Law Out – Life In!

I do know, there is not one Scripture that says we should stop loving or obeying God or stop listening to and believing Jesus.

Exo 20:6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

This is one of the last Scriptures in the Bible and nothing after to refute it

Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

In Scripture its disobeying and sinning that leads to death, not obeying God. Rom6:16

WordSword said:

Hi, and appreciate your reply!

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Its a good conversation to have.

WordSword said:

If one desires to keep the Decalogue I find no problem with it, but it's for the Jews only. There are Christian commands we are to keep as believers in Christ!

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If you read carefully what God said, right in the Ten Commandments, He said its for those who love Him Exo20:6. God also shows no partiality Rom2:11

Exo 20:6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

Why when Jesus taught not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments He said "whoever" Mat5:19-30

WordSword said:

Many gravitate to the Decalogue because of thinking it will make them right with God! But only the Jew keeping the Law, can “live” (Mat 19:17), for to him only was the Decalogue made. Jesus came to establish the Law by “fulfilling” it (Mat 5:17); and after fulfilling it, God “took it away” (Heb 10:9), so that the Jew would advance onto being in Christ, which some did (e.g. the Apostles and disciples). Though an Israelite was saved by obeying the Law, which was the sole means of salvation at that time, disobeying it brought judgment. -NC

Law Out – Life In!​

The law is neither the ground of life to the sinner nor the rule of life to the Christian: the Lord Jesus is both the one and the other—He is our life and He is our rule of life. The law can only curse and slay. The Lord Jesus is our life and righteousness. He went down into the place where the sinner lay—into the place of death and judgement; and having, by His death, entirely discharged all that was or could be against us, He became, in resurrection, the source of Life and the ground of righteousness to all who believed in His name.

Having life and righteousness in Him, we are called to walk not merely as the law directs, but to “walk even as He walked” (1Jo 2:6). It will hardly be deemed needful to assert that it is directly contrary to Christian nature and ethics to kill, commit adultery, or steal. But were a Christian to shape his way according to these commands, or according to the entire Decalogue, would he yield the rare and delicate fruits which the epistle of Ephesians sets forth?

Would the Ten Commandments ever cause a thief to give up stealing, and go to work that he might have to give? Would they ever transform a robber into a laborious and liberal man? Assuredly not. The law says, “Thou shalt not steal”: but does it say, Go and give to him that needeth. Go feed, clothe, and bless your enemy; go gladden by your benevolent feelings and your beneficent acts of the heart for him who only and always seeks your harm (like the Gospel does –NC)? By no means; and yet, were I under the law as a rule, it could only curse and slay me.

How is this, when the standard in the New Testament is so much higher? Because I am weak, and the law gives me no strength and shows me no mercy. The law demands strength from one that has none, and curses him if he cannot display it. The Gospel gives strength to one that has none, and blesses him in the exhibition of it. The law proposes life as the end of obedience; the Gospel gives life as the only proper ground of obedience.

If the law be indeed the rule of a believer’s life, where are we to find it presented in the New Testament? Paul evidently had no thought of its being the rule when he penned the following words: “For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything nor uncircumcision, but a new creation. And “as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy” (Gal 6:15). What “rule”? The law? No; But the “new creation.” The law speaks not a word about “new creation.”

Why does not Paul say, As many as walk according to the rule of the Ten Commandments? Is it not evident that the believer has a higher rule by which to walk? Unquestionably. The Ten Commandments, though forming, as a true Christians admit, a part of the canon of inspiration, could never be the rule of life to one who has, through infinite grace, been recreated into the new creation, one who has received new Life in the Lord Jesus Christ. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death” (Ro 8:2)


— Charles Henry Mackintosh (1820-1896)








MJS daily devotional for July 20


“We are to find out in Romans 6, through the gracious teaching of the Spirit of truth, all that happened to the Lord Jesus there on the Cross. Then we will know our own position and standing, since we were judicially in Him there.” -MJS

“Have you ever thought about God’s thought about you, that you are ‘to be conformed to the image of His Son’? ‘It doth not yet appear what we shall be, but we know that, when He shall appear, we shall be like Him’ (Rom. 8:29; 1 John 3:2).

“This cannot fail. The Lord Jesus presses on our hearts that He brings us into association with Himself. He ‘hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ Jesus’ (Eph. 1:3). He puts us in this position answering perfectly to His nature, and with a nature to enjoy it.”

