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Religiosity as an advantageous trait

Carl Emerson

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Can you expand on that please, or perhaps I mean clarify. Is "more" religion more diversity of religion, more followers of religion, more commitment to following religion and so on? These are all quite different and would be expected to have different effects. (And there are likely to be more possible "mores").

Likewise with corruption: more corruption of the individual, more corruption of society, more corruption of institutions, etc, Which is it?

This was a general comment in a lecture, he was referring to the Asian scene with a predominance of Hindu and Buddhist religious systems.

He stressed that what people actually worship is better measured by what they do than what they claim.

Given that Paul was clear about pagan belief systems being demonic the conclusion is not surprising.
 
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d taylor

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I wonder if the propensity or otherwise for believing that there is an entity or a person / persons outside the realm of people we can see who "pulls" or has pulled the strings behind the scenes ,as it were -ie religiosity in its varied forms....

I wonder if this propensity in the individual or group can be considered as conferring an evolutionary advantage ?

I imagine there could be many possible ways it might confer an advantage ,and possibly a disadvantage.

I imagine ,at the outset (and fairly obviously) that it would promote social cohesion insomuch as it provides communal stories as a focal point.

If the religion occupies the highest positions in the society (as a priestly caste) then the lower echelons can advance their cause (and their chances of finding a mate) by acquiescing with that belief structure,genuinely or not.

But these are just my raw hypotheses.I am sure there are other angles to it ,even if it is not a subject I have heard taken up before or one that had previously crossed my mind.
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Religiosity is absolutely no good and will eventually lead a person to experience the second death and the lake of fire.

Unless the persons religiosity eventually leads them to believe in Jesus for Eternal Life (God's free gift)!
 
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RileyG

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Two superpowers.

One founded on JEHOVAH, and the other founded on JESUS CHRIST.

Both founded on the Word of God.

JERUSALEM
What? Elaborate please. I'm not following?

YHWH and JEHOVAH aren't the same- there is no J in Hebrew.

Many of the founders of the USA were deists or Christian in name only- that can be debated- I'm no scholar.
 
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RileyG

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I think it's important to note that being a Christian isn't about "going to heaven" when you die. It's about a relationship with God that affects how a person lives in the here and now. Not a "insurance policy" to avoid hellfire.

Ultimately, heaven is the way station where the save "wait" until the resurrection of the body at the end of time when Christ returns.*

*per Christian theology, that is.

**The damned will also rise.
 
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RileyG

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Religiosity is absolutely no good and will eventually lead a person to experience the second death and the lake of fire.

Unless the persons religiosity eventually leads them to believe in Jesus for Eternal Life (God's free gift)!
From a mere Christian perspective, sure! If religiosity is a state of being religious, that can refer to any religion. Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Taoism, Buddhism, Sikhism, Bahai, and on and on.

(stating that as a faithful Christian)
 
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jasperr

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From a mere Christian perspective, sure! If religiosity is a state of being religious, that can refer to any religion. Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Taoism, Buddhism, Sikhism, Bahai, and on and on.

(stating that as a faithful Christian)
I defined what I understood "religiosity" to mean in the OP.

If posters want to define it otherwise ,they should indicate as much -or perhaps consider posting in a thread where their own definition applies.

That,or they could explain if there is a flaw in my definition but it would be good if the topic of the thread could be argued on its own merits or otherwise.

Apparently it is an area of research .I will have to look into that literature as there is more heat than light in a lot of the posts that have been offered.(some posters may disagree that evolution is a real phenonenon and so presumably reject the premise of the OP at the outset)
 
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CIA Agent #1029

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Man … all you guys touting the untruth that Christians make better warriors because they believe in an afterlife are making a mockery of your Christianity (yours, not mine). You really should stop. The level of ignorance, arrogance and complete lack of humility is casting a very long shadow of contempt on the valor of those who died selflessly in any war; regardless of their religious convictions. Please stop this foolishness …

I would venture a guess that many/most here on this forum hold to mainstream Christian orthodoxy (I do not). This usually means, a strong stance against Christian Universalism (my position). Why is this relevant? Time and again, when engaging someone on the topic of Christian Universalism, they will quote Jesus’ words in Mathew 7.

