Why are there even denominations to begin with?

jmldn2 said:

I absolutely do not understand Catholicism

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That would be the standard if there were no denominations...

jmldn2 said:

I am well aware that not all denominations preach the Gospel. As long as a denomination does preach the Gospel, that is what counts.

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Then you have to answer what the Gospel is. Does it include our Lord establishing the Eucharist (John 6)? Does it include his establishment of the Church with bishops who are successors of the Apostles (Matt. 16, 18)? Is Trinitarian baptism necessary (Matt. 28)? These questions, among others, make up the "entanglement of doctrine" you see as unnecessary.

Doctrine isn't everything, but it is important to get it right.

jmldn2 said:

I absolutely do not understand Catholicism

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By Catholicism, who are you referring to?

jas3 said:

Then you have to answer what the Gospel is. Does it include our Lord establishing the Eucharist (John 6)? Does it include his establishment of the Church with bishops who are successors of the Apostles (Matt. 16, 18)? Is Trinitarian baptism necessary (Matt. 28)? These questions, among others, make up the "entanglement of doctrine" you see as unnecessary.

Doctrine isn't everything, but it is important to get it right.

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Indeed. At a minimum, the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed, the dogmatic definitions of the Council of Ephesus, and the Chalcedonian and Oriental Orthodox rejections of Monophysitism are regarded as essential to normative Christianity, but there are many other important doctrines of the early church with obvious Scriptural support.

jas3 said:

Then you have to answer what the Gospel is. Does it include our Lord establishing the Eucharist (John 6)? Does it include his establishment of the Church with bishops who are successors of the Apostles (Matt. 16, 18)? Is Trinitarian baptism necessary (Matt. 28)? These questions, among others, make up the "entanglement of doctrine" you see as unnecessary.

Doctrine isn't everything, but it is important to get it right.

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Interestingly, those that eschew 'doctrine' as if to concentrate on Gospel, don't realize they are themselves promoting a doctrine(s). To add to the fun, since Redemption has been the plan from the beginning, the scope of the Gospel encompasses all fact God has decreed, which necessarily includes, "Doctrine".

Mark Quayle said:

Interestingly, those that eschew 'doctrine' as if to concentrate on Gospel, don't realize they are themselves promoting a doctrine(s). To add to the fun, since Redemption has been the plan from the beginning, the scope of the Gospel encompasses all fact God has decreed, which necessarily includes, "Doctrine".

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Indeed I recall an Orthodox scholar making that point as well, and I think LutheranSatire may have also addressed it in a video

@MarkRohfrietsch since I hath nominated thee as knowledgeable on all things that pertaineth to LutheranSatire dost thou remember such an edifying amusement?

The Liturgist said:

Indeed I recall an Orthodox scholar making that point as well, and I think LutheranSatire may have also addressed it in a video

@MarkRohfrietsch since I hath nominated thee as knowledgeable on all things that pertaineth to LutheranSatire dost thou remember such an edifying amusement?

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So much to choose from... Lutheran Satire Website

The Liturgist said:

Indeed. At a minimum, the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed, the dogmatic definitions of the Council of Ephesus, and the Chalcedonian and Oriental Orthodox rejections of Monophysitism are regarded as essential to normative Christianity, but there are many other important doctrines of the early church with obvious Scriptural support.

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The problem is that no collection of Christian creeds and confessions can be complete as they are just mans ideas, to say nothing of the politics and preconceptions involved.

jmldn2 said:

I have no other suggestions about denominations other than the OP where I simply asked the question why we have them

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In Scripture there is only one doctrine.

The Scripture speaks of good doctrine

Pro 4:2 For I give you good doctrine: Do not forsake my law.
Rom6:16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart (Jer31:33 Heb8:10) that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. (doing what is right according to God Psa119:172 Isa 56:1-2)

And false doctrine

Mark 7:7 And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’8 For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men

Col 2:8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.

In Scripture there were more people teaching false doctrine than true doctrine. Jesus warned us in the last days that would also be the case. Mat24:4-5

Why Jesus told mankind to live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God Mat4:4 Paul warned us about following traditions of men of the world over what is according to Christ Col2:8

Doctrine does matter, what God says how man should live if we love Him does matter Exo20:6 1 John5:3 Rev14:12 Rev22:14

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Why its important to test everything we hear in church from our pastors or from what others are teaching to the same standard Paul used, is it according to Christ. Let He be the One we follow and exalt over everyone else.

The everlasting gospel Rev14:6-12 is fear God, give Him Glory, worship the God who has the power to make heaven and earth Exo20:11 Rev14:7 come out of our false teachings that all nations(majority) follow/teach Rev14:8 and keep God's commandments Rev14:12 His version Exo31:18 Deut4:13 Exo20:6 Ecc3:14 not mans Isa 29:13 Mat15:3-14 Jesus told us to take the narrow path Mat7:13-14 that leads to reconciliation Rev22:14

God bless!

reddogs said:

The problem is that no collection of Christian creeds and confessions can be complete as they are just mans ideas, to say nothing of the politics and preconceptions involved.

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If a person has concerns about what a Christian confession preaches, the Creeds are valuable and Biblical backed reference.

