With New Momentum, Republican States Push Broader Limits for Trans Americans

MrMoe · Mar 1, 2026

Aryeh Jay said:
That's right! A paramedic can't check airway or stop bleeding unless they know what junk the patient has.

I asked AI if this statement contained any logical fallacies. I was excepted one. It found four.

Yes — that reply is using multiple logical fallacies and rhetorical distortions.

Let’s break it down.

1 Straw Man Fallacy

The original statement says:

“Relying on a gender marker can lead to diagnostic errors.”

This argues that over-reliance on ID gender markers can sometimes mislead clinical decisions.

The reply exaggerates that into:

“A paramedic can't check airway or stop bleeding unless they know what junk the patient has.”

That misrepresents the original claim as saying paramedics can’t perform basic lifesaving care without knowing genital anatomy.

The original statement never said that — so this is a straw man (misrepresenting an argument to make it easier to mock).

2 Reductio ad Absurdum (misused / sarcastic form)

The reply uses sarcasm to push the argument to an absurd extreme:

Airway and bleeding control are obviously unrelated to sex markers.
So the reply implies the original concern is ridiculous.

But emergency medicine involves more than airway and bleeding:

Medication dosing
Differential diagnosis (e.g., ectopic pregnancy, prostate issues)
Hormone therapy considerations
Surgical history

So reducing the issue to “junk” is intentionally oversimplifying.

3 False Dichotomy (implicit)

It implies:

Either sex markers are essential for basic care
or
The concern is absurd.

In reality:

Some emergency interventions don’t require sex info.
Some clinical decisions can be influenced by anatomy, hormones, or medical history.
The real issue is how much weight to give an ID marker when other information may be more reliable.

4 Loaded Language / Appeal to Ridicule

Using the phrase:

“what junk the patient has”

is emotionally loaded and mocking. That’s not a logical argument — it’s rhetorical ridicule meant to dismiss the concern rather than address it.

Aryeh Jay · Mar 1, 2026

MrMoe said:
I asked AI if this statement contained any logical fallacies. I was excepted one. It found four.

Yes — that reply is using multiple logical fallacies and rhetorical distortions.

Let’s break it down.

1 Straw Man Fallacy
The original statement says:

This argues that over-reliance on ID gender markers can sometimes mislead clinical decisions.

The reply exaggerates that into:

That misrepresents the original claim as saying paramedics can’t perform basic lifesaving care without knowing genital anatomy.

The original statement never said that — so this is a straw man (misrepresenting an argument to make it easier to mock).

2 Reductio ad Absurdum (misused / sarcastic form)
The reply uses sarcasm to push the argument to an absurd extreme:

Airway and bleeding control are obviously unrelated to sex markers.

So the reply implies the original concern is ridiculous.

But emergency medicine involves more than airway and bleeding:

Medication dosing

Differential diagnosis (e.g., ectopic pregnancy, prostate issues)

Hormone therapy considerations

Surgical history

So reducing the issue to “junk” is intentionally oversimplifying.

3 False Dichotomy (implicit)
It implies:

Either sex markers are essential for basic care
or

The concern is absurd.

In reality:

Some emergency interventions don’t require sex info.

Some clinical decisions can be influenced by anatomy, hormones, or medical history.

The real issue is how much weight to give an ID marker when other information may be more reliable.

4 Loaded Language / Appeal to Ridicule
Using the phrase:

is emotionally loaded and mocking. That’s not a logical argument — it’s rhetorical ridicule meant to dismiss the concern rather than address it.

It's always nice to have a computer do your thinking for you

Aryeh Jay · Mar 1, 2026

I know enough with out relying on a computer to tell me that paramedics don't do that type of diagnosis.

Stopped_lurking · Mar 1, 2026

MrMoe said:
Do apparently a very minor problem (if any).

The ones impacted doesn't seem to feel that it is a minor problem. Pretty sure that I saw a mention of a lawsuit (yes, https://www.reuters.com/legal/gover...r-new-transgender-id-bathroom-law-2026-02-27/)

Who complained before? Earlier you argued that it might have been a problem using a gender marker instead of a sex marker, you haven't shown that it actually was a problem.