“He imparts to us of Himself in order to qualify us for Himself.”

“Not only is my blessing in heaven, but I need the Lord Jesus’ power to enable me to rise above the sense of my infirmity down here; for this world, instead of contributing to me, makes me feel my weakness and need, and that I must rise out of it to find and enjoy my blessing.

“The very infirmity which this evil age makes me conscious of makes me draw upon the power of Christ, as the One outside it, passing into the heavens, so that I take pleasure in the very infirmity which is exposed here, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.” James Butler Stoney (1814-1897)

None But The Hungry Heart

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More Exclusive Brethren antinomianism. Why do you hate God's Law so much?

WordSword said:

Many gravitate to the Decalogue because of thinking it will make them right with God!

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I study the Law and Prophets as P{aul instructs, because the Jesus of the Bible said, both as the Rock of Israel, and as the man Jesus HE became, "But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Paul taught:

2 Tim. 3: 16 All scripture is given by inspiration "of God", and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, "for instruction in righteousness:" 17 That the "man of God" may be perfect, "throughly furnished" unto all "good works".

I believe these "Good Works" would not be "mans works", after the imagination of men, but would be the "works of God" Paul spoke to the Ephesians about.

Eph. 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift "of God": 9 Not of (man's) works, lest "any man" should boast. 10 For we (Those who have "Yielded themselves" to God, and their bodies as instruments of Righteousness unto God (Rom. 6: 12,13) are HIS workmanship, created in Christ Jesus "unto good works", which God (Not Man) "hath before ordained" that we "should walk in them".

Jesus also told me, "33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. Paul teaches that the Righteousness of God is revealed to us, in the Law and Prophets, where it is written, "The Just shall Live by Faith".

So for me, I study the Holy Scriptures, including what Paul called "The Gospel of Christ", shown to us in the Law and Prophets. The Same Gospel that was given to Israel, but many of them didn't mix the hearing of the Gospel of Christ with Faith/Belief. Paul pleaded with men to, as HE teaches:

Rom. 12: 1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, "acceptable unto God", which is "your reasonable service". 2 And be not conformed to this world:(including it's religions, yes?) but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that "ye may prove" what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Getting "Right with God", according to the Holy scriptures, required humble repentance from the heart, and then "Turning to God", and "studying to show ourselves approved" so we can bring forth "Works" worthy of Repentance. At least this is Paul's teaching. (Acts 26: 19, 20)

If we don't go to the place where God's Righteousness, and also where the Wrath of God against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men is revealed, then how will we know what the "Good Works" God before ordained that we should walk in them?

WordSword said:

But only the Jew keeping the Law, can “live” (Mat 19:17), for to him only was the Decalogue made.

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But Jesus said to the Disciples and to the Multitudes;

Matt. 23: 1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, 2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: 3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

And Jesus didn't say, "Jews shall live by Every Word of God", He said "Man" shall Live by Every Word of God. And Paul teaches that God is no respecter of persons. I have heard of this world's popular religious philosophy that God's Judges humans based on the DNA they were born with. But the Jesus of the Bible teaches, "If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do "the works" of Abraham.". (Would these not be the Good Works God before Ordained that men should walk in them?) So a "Jew" isn't one outwardly, but of the heart. So the Gentile Shunammite woman, though outwardly a Gentile, was a "Jew", and child of Abraham, in her heart.

WordSword said:

Jesus came to establish the Law by “fulfilling” it (Mat 5:17); and after fulfilling it, God “took it away” (Heb 10:9), so that the Jew would advance onto being in Christ, which some did (e.g. the Apostles and disciples). Though an Israelite was saved by obeying the Law, which was the sole means of salvation at that time, disobeying it brought judgment. -NC

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Jesus "Fulfilled" the Prophesy of Him ushering in the New Priesthood Covenant, NOT after the Order of Aaron, but "after the Order of Melchizedek". But HE has not yet "Fulfill ALL things, as HE has not yet returned to raise the dead, Like Abraham and David, and separate the wheat from the tares. Paul taught both Jew and Gentile to "Yield themselves servants to obey God, and become "Servants of God's Righteousness". It's important to consider "EVERY Word" that Proceeds from the mouth of God concerning doctrine, in my understanding.

