• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

The sixth seal event of Revelation 6

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
30,881
3,635
Non-dispensationalist
✟456,654.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
The sixth seal event corresponds to Matthew 24:29-30a. Matthew 24:30a is the sign of the Son of man appearing in heaven.

That will cause terror among the wicked on earth. So much so, that they react as described in Revelation 6:15-17.

Then, in Revelation 16:13-16, the beast-king, the false prophet, and Satan will convince the kings of the earth to gather their courage, and gather their armies at Armageddon to prepare to make war on Jesus and His armies of heaven.



the seven seals c.jpg
 

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
16,279
2,707
84
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟387,968.00
Country
New Zealand
Gender
Male
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
The sixth seal event corresponds to Matthew 24:29
That time of distress... refers to the Great Trib; the 3 1/2 year period of punishment of the peoples who have taken the mark of the beast.
The sun will be darkened,....- Happens many times, by many ways.
The moon will not give her light. This one proves your theory wrong. At the SS; the moon will shine bright red.
The stars will fall from the sky, Meteor showers are common.
The celestial powers will be shaken. This will cause the Sign of the Son of Man to appear.

There is no scriptural justification for your belief of the Sixth Seal at the same time as Jesus Returns. That idea is illogical and is a gross misplacing of the Prophesies.
 
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
30,881
3,635
Non-dispensationalist
✟456,654.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
That time of distress... refers to the Great Trib; the 3 1/2 year period of punishment of the peoples who have taken the mark of the beast.
The sun will be darkened,....- Happens many times, by many ways.
The moon will not give her light. This one proves your theory wrong. At the SS; the moon will shine bright red.
The stars will fall from the sky, Meteor showers are common.
The celestial powers will be shaken. This will cause the Sign of the Son of Man to appear.
keras, the moon in normal circumstances gives off a white light. Being red and not white, fulfills the prophecy.

The stars will appear to fall from the sky as the comos is parted and the stars disappear over the horizon,

There is no scriptural justification for your belief of the Sixth Seal at the same time as Jesus Returns. That idea is illogical and is a gross misplacing of the Prophesies.
The Sixth Seal event will take place (begin) on day 2475, 1290 days from when the abomination of desolation is set up on the temple mount.


counrt forward 1290 days paart 5.jpg


keras, learn how to make charts. Doing so, will be to your benefit, in many ways.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
16,279
2,707
84
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟387,968.00
Country
New Zealand
Gender
Male
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
keras, learn how to make charts. Doing so, will be to your benefit, in many ways.
I am quite competent to make charts, as a construction supervisor, They are a tool for the smooth running of the contract.
But your persistent and annoying use of them to promote your ideas and the dipsy theories, has brought then into disrepute.

I have, several times posted a full list of the end times events, in the Biblically correct sequence. Because it doesn't suit you, or most others too, it gets quickly buried. I only stay on the forums in order to present the scriptural truths for those who want to know the reality, not the incredible fables of the deceived and deluded.
the moon in normal circumstances gives off a white light. Being red and not white, fulfills the prophecy.

The stars will appear to fall from the sky as the comos is parted and the stars disappear over the horizon,
Definitive statements like these are easily seen by most people as simply untrue.
The Sixth Seal event will take place (begin) on day 2475, 1290 days from when the abomination of desolation is set up on the temple mount.
The SS, will happen before the final 7 years of this age even starts. This worldwide disaster, Zephaniah 3:8, will set the scene for the One World Govt and for all the Lords faithful peoples to migrate to all of the Holy Land. Jesus will reveal Himself to them. 2 Thess 1:10, Revelation 14:1
 
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
30,881
3,635
Non-dispensationalist
✟456,654.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
I am quite competent to make charts, as a construction supervisor, They are a tool for the smooth running of the contract.
Then post one of the charts you made that shows the 1290 days and 1335 days of Daniel 12:11-12 on it.
 
Upvote 0

tranquil

Newbie
Sep 29, 2011
1,489
163
with Charlie at the Chocolate Factory
✟340,802.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The sixth seal event corresponds to Matthew 24:29-30a. Matthew 24:30a is the sign of the Son of man appearing in heaven.

That will cause terror among the wicked on earth. So much so, that they react as described in Revelation 6:15-17.

Then, in Revelation 16:13-16, the beast-king, the false prophet, and Satan will convince the kings of the earth to gather their courage, and gather their armies at Armageddon to prepare to make war on Jesus and His armies of heaven.



View attachment 381451
This graph is an incorrect mess.

