving and a blatant disregard for the life that God has made. It would show that we did not care for this person. That would be utterly disrespectful.

I talk to a lot of people about this stuff, and many say that they don't really think about it. And I believe them. They do not want to think about it because if they did, then they would realise that there is a creator and then they would be accountable to Him. But people love their sin and so it is easier to not think about it.
An awesome, and I believe, inspired reply. Thank you!
Remember also Romans 1:19-20 they are without excuse.
Another point to witnessing the Gospel to the wayward and unbelievers is that although God knows the chosen, we do not… therefore we must regard everyone as a potential believer and help them.
Romans 2:14-16 is applicable to seemingly “ good people” righteous in their own eyes as well as to the world.
And loving and greeting people of this world is not a sign of Christian love either… see Matthew 5:47.
 
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throughfierytrial

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Then if a Muslim, a Jew, a Hindu, a Jainist and an atheist are waiting outside your bedroom where you are living out your last few hours then you'd have no objection to each of them taking turns to try to convince you that you have made a terrible mistake. But it's not too late to change. I think their view is best summed up thus: They honestly feel that you 'might have some deep private doubts and fears that you may actually be wrong-headed. Maybe however you have a latent seed of faith which needs to be watered'.

Now is that quite acceptable for you to hold to that view and somehow try to convince someone to convert on their death bed, but not them (and if you say 'It is because I'm right and they are all wrong', then that high pitched noise you might hear will be my scream of frustration)?

I've no problem with it at all. If the person wishes to hear you offer it, then go for it. If someone from any religion approaches me and asks me if they can tell me what they believe and why I should believe it as well, then if I'm in the mood then it might be an interesting discussion. I'm an equal opportunity atheist. I'm quite prepared to listen to anyone. Maybe the unfortunate gentleman in the OP is as well. But you may have to wait outside his bedroom with the Jew, the Jainist and the atheist while he first discusses Islam with his neighbour.
You have a twisty version of what I posted to you and you know it full well. I said why wouldn’t a Christian be moved to at least do a cursory check of the atheist spiritual health. No one said anything near forcing the man to listen, the OP is his “friend “. He later says he was just an acquaintance. But, a celebration of life officiating acquaintance? Some “acquaintance”! He has Christian responsibilities in this situation… before God, as Ezekiel declares.

No, I would not allow anyone, friendly or not, to proselytize me on my deathbed… I have longed to have prayers of friends, Bible passages and hymns sung around me on my deathbed if I have a deathbed per say.

Yes, I know I am right and all other beliefs are false. ITone relates how Christians know this very well in his response above. I concur.
 
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throughfierytrial

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That is a disturbing thought. For many, the underlying Christian belief is that we come into the world as condemned sinners through no fault of our own.
Nope! False, all our fault
 
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Bradskii

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You have a twisty version of what I posted to you and you know it full well. I said why wouldn’t a Christian be moved to at least do a cursory check of the atheist spiritual health.
If it's a 'cursory check' then I can't see anything wrong with that in itself.

'You OK? I mean, like spiritually?'
'Yeah, I'm good'

End of discussion. But I'm really not getting that minimalist vibe from a lot of posts. It comes across as a duty to save the guy, not to ask if everything is OK.
He has Christian responsibilities in this situation… before God, as Ezekiel declares.
And if that amounts to 'You OK? I mean, like spiritually?' then his responsibility has been fullfilled.
No, I would not allow anyone, friendly or not, to proselytize me on my deathbed…
Likewise.
Yes, I know I am right and all other beliefs are false.
Silent scream...But I'd expect nothing else. From you or anyone else from any other religion. Nobody sane person holds to a belief that they think is false.
 
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1Tonne

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I cannot make an image of something which I do not believe exists. The only images (plural) that I have of God are the ones given to me by people who believe He exists. Ranging from a Sunday School version looking like a Michelangelo painting, through a deity willing to drown an entire planet and order the massacre of women and children to an all loving God that only wants the best for me and the rest of humanity. Plus umpteen other versions garnered from very many years talking to people like you on forums like this.
I think you've highlighted an important point: people often have very different ideas about who God is. But those differences don't mean there is no true God; they mean people don't always understand Him correctly. As Christians, our standard isn't Michelangelo's paintings or popular opinion, but the God revealed in Scripture and ultimately in Jesus Christ.

Regarding the flood, I don't see it as God drowning innocent people. The Bible repeatedly says that humanity had become thoroughly corrupt and that "every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually" (Genesis 6:5). God, as the Creator and Judge of all, had every right to judge sin. What amazes me isn't that He judged the world, but that He showed mercy at all by preserving Noah and his family. The flood is both a picture of God's justice against evil and His mercy in providing a way of salvation.

The difficult passages about the destruction of women and children are harder. Although these woman and children (maybe not babies) have earned punishment if they have broken His commandments. But I don't pretend they're easy. I think we should be careful not to judge God's actions as though He were merely another human ruler. If God is the giver of life, then He also has authority over life in a way that no human being does. The Bible consistently presents Him as perfectly just, even when His judgments are difficult for us to understand. The same God who judged sin is the God who later entered history in the person of Jesus Christ and willingly bore that judgment Himself so that sinners could be forgiven. Justice and mercy meet at the cross.
No you cannot choose to believe.
Let me word it a different way.
I actually agree with you that belief isn't something we simply choose at will. You can't decide to believe the moon is made of cheese because we know it's not, and I can't decide to believe 2 + 2 = 5.
Where we disagree is over what every person already knows.
According to Romans 1, God has made Himself known to every person through what He has made. His eternal power and divine nature are clearly perceived, so that people are without excuse. The issue, according to the Bible, isn't that people lack the evidence of a creator, but that they suppress the truth in unrighteousness because they don't want to honour God or give thanks to Him. They love their sin and then dull down their understanding. Romans then goes on to say that these people professed to be wise and knowledgeable but, they became fools.

So, I wouldn't say you can simply choose to believe in God. I'd say, as Scripture does, that every person already knows Him at some level because He has revealed Himself through creation. Just as we know that a book cannot make itself, and you would call me silly or a fool if I said it did, so too creation cannot make itself either. The choice is whether to honour Him and submit to Him, or to suppress that truth and continue living independently of Him.

Now if we would laugh at the silly mentality of someone who would say that the book could fall together by itself, how much sillier is it to think that creation fell together by chance? LOL
 
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throughfierytrial

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If it's a 'cursory check' then I can't see anything wrong with that in itself.

'You OK? I mean, like spiritually?'
'Yeah, I'm good'

End of discussion. But I'm really not getting that minimalist vibe from a lot of posts. It comes across as a duty to save the guy, not to ask if everything is OK.

And if that amounts to 'You OK? I mean, like spiritually?' then his responsibility has been fullfilled.

Likewise.

Silent scream...But I'd expect nothing else. From you or anyone else from any other religion. Nobody sane person holds to a belief that they think is false.
I believe we are getting into the area of stupid and senseless arguments here which Timothy states we are to have nothing to do with, so I’ll leave you with prayers for spiritual sight.
 
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