If we are talking about biblically solid denominations- Gospel preaching, Trinity affirming, Resurrection, Virgin Birth, five solos, etc then it is simply saved brothers and sisters in Christ with different convictions.

jmldn2 said:

I'm not a scholar (far from it) of history of religion but I have never understood why the Christian world even is divided into "denominations." We are not saved because we are in a certain denomination

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While there have been and always will be controversies, the advent of multiple denominations came with the acceptance of Scripture alone as the sole rule of faith or authority. Because of this, each person, with their own interpretations, became the actual authority resulting in many differing beliefs as Luther, with great concern, predicted might happen.

jmldn2 said:

I believe my question was "why" all the different denominations. I never said what is unnecessary. However, to me the Gospel (meaning good news) is that God Almighty Maker of Heaven and Earth sent his only begotten Son to suffer a horrible death (the Passion of Christ movie is succinctly in showing that death) to save us unworthy and sinful misfits of creation and give us another chance!. That is my Gospel, spoken to mankind through the mouth of Jesus Christ our Savior.

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As long as you understand that Christ’s sacrifice was voluntary and that Christ is God incarnate, that is to say, by being conceived in the womb of the Virgin Mary, that He put on our humanity while remaining fully God, and was fully God and fully man within out change, confusion, separation or division) the person of the Son and Word, coeternal and coequal with the unoriginate father (John 1:1-18), you just have correctly described the basic belief of all Nicene denominations including the Roman Catholic Church.

However because some people deny the Incarnation, the Trinity, the Crucifixion (Docetists were an ancient and vast heresy the members of whom denied Christ had physical flesh at all, whereas Muslims believe that Judas was made to take on the appearance of Christ and was crucified in his place as punishment for his treachery, and also deny that Christ is the Christ, the Messiah, which is obviously a problem, but their beliefs are close enough to Christianity so that the early church classified Islam as an heretical cult rather than a different religion such as Zoroastrianism, which, incidentally, has enough parallels with Judaism that one suspects Zoroaster may have been a failed prophet, for instance if Jonah had compromised his faith with that of the Ninevites) or teach that we can be saved on our own merit, we have the Nicene Creed in its Constantinopolitan format, which ChristianForums provides on our forum’s statement of faith complete with Scripture citations. I shall post it here so you can study it - this is the primary Christian creed and has been since shortly after the Council of Constantinople concluded in 381 AD:

The Nicene Creed​

We believe in (Romans 10:8-10; 1John 4:15)
ONE God, (Deuteronomy 6:4, Ephesians 4:6)
the Father (Matthew 6:9)
Almighty, (Exodus 6:3)
Maker of Heaven and Earth, (Genesis 1:1)
and of all things visible and invisible. (Colossians 1:15-16)
And in ONE Lord Jesus Christ, (Acts 11:17)
the Son of God, (Mathew 14:33; 16:16)
the Only-Begotten, (John 1:18; 3:16)
Begotten of the Father before all ages. (John 1:2)
Light of Light; (Psalm 27:1; John 8:12; Matthew 17:2,5)
True God of True God; (John 17:1-5)
Begotten, not made; (John 1:18)
of one essence with the Father (John 10:30)
by whom all things were made; (Hebrews 1:1-2)
Who for us men and for our salvation (1Timothy 2:4-5)
came down from Heaven, (John 6:33,35)
and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, (Luke 1:35)
and became man. (John 1:14)
And was crucified for us (Mark 15:25; 1Cointhians 15:3)
under Pontius Pilate, (John 19:6)
and suffered, (Mark 8:31)
and was buried. (Luke 23:53; 1Corinthians 15:4)
And the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures. (Luke 24:1 1Corinthians 15:4)
And ascended into Heaven, (Luke 24:51; Acts 1:10)
and sits at the right hand of the Father. (Mark 16:19; Acts 7:55)
And He shall come again with glory (Matthew 24:27)
to judge the living and the dead; (Acts 10:42; 2Timothy 4:1)
whose Kingdom shall have no end. (2 Peter 1:11)
And in the Holy Spirit, (John 14:26)
the Lord, (Acts 5:3-4)
the Giver of Life, (Genesis 1:2)
Who proceeds from the Father; (John 15:26)
Who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; (Matthew 3:16-17)
Who spoke through the prophets. (1 Samuel 19:20 ; Ezekiel 11:5,13) In one, (Matthew 16: 18)
holy, (1 Peter 2:5,9)
catholic*, (Mark 16:15)
and apostolic Church. (Acts 2:42; Ephesians 2:19-22)
I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins**. (Ephesians 4:5; Acts 2:38)
I look for the resurrection of the dead, (John 11:24; 1Corinthians 15:12-49; Hebrews 6:2; Revelation 20:5)
and the life of the world to come. (Mark 10:29-30)
AMEN. (Psalm 106:48)

Notes​

* The word "catholic" (literally, "complete," "universal," or "according to the whole") refers to the universal church of the Lord Jesus Christ and not necessarily or exclusively to any particular visible denomination, institution, or doctrine.

** May be interpreted as baptism is a matter of obedience and not a requirement for salvation or as a regenerating ordinance.

jmldn2 said:

However, to me the Gospel (meaning good news) is that God Almighty Maker of Heaven and Earth sent his only begotten Son to suffer a horrible death (the Passion of Christ movie is succinctly in showing that death) to save us unworthy and sinful misfits of creation and give us another chance!. That is my Gospel

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The Gospel is more than just John 3:16.

@jmldn2, if no denomination challenged the status quo, you would still have no Bible to read in your own language, today.