Where is the 'sign of the son of man in heaven' in Revelation 6 or the 6th Seal? Literally nowhere.

Is it in Revelation 12? Yes.

The 'sign of the son of man in heaven' is the 'sign of Emmanuel' from Isaiah 7 and 8. It is one and the same as the sign in heaven of Revelation 12:1-2. This occurs at the 7th Trumpet - which is immediately after the 'tribulation of those days'.

Is it in Rev 6? No.

Which reference of 'sun & moon darkened, stars fall, powers of the heavens shaken' is more likely to be referring to this 'after this tribulation'?

Revelation 6:12-17's sun & moon darkened, etc' OR Revelation 16:10-21's 'sun & moon darkened, stars fall, powers of the heavens shaken'?

This shouldn't be a difficult question...
 
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
30,881
3,635
Non-dispensationalist
✟456,654.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Where is the 'sign of the son of man in heaven' in Revelation 6 or the 6th Seal? Literally nowhere.
In Revelation 6:16-17, the wicked men of the world see Jesus before the throne of God. He will have a sickle in his hand (Revelation 14:14) indicating His intentions to execute wrath, to avenge the deaths of the martyred great tribulation saints in the fifth seal, Revelation 6:9-11.

Revelation 6:
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

In Revelation 6:16-17, the world will see Jesus, sickle in hand, His intentions made clear to avenge the deaths of the great tribulation martyred saints.

Revelation 6:
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Jesus appearance in heaven, sickle in hand will be the Matthew 24:30a sign of the Son of Man appearing in heaven.

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
30,881
3,635
Non-dispensationalist
✟456,654.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Is it in Revelation 12? Yes.

The 'sign of the son of man in heaven' is the 'sign of Emmanuel' from Isaiah 7 and 8. It is one and the same as the sign in heaven of Revelation 12:1-2. This occurs at the 7th Trumpet - which is immediately after the 'tribulation of those days'.
Revelation 12:1-2 was vision presented in heaven about Israel giving birth to Jesus.

Differently, the sign of the Son of man appearing in heaven in Matthew 24:30a will be at the end of the seven years.

1784223722347.png
 
Upvote 0

tranquil

Newbie
Sep 29, 2011
1,489
163
with Charlie at the Chocolate Factory
✟340,802.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
In Revelation 6:16-17, the wicked men of the world see Jesus before the throne of God. He will have a sickle in his hand (Revelation 14:14) indicating His intentions to execute wrath, to avenge the deaths of the martyred great tribulation saints in the fifth seal, Revelation 6:9-11.

Revelation 6:
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

In Revelation 6:16-17, the world will see Jesus, sickle in hand, His intentions made clear to avenge the deaths of the great tribulation martyred saints.

Revelation 6:
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Jesus appearance in heaven, sickle in hand will be the Matthew 24:30a sign of the Son of Man appearing in heaven.

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Jesus with a sickle in his hand (in Rev 14, no less) is not a sign.

Rev 12:1-2 is literally a 'sign'.

1And a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.

Isaiah 7:
14Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin will be with child and give birth to a son, and will call Him Immanuel.f 15By the time He knows enough to reject evil and choose good, He will be eating curds and honey. 16For before the boy knows enough to reject evil and choose good, the land of the two kings you dread will be laid waste.​
17The LORD will bring on you and on your people and on the house of your father a time unlike any since the day Ephraim separated from Judah—He will bring the king of Assyria.” 18On that day the LORD will whistle to the flies at the farthest streams of the Nile and to the bees in the land of Assyria. 19And they will all come and settle in the steep ravines and clefts of the rocks, in all the thornbushes and watering holes.​
20On that day the Lord will use a razor hired from beyond the Euphrates—the king of Assyria—to shave your head and the hair of your legs, and to remove your beard as well. 21On that day a man will raise a young cow and two sheep, 22and from the abundance of milk they give, he will eat curds; for all who remain in the land will eat curds and honey.​
23And on that day, in every place that had a thousand vines worth a thousand shekels of silver,h only briers and thorns will be found. 24Men will go there with bow and arrow, for the land will be covered with briers and thorns. 25For fear of the briers and thorns, you will no longer traverse the hills once tilled by the hoe; they will become places for oxen to graze and sheep to trample.​

Here is Revelation 14

14Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and seated on the cloud one like a son of man, with a golden crown on his head, and a sharp sickle in his hand. 15And another angel came out of the temple, calling with a loud voice to him who sat on the cloud, “Put in your sickle, and reap, for the hour to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is fully ripe.” 16So he who sat on the cloud swung his sickle across the earth, and the earth was reaped.​
17Then another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle. 18And another angel came out from the altar, the angel who has authority over the fire, and he called with a loud voice to the one who had the sharp sickle, “Put in your sickle and gather the clusters from the vine of the earth, for its grapes are ripe.” 19So the angel swung his sickle across the earth and gathered the grape harvest of the earth and threw it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.​
No sign whatsoever!