FireDragon76 · Mar 2, 2026

Aryeh Jay said:
I know enough with out relying on a computer to tell me that paramedics don't do that type of diagnosis.

And rightly so.

Most healthcare providers find the medicalization of transphobia to be genuinely horrifying. They are used to dealing with anatomical anomalies, not dehumanizing people.

MrMoe · Mar 3, 2026

Aryeh Jay said:
It's always nice to have a computer do your thinking for you

Yes it is. Calculators for example.

MrMoe · Mar 3, 2026

Aryeh Jay said:
I know enough with out relying on a computer to tell me that paramedics don't do that type of diagnosis.

Don’t do what type of diagnosis?

MrMoe · Mar 3, 2026

Stopped_lurking said:
The ones impacted doesn't seem to feel that it is a minor problem. Pretty sure that I saw a mention of a lawsuit (yes, https://www.reuters.com/legal/gover...r-new-transgender-id-bathroom-law-2026-02-27/)

Two trans people out of around 22,000 trans people living in Kansas. So a very minor problem.

Stopped_lurking said:
Who complained before? Earlier you argued that it might have been a problem using a gender marker instead of a sex marker, you haven't shown that it actually was a problem.

I did. I gave you examples.

Stopped_lurking · Mar 4, 2026

MrMoe said:
Two trans people out of around 22,000 trans people living in Kansas. So a very minor problem.

The number of police interactions in Kansas per year are what? 100000 perhaps. The number of paramedic interactions per year are, 350000? Over 20 years, you should have have a 800-1000 actual examples, if things would have a comparable rate.

I just googled for the estimates, I would be happy for any correction of them or my off the cuff calculations.

MrMoe said:
I did. I gave you examples.

Are you talking about your post in post #36? That is you speculating, not showing any actual problems or examples.

MrMoe · Mar 5, 2026

Stopped_lurking said:
The number of police interactions in Kansas per year are what? 100000 perhaps. The number of paramedic interactions per year are, 350000? Over 20 years, you should have have a 800-1000 actual examples, if things would have a comparable rate.

I just googled for the estimates, I would be happy for any correction of them or my off the cuff calculations.

Did you google if Kansas police systematically record whether a person is transgender?

Stopped_lurking said:
Are you talking about your post in post #36? That is you speculating, not showing any actual problems or examples.

Here you go:

“Kobach said it is harder to arrest criminals without this law. He said he’s spoken with police who said people with warrants have tried to change their appearance to avoid arrest. Bob Stuart, executive officer at the Kansas Bureau of Investigation, agreed with Kobach. He said arrests are harder, as is determining where someone should be put in correctional facilities.”

Bill would stop transgender Kansans from changing sex on drivers licenses, birth certificates

A previous law faced legal troubles, and the courts sided with Democrats to allow gender marker changes.

thebeaconnews.org

The case with the two trans people that claim the law violates their rights to equality, due process and privacy under the state constitution has been proven yet. That means so far you have not shown any actual problems.

Stopped_lurking · Mar 6, 2026

MrMoe said:
Did you google if Kansas police systematically record whether a person is transgender?

If they don't, how can Kobach make any claims at all?

MrMoe said:
Here you go:

“Kobach said it is harder to arrest criminals without this law. He said he’s spoken with police who said people with warrants have tried to change their appearance to avoid arrest. Bob Stuart, executive officer at the Kansas Bureau of Investigation, agreed with Kobach. He said arrests are harder, as is determining where someone should be put in correctional facilities.”

Bill would stop transgender Kansans from changing sex on drivers licenses, birth certificates

A previous law faced legal troubles, and the courts sided with Democrats to allow gender marker changes.

thebeaconnews.org

Thank you. However, this statement is lacking numbers. Kobach and Stuart also fails to describe how any law would actually stop anyone from changing their appearance to avoid arrest (which is not forbidden by any law, and what Kobach actually claimed according to the article) or why changing the law it would make it easier to arrest criminals.

And I am not the only one that caught that no data was provided by Kobach.