”“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’“
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7‬:‭21‬-‭23‬ ‭NIV‬‬.

The part that cracks me up is “they” never seem to think it applies to themselves! Oh the irony …

So tell me … just how can anyone who believes mainstream Christian orthodoxy and a promise of eternal life, which according to their own interpretation, they can never be sure they will make it until after they die and they are resurrected. How do you frame your position of Christians being the mightiest of warriors, when they cannot be sure they are going to make the cut themselves?

Your premise is flawed. Your reasoning is flawed. Your theology casts doubt on your obtaining the prize you hope to obtain. Yet, somehow you believe this type of man is going to be more valiant just because he’s a Christian? I have never served in the armed forces much less seen battle. But, I would venture a guess that the majority of men/women who have seen battle just wanted to make it out alive and would do whatever must be done to make that happen. They want to live through it to return to their families, loved ones and enjoy the simple things in life once again.
If you meant me with that, then know I said belief in God and the afterlife. Whether christian, muslim, jewish, pagan, or something else, they're superior to those who don't believe.
I think it's important to note that being a Christian isn't about "going to heaven" when you die. It's about a relationship with God that affects how a person lives in the here and now. Not a "insurance policy" to avoid hellfire.

Ultimately, heaven is the way station where the save "wait" until the resurrection of the body at the end of time when Christ returns.*

*per Christian theology, that is.

**The damned will also rise.
Life is 80 years, sometimes longer, sometimes shorter, and very limited. The afterlife is eternal, and way less limited.

And half the bible relates pretty obviously to the afterlife.

So what are you saying?
 
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Bradskii

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If you meant me with that, then know I said belief in God and the afterlife. Whether christian, muslim, jewish, pagan, or something else, they're superior to those who don't believe.
I think my position is summed up by the advice I have already given to my grandson. That there are no pearly gates or 72 virgins waiting for you. There is no reincarnation. All religions have an afterlife because it's human nature to try to avoid oblivion (and some will think themselves superior if they believe they can). It scares a lot of people. But you don't get a second chance to live a worthwhile life. So make the best of this one, treat others as you would wish to be treated, do your best to limit your mistakes and learn from those you make.

Make each day count, because this is not a dress rehearsal.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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I think my position is summed up by the advice I have already given to my grandson. That there are no pearly gates or 72 virgins waiting for you. There is no reincarnation. All religions have an afterlife because it's human nature to try to avoid oblivion (and some will think themselves superior if they believe they can). It scares a lot of people. But you don't get a second chance to live a worthwhile life. So make the best of this one, treat others as you would wish to be treated, do your best to limit your mistakes and learn from those you make.

Make each day count, because this is not a dress rehearsal.

Good advice.
 
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Free2bHeretical4Him!

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If you meant me with that, then know I said belief in God and the afterlife. Whether christian, muslim, jewish, pagan, or something else, they're superior to those who don't believe.
Not specifically directed at you … Now, your qualification above is interesting. So, what is the difference between someone who believes in a false deity and an atheist when they engage in warfare? One rejects the idea in belief in any deity but believes in the here and now with man being the central focus of their existence, or someone who believes in a false, inferior deity that YAHWEH himself despises and that cannot help but offer anything but false hope?

So it’s not about putting your trust in the one true God that propels a warrior forward in bravery. But just as long as one believes in a deity of some kind, they are somehow more valiant than one who believes in himself? Honestly. If I were a betting man, I would put my money on the atheist who is driven by self preservation and love for humanity. At least they are fighting for something real and genuine.
Life is 80 years, sometimes longer, sometimes shorter, and very limited. The afterlife is eternal, and way less limited.

And half the bible relates pretty obviously to the afterlife.

So what are you saying?
 
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Neogaia777

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I think my position is summed up by the advice I have already given to my grandson. That there are no pearly gates or 72 virgins waiting for you. There is no reincarnation. All religions have an afterlife because it's human nature to try to avoid oblivion (and some will think themselves superior if they believe they can). It scares a lot of people. But you don't get a second chance to live a worthwhile life. So make the best of this one, treat others as you would wish to be treated, do your best to limit your mistakes and learn from those you make.

Make each day count, because this is not a dress rehearsal.
That is good advice, and it should be heeded/listened to regardless. But somewhere between there can't be/isn't any kind of God or afterlife, and it being human nature to believe there is, is the real truth, and it's what I'm after.