And Paul never taught there are 2 different Gospels of Christ, one for men born with Jewish DNA and one for men not born with Jewish DNA. You should read Rom. 2: 5-11. And you will see that neither Paulk, not God, as Paul teaches, treats men according to the DNA they were born with.

I hope you might consider these things in your studies, and, as Paul teaches "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition "of men", after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ."

And to consider that it was the "Christ" that Led Israel out of Egypt, and fed them Spiritual Teaching (Meat). I think if you did, your study might change a lot.

WordSword said:

Law Out – Life In!​

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WordSword said:

Hi A! It's difficult to discuss the Law when we do not realize not only was it to those of Jewish ethnicity, but was "taken away" (Heb 10:9) from God's people. Presently they have no covenant with God, but will again latter (Jer 31:31-33; Eze 36:25-27). Christians do not need a covenant with God because the present Christians Covenant is with God and His Son. (The Covenant of Redemption)


The Covenant of Redemption (or pactum salutis) is an eternal agreement within the Trinity, established before creation. The Father appointed the Son to be the Redeemer of the elect. The Son willingly agreed to take on human flesh and suffer for humanity's sins, and the Holy Spirit agreed to apply this salvation.

This theological concept, popularized by 17th-century Reformed theologians, is foundational to understanding how God's broader plan of salvation operates in history. -Ligonier Ministries

What Is the Covenant of Redemption?

A persistent tradition claims that upon being mocked by a skeptic with regard to his doctrine of creation, Saint Augustine was cynically asked, “What was God do

learn.ligonier.org

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Although we are not under the Civil or Ceremonial Law, we are still under the Moral Law of God. This was revealed to Israel in the 10 commandments. To the Church in Christ's command to love God with our whole being and our neighbor as ourselves. This law has been written in our hearts as a result of the New Covenant.

WordSword said:

Only the Jew keeping the Law, can “live” (Mat 19:17), for to him only was the Decalogue made. Jesus came to establish the Law by “fulfilling” it (Mat 5:17); and after fulfilling it, God “took it away” (Heb 10:9), so that the Jew would advance onto being in Christ, which some did (e.g. the Apostles and disciples). Though an Israelite was saved by obeying the Law, which was the sole means of salvation at that time, disobeying it brought judgment. -NC

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You have identified two dispensational principles in the opening remarks above that are easily dispelled:

1. Obeying the law was at one time the only means of salvation

Obeying the law was never a means of salvation for anyone, even Jews.

WordSword said:

The Covenant of Redemption (or pactum salutis) is an eternal agreement within the Trinity, established before creation. The Father appointed the Son to be the Redeemer of the elect. The Son willingly agreed to take on human flesh and suffer for humanity's sins, and the Holy Spirit agreed to apply this salvation.

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After so long you are coming out as Reformed?

There has never been two salvations and never a salvation for Jews and a salvation for everyone else, this is essentially two gospels.

The only salvation in both OT and NT is through faith in the Cross.

In the OT it was faith looking forward to the Cross, in the NT its faith looking back at the Cross.

The law cannot save anyone, its there to show us our true condition Rom7:7 Rom3:20 James 1:22-25, so we see God's standard of righteousness and where we fail, so we can seek Jesus our Savior from sin Mat1:21 and through His power, we too can live in righteousness Psa 119:172 Isa 56:1-2 John14:15-18 Rev14:12 Rev22:14 the way He always intended man to live before sin separated us Isa 59:2

WordSword said:

but was "taken away" (Heb 10:9) from God's people.

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The word you are looking for is "fulfilled."

Matthew 5:17

Edit: I misread in haste. The law is fulfilled. You are referring to the covenant. I retract my statement. Good post.

Zceptre said:

The word you are looking for is "fulfilled."

Matthew 5:17

Edit: I misread in haste. The law is fulfilled. You are referring to the covenant. I retract my statement. Good post.

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When you say the law is fullfed, what do mean? Some mean it as we no longer need to keep, but in the same breath Jesus said "whoever" to not break or teach others to break the least of these commandments Mat5:19-30 I can't imagine it means Jesus saying we can steal or worship other gods.