From the same article.
"The Court of Appeals also agreed with Democrats and ruled that Kobach failed to provide any evidence that driver’s licenses changes are causing problems."

As is pointed out in the article, changing it to a sex marker creates mismatches between gender expression and the sex marker instead.

So we have one (or two) claims in a background of a million interactions, if 1/10000 is a very minor problem according to you then this is infinitesmal.

MrMoe said:
The case with the two trans people that claim the law violates their rights to equality, due process and privacy under the state constitution has been proven yet. That means so far you have not shown any actual problems.

I didn't say it was unlawful, I said that they saw it like they have a problem. Kobach or Stuart didn't point out any court case when it had made any difference or provide any evidence to the court, can I then discard their statements?

MrMoe · Mar 7, 2026

Stopped_lurking said:
If they don't, how can Kobach make any claims at all?

Because he heard it from the source (police). Which means the problem exists in some capacity.

Stopped_lurking said:
Thank you. However, this statement is lacking numbers. Kobach and Stuart also fails to describe how any law would actually stop anyone from changing their appearance to avoid arrest (which is not forbidden by any law, and what Kobach actually claimed according to the article) or why changing the law it would make it easier to arrest criminals.

And I am not the only one that caught that no data was provided by Kobach.

From the same article.
"The Court of Appeals also agreed with Democrats and ruled that Kobach failed to provide any evidence that driver’s licenses changes are causing problems."

As is pointed out in the article, changing it to a sex marker creates mismatches between gender expression and the sex marker instead.

So we have one (or two) claims in a background of a million interactions, if 1/10000 is a very minor problem according to you then this is infinitesmal.

Since we don’t have any stats, that one (or two) claims in a million interactions is just an assumption of yours.

Is 1/10000 is a very minor problem according to you?

Stopped_lurking said:
I didn't say it was unlawful, I said that they saw it like they have a problem. Kobach or Stuart didn't point out any court case when it had made any difference or provide any evidence to the court, can I then discard their statements?

Yes you can. Since no evidence for the claim that this change is harming trans people has been shown can I discard it?

Stopped_lurking · Mar 7, 2026

MrMoe said:
Because he heard it from the source (police). Which means the problem exists in some capacity.

Did the police officers say it somewhere? It is just hearsay, he said it in his role as attorney general not as a witness. The court didn't think it was evidenced.

MrMoe said:
Since we don’t have any stats, that one (or two) claims in a million interactions is just an assumption of yours.

Sure it could be zero. Kobach's claim wasn't really connected to trans people from the article. From the article: "He said he’s spoken with police who said people with warrants have tried to change their appearance to avoid arrest."

I live in a place were it has been possible to change legal sex since 1972, including on drivers licenses and it is unproblematic. The idea that Kansans are so special that they are unable to manage that seems very strange to me. If this was an actual problem in Kansas why haven't someone tabulated all the times it has created a problem in the last 20 years? If there were any problems, how did they resolve the problems during the last 20 years?

MrMoe said:
Is 1/10000 is a very minor problem according to you?

No and neither is willingly and needlessly creating a problem for 1 in 10000 according to me.

MrMoe said:
Yes you can. Since no evidence for the claim that this change is harming trans people has been shown can I discard it?

No, it did harm everyone who got their license revoked. How is getting your license revoked not a problem? It is also creating an extra cost (or did the state offer to pay for it?) and someone have complained about it.

Apparently Kansas officials have been been rather bad at getting letters informing of the change out as well.

"As of February 26, the Department of Revenue said it had issued only 300 license invalidation notices so far, though the agency has estimated about 1,700 people will be affected. Those who received their letters late Wednesday or Thursday could not legally drive to the department office to change their license.

“I had to have a friend drive me because it warned us of penalties,” Kirchstein said.

Caption: Siobhan Kirchstein stands at a Kansas DMV counter where she surrendered her driver's license on Thursday, February 26.

Typically, new laws in Kansas go into effect on July 1, when the annual statute book is published. But SB 244 was written so it would take effect as soon as it was published in the Kansas Register, which updates every Thursday.