No sign in Rev 6. No sign in Rev 14.
 
Upvote 0

tranquil

Newbie
Sep 29, 2011
1,489
163
with Charlie at the Chocolate Factory
✟340,802.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
In Revelation 6:16-17, the wicked men of the world see Jesus before the throne of God. He will have a sickle in his hand (Revelation 14:14) indicating His intentions to execute wrath, to avenge the deaths of the martyred great tribulation saints in the fifth seal, Revelation 6:9-11.

Revelation 6:
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

In Revelation 6:16-17, the world will see Jesus, sickle in hand, His intentions made clear to avenge the deaths of the great tribulation martyred saints.

Revelation 6:
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Jesus appearance in heaven, sickle in hand will be the Matthew 24:30a sign of the Son of Man appearing in heaven.

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
If you would take the time to actually read Isaiah 7 and 8, you might see that the imagery is the exact same as in Revelation 14

Isaiah 7:

14Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin will be with child and give birth to a son, and will call Him Immanuel.f 15By the time He knows enough to reject evil and choose good, He will be eating curds and honey. 16For before the boy knows enough to reject evil and choose good, the land of the two kings you dread will be laid waste.​
17The LORD will bring on you and on your people and on the house of your father a time unlike any since the day Ephraim separated from Judah—He will bring the king of Assyria.” 18On that day the LORD will whistle to the flies at the farthest streams of the Nile and to the bees in the land of Assyria. 19And they will all come and settle in the steep ravines and clefts of the rocks, in all the thornbushes and watering holes.​
20On that day the Lord will use a razor hired from beyond the Euphrates—the king of Assyria—to shave your head and the hair of your legs, and to remove your beard as well. 21On that day a man will raise a young cow and two sheep, 22and from the abundance of milk they give, he will eat curds; for all who remain in the land will eat curds and honey.​
23And on that day, in every place that had a thousand vines worth a thousand shekels of silver,h only briers and thorns will be found. 24Men will go there with bow and arrow, for the land will be covered with briers and thorns. 25For fear of the briers and thorns, you will no longer traverse the hills once tilled by the hoe; they will become places for oxen to graze and sheep to trample.​

Here is Revelation 14

14Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and seated on the cloud one like a son of man, with a golden crown on his head, and a sharp sickle in his hand. 15And another angel came out of the temple, calling with a loud voice to him who sat on the cloud, “Put in your sickle, and reap, for the hour to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is fully ripe.” 16So he who sat on the cloud swung his sickle across the earth, and the earth was reaped.
17Then another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle. 18And another angel came out from the altar, the angel who has authority over the fire, and he called with a loud voice to the one who had the sharp sickle, “Put in your sickle and gather the clusters from the vine of the earth, for its grapes are ripe.19So the angel swung his sickle across the earth and gathered the grape harvest of the earth and threw it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.​

The 'razor' in Isaiah 7 is Rev 14's harvest sickle. The lord 'hires a razor' - the Lord (who has a razor) hires someone with a 'razor' (a sickle) to 'harvest' (to kill) Ephraim (who is unfaithful) to the benefit of faithful 'Judah' who then gets the benefits of Ephraim's land being untended - because they are killed.
 
Upvote 0

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
16,279
2,707
84
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟387,968.00
Country
New Zealand
Gender
Male
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Then post one of the charts you made that shows the 1290 days and 1335 days of Daniel 12:11-12 on it.
I don't need to waste space with a scribbled diagram.
It is obvious to any thinking person that the extra days of Daniel will come after Jesus Returns. There is exactly 1260 days from the AoD at the mid point of the final 7 years, to when Jesus Returns, - THEN: 30 days to the feast of Atonement and 75 days to Hanukkah.

Any theory, chart or dreams that the extra 30 and 75 days fit before Jesus Returns, are wrong and conflict with scripture.
Have the moral fortitude to change your beliefs when the truth is presented. Especially your peculiar and impossible 'anytime rapture".
 