SabbathBlessings said:

When you say the law is fullfed, what do mean? Some mean it as we no longer need to keep, but in the same breath Jesus said "whoever" to not break or teach others to break the least of these commandments Mat5:19-30 I can't imagine it means Jesus saying we can steal or worship other gods.

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I mean that only Christ fulfilled the law in His lifetime, and that is what He meant when He stated He came to fulfill the law, since every one of us all have all broken at least one point, and breaking one point, we are guilty of breaking all (James 2:10) (Romans 3:23).

Love fulfills the law (Romans 13:9), and the law is based on love (Matthew 22:37-40). "Love one another" appears repeatedly as the commandment given us in the New Testament (New Covenant) and love is the goal (1 Timothy 1:5), we are nothing without love (1 Corinthians 13:2), and all this because God is love (1 John 4:16).

We should not only be keeping the law (Ten Commandments) but we should be doing more than not harming our neighbor, since the Ten Commandments is based on honoring God (basic foundations) and doing no wrong to our neighbor. We should be visiting the sick, those in prison, helping those who cannot help themselves, and going the extra mile in any way we can to show God's love living inside of us to others around us in life.

We should be loving our neighbor as Christ loves us, not just doing no wrong to them. People should be astonished at how much we love them, since we are to be the hands and feet of Christ. They may just think we are weird and ignore it, or they may become inspired and accept Christ as Lord.

If a person thinks to say we are not under the law, simply so they can avoid "rules" they are missing the entire point of the New Covenant with God through Christ, in which God writes His law on our hearts (Ezekiel 11:19 - love God - love others) and we lose our desire for selfish and destructive things that harm our relationship with God, harm ourselves, and harm others (2 Corinthians 3:6).

The entire point is that we walk in such a manner that goes far above needing to follow a set of rules telling us not to harm one another, and instead we are lead by the Spirit of Christ that lays down one's own life out of love for others. In this, we are following Christ, and becoming like Him, and being remade into the image of God's Son (Romans 8:29).

I would never, ever, ever... suggest we not keep the law. But I would suggest we cannot keep it if we are trying to follow the rules in our flesh. If one is breaking God's law, they simply have not become washed in the overwhelming love of God in Christ for them. Only God's love can transform a heart into *wanting* to be more like God.

No person can keep God's law in the flesh. It has to be through a cup overflowing with God's love, so that one's cup stays full, and the overflowing pours (to others) into achieving through His love what we could not in the flesh (John 4:14). The joy of God's love is what enables us to keep the law without it being a burden, or needing a rule-book to avoid harming others.

Zceptre said:

I mean that only Christ fulfilled the law in His lifetime, and that is what He meant when He stated He came to fulfill the law, since every one of us all have all broken at least one point, and breaking one point, we are guilty of breaking all (James 2:10) (Romans 3:23).

Love fulfills the law (Romans 13:9), and the law is based on love (Matthew 22:37-40). "Love one another" appears repeatedly as the commandment given us in the New Testament (New Covenant) and love is the goal (1 Timothy 1:5), we are nothing without love (1 Corinthians 13:2), and all this because God is love (1 John 4:16).

We should not only be keeping the law (Ten Commandments) but we should be doing more than not harming our neighbor, since the Ten Commandments is based on honoring God (basic foundations) and doing no wrong to our neighbor.

We should be loving our neighbor as Christ loves us, not just doing no wrong to them. People should be astonished at how much we love them, since we are to be the hands and feet of Christ. They may just think we are weird and ignore it, or they may become inspired and accept Christ as Lord.

If a person thinks to say we are not under the law, simply so they can avoid "rules" they are missing the entire point of the New Covenant with God through Christ, in which God writes His law on our hearts (Ezekiel 11:19 - love God - love others) and we lose our desire for selfish and destructive things that harm our relationship with God, harm ourselves, and harm others (2 Corinthians 3:6).

The entire point is that we walk in such a manner that goes far above needing to follow a set of rules telling us not to harm one another, and instead we are lead by the Spirit of Christ that lays down one's own life out of love for others. In this, we are following Christ, and becoming like Him, and being remade into the image of God's Son (Romans 8:29).

I would never, ever, ever... suggest we not keep the law. But I would suggest we cannot keep it if we are trying to follow the rules in our flesh. If one is breaking God's law, they simply have not become washed in the overwhelming love of God in Christ for them. Only God's love can transform a heart into *wanting* to be more like God.