Isaac Johnson, a trans activist with the local Trans Lawrence Coalition, said members of the advocacy group have said they were unable to legally drive to work once the law suddenly went into effect.

“You didn’t even give me a chance to comply with your law to begin with, and now you’re threatening me with legal action if you catch me driving to the DMV to update my driver’s license?” Johnson said in frustration. “That’s what’s been really shocking.”"

https://edition.cnn.com/2026/03/05/us/kansas-trans-drivers-license-bathroom-law

Not being able to drive to work is a problem. Even though you find that harm small, it is still there.

MrMoe · Mar 9, 2026

Stopped_lurking said:
Did the police officers say it somewhere? It is just hearsay, he said it in his role as attorney general not as a witness. The court didn't think it was evidenced.

They said it to Kobach. Do you believe they are lying?

Stopped_lurking said:
Sure it could be zero. Kobach's claim wasn't really connected to trans people from the article. From the article: "He said he’s spoken with police who said people with warrants have tried to change their appearance to avoid arrest."

It’s obviously not zero according to the police who told Kobach.

Stopped_lurking said:
I live in a place were it has been possible to change legal sex since 1972, including on drivers licenses and it is unproblematic. The idea that Kansans are so special that they are unable to manage that seems very strange to me. If this was an actual problem in Kansas why haven't someone tabulated all the times it has created a problem in the last 20 years? If there were any problems, how did they resolve the problems during the last 20 years?

Anecdotal evidence.

Stopped_lurking said:
No and neither is willingly and needlessly creating a problem for 1 in 10000 according to me.

Neither is willingly and needlessly creating a problem for police.

Stopped_lurking said:
No, it did harm everyone who got their license revoked. How is getting your license revoked not a problem? It is also creating an extra cost (or did the state offer to pay for it?) and someone have complained about it.

Apparently Kansas officials have been been rather bad at getting letters informing of the change out as well.

"As of February 26, the Department of Revenue said it had issued only 300 license invalidation notices so far, though the agency has estimated about 1,700 people will be affected. Those who received their letters late Wednesday or Thursday could not legally drive to the department office to change their license.

“I had to have a friend drive me because it warned us of penalties,” Kirchstein said.

Caption: Siobhan Kirchstein stands at a Kansas DMV counter where she surrendered her driver's license on Thursday, February 26.

Typically, new laws in Kansas go into effect on July 1, when the annual statute book is published. But SB 244 was written so it would take effect as soon as it was published in the Kansas Register, which updates every Thursday.

Isaac Johnson, a trans activist with the local Trans Lawrence Coalition, said members of the advocacy group have said they were unable to legally drive to work once the law suddenly went into effect.

“You didn’t even give me a chance to comply with your law to begin with, and now you’re threatening me with legal action if you catch me driving to the DMV to update my driver’s license?” Johnson said in frustration. “That’s what’s been really shocking.”"

https://edition.cnn.com/2026/03/05/us/kansas-trans-drivers-license-bathroom-law

Not being able to drive to work is a problem. Even though you find that harm small, it is still there.

No, it’s not a problem unless people make it one. Everyone has to renew their drivers license at some point.

Stopped_lurking · Mar 9, 2026

MrMoe said:
They said it to Kobach. Do you believe they are lying?

Who are they? I don't even know if they exist, much less what they said or what Kobach potentially misunderstood if they exist and actually said anything. Why didn't Kobach show them to the court then? If he can't actually point to them, why should we believe him? The court didn't believe his assertion.

MrMoe said:
It’s obviously not zero according to the police who told Kobach.

Who was it that said what to Kobach? His claim in the article didn't even have anything to do with trans people.

MrMoe said:
Anecdotal evidence.

What do you mean?

Stopped_lurking said:
I live in a place were it has been possible to change legal sex since 1972, including on drivers licenses and it is unproblematic.

Is this the part which you mean is anecdotal evidence? If so disregard it, if you so please.

Stopped_lurking said:
The idea that Kansans are so special that they are unable to manage that seems very strange to me. If this was an actual problem in Kansas why haven't someone tabulated all the times it has created a problem in the last 20 years? If there were any problems, how did they resolve the problems during the last 20 years?

