God did not create from nothing

2PhiloVoid said:

You just can't help yourself, can you? You're doing it again---implying a deficiency of faith of those fellow Christians who disagree with you

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I havn't mentioned myself once and this isnt about me. - your lack of faith in the Bible - specifically Moses....the one person Jesus mentioned that you should believe... Your deficiency (I'm not implying) of faith is due to your disagreeance with the Bible - not disagreeance with me.

2PhiloVoid said:

-----all while toting along your own unsupported assumptions and biblical interpretive approach that no one has to agree to in order to either be Christian or by which to 'believe' the variety of contents of the Bible.

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I don't own any assumptions....quite the opposite. Most call my Biblical interpretive as being literal.

2PhiloVoid said:

But do I 'believe' in a 6 day creation that took place 6,000 years ago. No, but I 'believe' that Moses, Jesus and St. Peter and Paul believed it.

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I appreciate that comment - I'm not sure I've seen anyone here post that (that Moses, Jesus, Peter, and Paul believed this). The obvious thought I have is - at least 3 of these men talked to God directly. I've stated several times that my core message on these threads is that Creation took place 6000 years ago and took 6 days. These are not ideas of mine but of the Bible. Doesn't it make you pause at all that your views differ from that these great men and the core to Christianity...and who spoke to God - one I consider God? Again - Jesus specifically pointed out those who don't believe in Creation and the Flood have a deficiency of faith. So you feeling that should pause you.

2PhiloVoid said:

But as with each and every name in the Bible, every event referred to, each of these is open to different historiographical and archaeological scholarly considerations. They're not all the same and to think otherwise is ignorant at best and disingenuous at worst.

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I think we are beginning to see the issue with your Humanistic studies. They have not served you well. They have caused you to doubt Moses!

dlamberth said:

Regarding the lack of evidence for "The Flood", the kinds of geological things I'd look for are not marine creatures sitting on mountain tops that were pushed up by colliding contents. What I want to see are things like the giant ripple marks left behind by the rushing water being found across all of the Earth. Or the layering of fine sediments at the same exact stratigraphic level stretchering across the whole of the earth. Or the plant and tree debris and mat fields left behind, again at the exact same stratigraphic level across the whole of the Earth. Or the erratics left behind as the rushing water moved the larger rocks around. Or the huge gravel sheets of rounded rocks being found at the same exact stratigraphic level across the whole of the Earth. Or giant channeled scablands fund on every continent. Or across the Earth very high dry falls and coulees excavated by the rushing water. Or strand lines and high water marks on every hillside that exist on this planet.

These are some of the very basic geology 101 things one looks for in ancient floods. And none of which can be found when looking for evidence of "The Flood". The evidence of that magnitude of flood waters simply does not exist.

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If showing you that mountains were under water and that deserts were underwater, which I can show you, is not evidence (I'm not saying proof - but simply evidence) of a Flood....then nothing I show you will be evidence.

Platte said:

If showing you that mountains were under water and that deserts were underwater, which I can show you, is not evidence (I'm not saying proof - but simply evidence) of a Flood....then nothing I show you will be evidence.

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There's a huge difference between places being underwater and mountains uplifting from areas that were originally underwater because of a shift in plate tectonics to the whole being underwater up to the highest mountains because of 40 days and nights of rain.

Platte said:

I havn't mentioned myself once and this isnt about me. - your lack of faith in the Bible - specifically Moses....the one person Jesus mentioned that you should believe... Your deficiency (I'm not implying) of faith is due to your disagreeance with the Bible - not disagreeance with me.

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I don't have a "lack of faith in Moses." What I have is a different historiographical and theological understanding than you do about what what the Bible is, about what Divine Inspiration is and how it may work.

Platte said:

I don't own any assumptions....quite the opposite. Most call my Biblical interpretive as being literal.

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There are also assumptions that go into maintaining and using a so-called "literal" reading of the Bible. Don't kid yourself in thinking that there aren't any.

Platte said:

I appreciate that comment - I'm not sure I've seen anyone here post that (that Moses, Jesus, Peter, and Paul believed this).

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I didn't say that you did post that. I added it in to let you know that it is what I think.

Platte said:

The obvious thought I have is - at least 3 of these men talked to God directly. I've stated several times that my core message on these threads is that Creation took place 6000 years ago and took 6 days. These are not ideas of mine but of the Bible. Doesn't it make you pause at all that your views differ from that these great men and the core to Christianity...and who spoke to God - one I consider God? Again - Jesus specifically pointed out those who don't believe in Creation and the Flood have a deficiency of faith. So you feeling that should pause you.

I think we are beginning to see the issue with your Humanistic studies. They have not served you well. They have caused you to doubt Moses!

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What you don't seem to be understanding is that when I tell you how or what or why I believe what I do about the Bible, I'm not implying that this is how you should believe the Bible. I'm not challenging you on that.

What I am challenging is your insistence that where the Bible is concerned, that in order to believe it and have faith in Christ, I MUST rely on your Presuppositional epistemic position. Moreover, you keeping pressing your point without taking much (if any) initiative to understand my perspective.

If you want to believe in a 6 day creation that took place 6,000 years ago, go ahead. All I care about is how you use that belief in relating to others.

Keep in mind, I have two degrees behind me, as well as a year in Bible College, so I'm not prone to simply pulling things out my own rear or simply accepting what other, fellow Christians tell me because they claim to have "so much faith" and a correct reading of the Bible.

Platte said:

If showing you that mountains were under water and that deserts were underwater, which I can show you, is not evidence (I'm not saying proof - but simply evidence) of a Flood....then nothing I show you will be evidence.

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I'm wondering if you even read what I wrote. It doesn't look like it. If you could, please address those points I brought up.

Warden_of_the_Storm said:

Unless you've got anything else next to Cliff's of Dover.

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Meandering rivers

Warden_of_the_Storm said:

Though I honestly cannot remember if you say the Grand Canyon is because of the Flood or Peleg.

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Peleg

Warden_of_the_Storm said:

Or was that Dad?

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I don't think it was Dad, either.

dad said:

I do not have beliefs on the grand canyon persay. I find the post flood draining of Walt Brown the most plausible so far, in conjunction, of course with the actual state past!

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AV1611VET said:

I don't think it was Dad, either.

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You crack me up sometimes with the past history you bring up. I have no idea how you keep track of this stuff. Dad was a long time ago. I do miss him.

AV1611VET said:

Meandering rivers

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Yes, you like to trot it out. Doesn't mean it works.

AV1611VET said:

Peleg

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Got it.

AV1611VET said:

I don't think it was Dad, either.

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I wish this site's search function was better, because I don't want to try and cross reference all the results from Dad of Peleg and Grand Canyon together to find if he did say it or not. I know he said SOMETHING about the two being connected, but what exactly, I don't recall.