No person can keep God's law in the flesh. It has to be through a cup overflowing with God's love, so that one's cup stays full, and the overflowing pours (to others) into achieving through His love what we could not in the flesh (John 4:14). The joy of God's love is what enables us to keep the law without it being a burden, or needing a rule-book to avoid harming others.

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I agree with this, but we need to be careful saying we do not need a rule book when its God's laws being placed in our hearts and minds Jer 31:33 Heb8:10 not something abstract. When we follow the dictates of our own heart Jer 17:9 verses what God says to do for those who love Him Exo20:6 we end up missing the bigger picture and may end up covering our sins instead of confessing and forsaking Pro28:13. Paul needed the law to show him sin, as do we all Rom3:20 James 1:22-25 so we are not depending on our version of right and wrong, but on God's standard Psa 119:172 Isa 56:1-2 which is everlasting Psa 119:142

Thanks for your post, I agree with a lot of it! God bless!

SabbathBlessings said:

Thanks for your post, I agree with a lot of it! God bless!

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I don't think you are disagreeing with me at all. I simply am trying to describe something much larger, in a more concise posting.

I don't mean at all the Bible or any part of it should be thrown out, since it is all a picture of God's heart poured out for us, and it is also how we know Him better and learn just how intense His love really is and how far He has went and how much effort He has put into our Salvation.

1 John 1:9 doesn't mince words about confessing our sin. The point of confession is admitting our need for Christ, rather than supposing we can deal with our sin. It is all meant to humble us at the feet of Christ, and Christ is the Word of God (John 1).

SabbathBlessings said:

Paul needed the law to show Him sin, as do we all Rom3:20 James 1:22-25

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This is exactly the point of the law. It isn't to save anyone directly itself, but to reveal our desperate need for a Savior (Galatians 3:24). When we accept the Savior we can receive God's Holy Spirit which then guides us into His love that fulfills the law without having to check the rule-book for every situation we are in. We are guided directly by Him who is living in us at that point, and the Spirit of Christ is the law since Christ is the Word made flesh.

If we disagree at all, I don't see it in what you've written here. The subject can get deep very fast even though it is based on simple principles.

Zceptre said:

I don't think you are disagreeing with me at all. I simply am trying to describe something much larger, in a more concise posting.

I don't mean at all the Bible or any part of it should be thrown out, since it is all a picture of God's heart poured out for us, and it is also how we know Him better and learn just how intense His love really is and how far He has went and how much effort He has put into our Salvation.

1 John 1:9 doesn't mince words about confessing our sin. The point of confession is admitting our need for Christ, rather than supposing we can deal with our sin. It is all meant to humble us at the feet of Christ, and Christ is the Word of God (John 1).


This is exactly the point of the law. It isn't to save anyone directly itself, but to reveal our desperate need for a Savior (Galatians 3:24). When we accept the Savior we can receive God's Holy Spirit which then guides us into His love that fulfills the law without have to check the rule-book for every situation we are in. We are guided directly by Him who is living in us at that point, and the Spirit of Christ is the law since Christ is the Word made flesh.

If we disagree at all, I don't see it in what you've written here. The subject can get deep very fast even though it is based on simple principles.

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I think its the wording from past discussions, many people teach the law of God and the Holy Spirit are on opposite pages, despite God being the one to write His own commandments Exo31:18 and the Holy Spirit is to bring us back to what God says John14:26 the Holy Spirit is what convicts us of sin John 16:8 not our definition of sin, but God's Exo20:20 Exo20:1-17 1John3:4 James 2:11. The Holy Spirit enables us through our love to Jesus and wiliness to submit to Him obey His commandments John14:15-18 John15:4-10 and the Holy Spirit resides in those who obey Him Acts 5:32

Hopefully we are speaking of the same thing but I have heard lots of people who think the Holy Spirit and the Law of God under His mercy seat are at odds for some reason.

God bless!

WordSword said:

Hi! What do you mean be two dispensational principles?

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You indicated that there are two dispensations in regards to the means of salvation. Copilot defines "dispensation" this way:


Your divisions are divided in time (in that you distinguished between current times and ancient times when you said "back then...". And I addressed the two items you said were true for "back then" (i.e., that "Obeying the law was at one time the only means of salvation" and "This means of salvation was available for Jews").