I'm still interested in the answer to these questions though. Kobach was the one trying to prove that it was a problem for the police, and he failed.

MrMoe said:
Neither is willingly and needlessly creating a problem for police.

Whether creating a problem for the police is a very minor problem depends on the frequency of it occurring according to me. Until recently it was a gender marker on every drivers license in Kansas. If it often created problems for the police , they could just point it out.

MrMoe said:
No, it’s not a problem unless people make it one. Everyone has to renew their drivers license at some point.

That was not what was under discussion. Not being able to drive to work is a problem. Getting your license revoked before you can go to the DMV is a problem. Renewing it every 6 years is not a problem.

essentialsaltes · Jun 23, 2026

Stopped_lurking said:
https://www.nytimes.com/2026/02/18/us/republican-states-transgender-rights-restrictions.html

It seems like Kansas is going to make driver's licenses for trans holders invalid, and have to re-issue them with a gender marker of the birth sex.

She Changed Her ID to Comply with Kansas’ New Anti-Trans Law. Now, the State is Trying to Put Her in Jail for Having an 'Inaccurate' License.

Update 11:25 a.m.: Good news: the charge against Ripper has been dismissed by the county prosecutor! The original story, which details the case itself, has been preserved below. Regardless of the outcome, it’s worth a read.

On May 5th, Ripper was driving home from work in the rain. Because it was sunny, her car’s headlights had automatically turned off. That caught the attention of a cop, and she was pulled over.

“After seeing my license, he spent like 10 minutes questioning me on if my license was real before I explained to him that I am a transgender woman,” Ripper said. “It has to say ‘M’ legally.”

“He just awkwardly gave it back to me and sent me on my way with a verbal warning,” she added. Ripper maintains that she wasn’t issued a citation of any kind.

But yesterday, she received a notice in the mail that she had failed to appear before her county’s court for an arraignment.

Her charge? Operating a motor vehicle without a valid license, a class B misdemeanor that carries 6 months of jail time and/or a $1,000 fine, as well as a permanent criminal record.

ThatRobGuy · Jun 23, 2026

Stopped_lurking said:
https://www.nytimes.com/2026/02/18/us/republican-states-transgender-rights-restrictions.html
It seems like Kansas is going to make driver's licenses for trans holders invalid, and have to re-issue them with a gender marker of the birth sex.
Why is it important what gender marker is on a driver's license?

Even given that, why not just change it when it is renewed the next time?

Typically, personally identifying characteristics are on there for LEO and procedural purposes.

If I decided tomorrow that I've been living a lie for these last 40+ years, and am actually a woman (and started modifying my appearance in a way where I no longer looked anything like what was on my license), I wouldn't want to wait another 3 years to get a revised license correct?

A traffic stop where my license looks like I do today, and then I'm sitting there in the car 30lbs lighter with double-d cups and long blonde hair is going to lead to a rather problematic exchange with the police the police officer is it not?

The very notion of "gender is a spectrum" creates some challenges in this area. Especially so for people identifying as genderfluid, where their gender identity can change regularly.

That's why it makes more sense to anchor that particular identifying characteristic to sex, which can't be changed.

Stopped_lurking · Jun 23, 2026

ThatRobGuy said:
Typically, personally identifying characteristics are on there for LEO and procedural purposes.

But sex is not an identifying characteristic, in a visual inspection.

ThatRobGuy said:
If I decided tomorrow that I've been living a lie for these last 40+ years, and am actually a woman (and started modifying my appearance in a way where I no longer looked anything like what was on my license), I wouldn't want to wait another 3 years to get a revised license correct?

Don't know, but requiring it to be changed for no gain seem cruel. If people want to change it by themselves beforehand, they can do it.

ThatRobGuy said:
A traffic stop where my license looks like I do today, and then I'm sitting there in the car 30lbs lighter with double-d cups and long blonde hair is going to lead to a rather problematic exchange with the police the police officer is it not?