Upvote 0

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
16,279
2,707
84
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟387,968.00
Country
New Zealand
Gender
Male
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
the Lord (who has a razor) hires someone with a 'razor' (a sickle) to 'harvest' (to kill) Ephraim (who is unfaithful) to the benefit of faithful 'Judah' who then gets the benefits of Ephraim's land being untended - because they are killed.
Not killed at all. Exiled; now to all places on earth. From where they will regather back to all of the Holy Land. Isaiah 11:11 & 16, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Romans 9:24-26....in the very same place as ancient Israel was.
Soon after the Sixth Seal event has cleared and cleansed all that area. Deuteronomy 32:43, Jeremiah 9:10b-11 & 12:14
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
30,881
3,635
Non-dispensationalist
✟456,654.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
I don't need to waste space with a scribbled diagram.
keras, I have not seen a single chart made by you. I don't think you know how to use a computer program to make a chart.
 
Upvote 0

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
16,279
2,707
84
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟387,968.00
Country
New Zealand
Gender
Male
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
keras, I have not seen a single chart made by you. I don't think you know how to use a computer program to make a chart.
In this, you are right.
I haven't thought it necessary to find out how to make charts, as just a listed sequence of events is perfectly easy to follow and understand.
Unless of course; people are locked into their delusions and blinded to the truths of Prophecy. Isaiah 29:9-11 & 42:18-20
 
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
30,881
3,635
Non-dispensationalist
✟456,654.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
I haven't thought it necessary to find out how to make charts, as just a listed sequence of events is perfectly easy to follow and understand.
Listed sequence of events does not show events that take place parallel in time.
 
Upvote 0

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
16,279
2,707
84
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟387,968.00
Country
New Zealand
Gender
Male
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Listed sequence of events does not show events that take place parallel in time.
The only parallel event I can think of, is Armageddon when Jesus Returns.
The rest of Revelations story is sequential; the Seals 1 to 5, already in effect. Seal 6 to happen very soon and Seal 7 tells us there will be a time gap from then until the Return; of about 15 - 20 years.
When the leader of the newly formed One World Govt comes to Jerusalem and makes a peace treaty with Gods peoples, then the final 7 years of this age starts. The 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls will punish those who took the Mark of the beast, during the second half, the last 1260 days.

It is the worst thing anyone can do, to conflate, combine, mix up and to think the Seals are open but not actioned. The Trumpets and Bowls, are all different happenings; culminating with the Seventh Bowl of Armageddon.

As usual, you fail to address the proofs I gave about the 1290 & 1335 days of Daniel 12, being fulfilled after Jesus Returns.
Plus many other issues which you have to ignore, as you have no scriptural rebuttal.
 
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
30,881
3,635
Non-dispensationalist
✟456,654.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
The only parallel event I can think of, is Armageddon when Jesus Returns.

keras, the 1290 days and the 1335 days run parallel each other..


1784273585238.png
 
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
30,881
3,635
Non-dispensationalist
✟456,654.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
As usual, you fail to address the proofs I gave about the 1290 & 1335 days of Daniel 12, being fulfilled after Jesus Returns.
Plus many other issues which you have to ignore, as you have no scriptural rebuttal.
keras, you did not give any proofs. You made a statement based on guesswork of the calendar day that Jesus returns. There is no text in the bible of the calendar day (nor year) of Jesus's return. Also, keras, if knew the calendar day of Jesus's return, then we would also know the calendar day that the 7 years begin.

You wrote...
"There is exactly 1260 days from the AoD at the mid point of the final 7 years, to when Jesus Returns, - THEN: 30 days to the feast of Atonement and 75 days to Hanukkah."

Also, Daniel 9:27 does not say the AoD will be set up at the exact midpoint of the week (7 years) - but in the midst of the week (7 years).

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. kjv
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
30,881
3,635
Non-dispensationalist
✟456,654.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
keras, learn how to make timeline charts using a computer program - like Corel Paintshop Pro.

Make your version of this chart, for example. You disagree this chart's placement of the 1260 days of the two witnesses.



15 timeframes chrt.jpg
 
Upvote 0

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
16,279
2,707
84
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟387,968.00
Country
New Zealand
Gender
Male
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
keras, the 1290 days and the 1335 days run parallel each other..
I agree. The 1260, 1290 and 1335 days, ALL commence at the mid point of the 7 years. [mid and midst are the same. NOT 30 or 75 days before]
keras, you did not give any proofs.
I did. those extra days fit the fulfilment of Feast days; AFTER Jesus Returns.
Christian Bible believers will be able to calculate the Day Jesus will Return, when the peace treaty is signed. Daniel 9:27 - 2520 days later.
keras, learn how to make timeline charts
I can think of a few inappropriate childish epithets of what you can do.
 
Upvote 0