Both schools of thought are naturally biased in my view/opinion, etc, and I've come up with a way that it all still can be true/still possible, and I'm working on that right now currently to find out how likely/not likely it is right now currently, etc.

Take Care.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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Croseo.

But it's true though: the afterlife comes after. Right now, we're alive and so is everyone else we know. The here and now matters as much if not more than what comes after.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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I think my position is summed up by the advice I have already given to my grandson. That there are no pearly gates or 72 virgins waiting for you. There is no reincarnation. All religions have an afterlife because it's human nature to try to avoid oblivion (and some will think themselves superior if they believe they can). It scares a lot of people. But you don't get a second chance to live a worthwhile life. So make the best of this one, treat others as you would wish to be treated, do your best to limit your mistakes and learn from those you make.

Make each day count, because this is not a dress rehearsal.

What horrible advice to give to your grandson. And here I am, making the effort to help one of 'mine' find it in his mind to believe that Christ is the Risen Savior and Lord. And there you are, doing the opposite for one of yours. And more so, it seems.

That's not commendable, Bradskii. You really need to rethink that one. What was it Jesus is reported to have said in Matthew 18:6?

I'm sorry if this upsets your day.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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That is good advice, and it should be heeded/listened to regardless. But somewhere between there can't be/isn't any kind of God or afterlife, and it being human nature to believe there is, is the real truth, and it's what I'm after.

Both schools of thought are naturally biased in my view/opinion, etc, and I've come up with a way that it all still can be true/still possible, and I'm working on that right now currently to find out how likely/not likely it is right now currently, etc.

Take Care.

Nah. Rethink that.
 
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Bradskii

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What horrible advice to give to your grandson.
Why? The advice stands whether there is an afterlife or not. Make the most of your time here. Learn by your mistakes. Treat others as you would wish to be treated. Live your life well. It will be the only one that you get. You don't get a second chance to live it.

Heaven only knows what you think heaven is meant to be so I have no idea what ideas you have on the matter you will pass on. Ask ten people on this forum what they think it is and you'll get ten different answers. But I guarantee it'll be what they individually hope it will be. I'll tell my grandson what I'm certain will happen, but at some point he'll make his own mind up about it.

But as I say, the advice still stands. Don't treat this as a dress rehearsal for whatever you think comes next.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Why? The advice stands whether there is an afterlife or not. Make the most of your time here. Learn by your mistakes. Treat others as you would wish to be treated. Live your life well. It will be the only one that you get. You don't get a second chance to live it.

Heaven only knows what you think heaven is meant to be so I have no idea what ideas you have on the matter you will pass on. Ask ten people on this forum what they think it is and you'll get ten different answers. But I guarantee it'll be what they individually hope it will be. I'll tell my grandson what I'm certain will happen, but at some point he'll make his own mind up about it.

But as I say, the advice still stands. Don't treat this as a dress rehearsal for whatever you think comes next.

Don't try to get out of the insinuated guilt, Bradskii. I notice you like to deflect the criticisms of others by reduction and skirting the antecedents of your own arguments when it's convenient............ Don't deny by giving it the silent treatment, as if everyone will 'jes forget aboud'it.'

You're way too over confident about your evolutionary invoked social view too much of the time. Maybe let your grandson know where your limits of knowledge about religion actually lie?
 
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Neogaia777

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Nah. Rethink that.
I did mean about making the most out of this life you know. Not his necessarily telling his grandson this is the only one there is, instead of allowing him to fully explore and come to those conclusions himself (if he does) etc. But they're also his grandchildren, and his family, and not mine, so he can tell them whatever he wants, etc.

God Bless.
 
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Neogaia777

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Nah. Rethink that.
Even under our vews, there is a great deal of importance placed upon this life, since it does in a way determine your afterlife, so you want to get the most out of it that you can, and do it well and right, or as right as you can, etc. That's what I'm agreeing with, etc.

The experience(s) that you are supposed to get here, most of them don't get to occur again in the afterlife, so you want to get/have as many of those experiences that you can while you are here, and learn/change/grow/evolve (into a better person) from them while you are here, and while you still can, etc.
 
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