Any conditionalist or annihilationist churches?

9Rock9 said:

I've been studying the Bible and theology in an effort to better hash out what I personally believe.

For the most part, I affirm the basics of evangelical Trinitarian Christianity.

One area I have changed my mind on is the fate of the unsaved. I used to affirm the traditional Protestant view of eternal conscious torment, but now I lean towards conditional immortality/annihilationism.

However, my view isn't quite the same as Adventism, as I still reject soul sleep. I still think the deceased person has a conscious existence in the afterlife, but they will eventually cease to exist without God sustaining them.

Are there any denominations that teach this view, or at least permit members to hold to it?

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Sadly, as far as I know, there aren't any denominations that are mostly orthodox in nature who specifically affirm annihilationism as a central teaching. About the best you're going to get is a church that more or less 'allows' you to hold that view if it makes sense to you, similar to how some churches will 'allow' you to hold theological evolution as a view if it makes sense to you.

But without going 'progressive,' I don't think there's much out there for you (or me if I was concerned about it), unless you want to perhaps shell out some money and travel to some city where there's a church like that of the late John Stott.

However, as with several major issues in Eschatology, it's probably best to just hold your expectations to yourself and find a church in which you at least find yourself in agreement with most of the other core doctrines.

There is a need for a new kind of exploratory denomination that evades both of the extremes on either side of hyper-fundamentalism or hyper-progressivism. At the moment, I don't know of any church that is mostly traditional, maybe evangelical, but who is willing to relegate issues of the beginning or the end to 'secondary concerns.'

Sorry buddy. But be blessed in your search.

9Rock9 said:

I've been studying the Bible and theology in an effort to better hash out what I personally believe.

For the most part, I affirm the basics of evangelical Trinitarian Christianity.

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At 24.5 Million the Adventist church is the single largest world wide trinitarian evangelical denomination, according to what I have seen from AI Q&A trials.

And they teach something similar to your view on final punishment vs eternal punishing

9Rock9 said:

One area I have changed my mind on is the fate of the unsaved. I used to affirm the traditional Protestant view of eternal conscious torment, but now I lean towards conditional immortality/annihilationism.

However, my view isn't quite the same as Adventism, as I still reject soul sleep. I still think the deceased person has a conscious existence in the afterlife, but they will eventually cease to exist without God sustaining them.

Are there any denominations that teach this view, or at least permit members to hold to it?

Click to expand...

Adventists teach that the person is in a dormant state in the first death and then is bodily resurrected, and cast alive in the lake of fire where they are fully conscious until the punishment debt determined in the judgment is paid in full (Matt 18) and then they cease.

Here is how the bible describes the saints who have died.

John 11:
11 These things He said, and after that He said to them, “Our friend Lazarus sleeps, but I go that I may wake him up.”
12 Then His disciples said, “Lord, if he sleeps he will get well.” 13 However, Jesus spoke of his death

1 Thess 4:13-18
13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

Daniel 12:2: Prophesies of the resurrection, stating, "Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt"

1 Cor 15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”

Interesting collection of Bible texts on this web page

Continuation of my previous post above...

In the view we find in those texts in my post above..

scenario 1. My Nephew passes away last year rather suddenly as a young man in the prime of life. Circumstances prevent me from attending the funeral. Then this next year Jesus appears just as Matt 24 and 1 Thess 4:13-18 say.

As we are all ascending to heaven in the 1 Thess 4 (Matt 24:31) rapture, I find my nephew and we are praising God. Then I start to recall the events a couple of years ago, his sudden passing , all the sorrow of the family and the fact that I missed his funeral. I apologize to him for missing the day of his passing.

He says to me, "Uncle Bob, TODAY is the day I passed away, I was very sick this morning then suddenly bright lights, I am resurrected and here I am rising with you in the rapture going to heaven".

I say, 'no no not this morning , it was two years ago'.

He says "nope, it was about 20 minutes ago and quite frankly, aside from that inconvenience earlier this morning, this is the BEST day of my entire life"

"Ok,,,well then... never mind" and we continue on our way praising God all the way to the New Jerusalem in heaven"

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This is that view of death, some find so utterly unacceptable, yet it is what the Bible describes.

In the Bible model of "The dead know nothing" Eccl 9;5 .. not even the passing of time . So then the day of one's death seems instantaneous with the glorious resurrection to the one passing through the instant of death. It is right then that the experience being raised to the presence of Christ joined by all of one's saved loved ones meeting together for the first time in that realm

Everyone has free will and can reject this conclusion of course, just as they wish, but they should at least have an accurate understanding of what it is predicting for one who experiences death and then immediately experiences the appearing of Christ and the resurrection of 1 Thess 4.

9Rock9 said:

However, my view isn't quite the same as Adventism, as I still reject soul sleep. I still think the deceased person has a conscious existence in the afterlife, but they will eventually cease to exist without God sustaining them.

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In my opinion, the believe in conscious existence after death, but before the return of Christ, is of sneaky bit of Platonism that snuck into Christianity.

Best wishes,
Kevin T

9Rock9 said:

at least permit members to hold to it?

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Conditional immortality or annihilationism is within the range of views accepted in my (Episcopal) church.

The Episcopal Church is orthodox in many ways: Nicene and Apostles' creeds, Trinitarian, Chalcedonian view of the Incarnation. But we also allow freedom of thought in many matters, especially when we step outside these core theological statements.

We affirm as much about the life to come as are in our creeds and liturgy. "[Jesus] will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end." "I believe in ... the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting." "We look for the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come."

However, our liturgy has much less to say about the fate of those who do not come to faith before death, and I have seen a variety of views among Episcopalians (including clergy) on this question. Some take the traditional heaven/hell view. Some affirm universal reconciliation. Some say "we don't know". And some are annihilationists.

You'd be welcome to join us for worship, and to stay with us if you like what you see. Two things I should mention are 1) we're liturgical, and 2) we allow women and gay people in church leadership. If you're willing to live with those two features of our church, then maybe we'd fit what you're looking for.

As a follow-up, if you're okay with liturgy but you don't like the Episcopal Church's stance on gender issues, a parish affiliated with one of the Continuing Anglican groups might be a home for you. In the US, churches that have "Anglican" (instead of "Episcopal") in their church names are usually Continuing Anglican churches. I know less about the details of their theology, but I think they also allow some freedom of belief regarding eschatology.