Which is why sex is a non-informative marker on a driver's license, but gender is not. Also, others manage to deal with it, historically it has been dealt with in Kansas. So it can't be that problematic.

ThatRobGuy said:
The very notion of "gender is a spectrum" creates some challenges in this area. Especially so for people identifying as genderfluid, where their gender identity can change regularly.

I'm pretty sure most genderfluid people can realise if they might be confusing a third party and are ok with trying to explain the situation.

ThatRobGuy said:
That's why it makes more sense to anchor that particular identifying characteristic to sex, which can't be changed.

Why? You don't look your sex. You can look at gametes or chromosomes later, but normally it is not available at first contact. Having to produce a blood sample or gametes for a driver's license or a traffic stop is quite weird.

Stopped_lurking · Jun 23, 2026

essentialsaltes said:
She Changed Her ID to Comply with Kansas’ New Anti-Trans Law. Now, the State is Trying to Put Her in Jail for Having an 'Inaccurate' License.
Update 11:25 a.m.: Good news: the charge against Ripper has been dismissed by the county prosecutor! The original story, which details the case itself, has been preserved below. Regardless of the outcome, it’s worth a read.

On May 5th, Ripper was driving home from work in the rain. Because it was sunny, her car’s headlights had automatically turned off. That caught the attention of a cop, and she was pulled over.

“After seeing my license, he spent like 10 minutes questioning me on if my license was real before I explained to him that I am a transgender woman,” Ripper said. “It has to say ‘M’ legally.”

“He just awkwardly gave it back to me and sent me on my way with a verbal warning,” she added. Ripper maintains that she wasn’t issued a citation of any kind.

But yesterday, she received a notice in the mail that she had failed to appear before her county’s court for an arraignment.

Her charge? Operating a motor vehicle without a valid license, a class B misdemeanor that carries 6 months of jail time and/or a $1,000 fine, as well as a permanent criminal record.

For something for which its major purpose is to be matched with someone's appearance, gender makes more sense than sex. It is not perfect, because gender expression is not a 1 to 1 reflection of gender identity.

rjs330 · Jun 28, 2026

If you change your appearance so much to look like the opposite sex then you should either go in and get a new driver license or be prepared for a difficult discussion with a police officer. Its a choice you made and you'll have to deal with the consequences of it. Accept the responsibility.

We all should do that. Human nature is not to accept the responsibilities that come with choices we make. We want to blame or avoid far too often. What really makes the difference and allows us to move on is to accept responsibility and make the needed change. Going and getting a new license which matches your transformation is an inconvenience and costs some money. But sometimes thats the small cost if taking responsibility and holding yourself accountable.

With New Momentum, Republican States Push Broader Limits for Trans Americans

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1 Straw Man Fallacy​

2 Reductio ad Absurdum (misused / sarcastic form)​

3 False Dichotomy (implicit)​

4 Loaded Language / Appeal to Ridicule​

Stuck on a ship.

1 Straw Man Fallacy​

2 Reductio ad Absurdum (misused / sarcastic form)​

3 False Dichotomy (implicit)​

4 Loaded Language / Appeal to Ridicule​

Stuck on a ship.

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She Changed Her ID to Comply with Kansas’ New Anti-Trans Law. Now, the State is Trying to Put Her in Jail for Having an 'Inaccurate' License.​

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She Changed Her ID to Comply with Kansas’ New Anti-Trans Law. Now, the State is Trying to Put Her in Jail for Having an 'Inaccurate' License.​

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Similar threads

1 Straw Man Fallacy

2 Reductio ad Absurdum (misused / sarcastic form)

3 False Dichotomy (implicit)

4 Loaded Language / Appeal to Ridicule

1 Straw Man Fallacy

2 Reductio ad Absurdum (misused / sarcastic form)

3 False Dichotomy (implicit)

4 Loaded Language / Appeal to Ridicule

She Changed Her ID to Comply with Kansas’ New Anti-Trans Law. Now, the State is Trying to Put Her in Jail for Having an 'Inaccurate' License.

She Changed Her ID to Comply with Kansas’ New Anti-Trans Law. Now, the State is Trying to Put Her in Jail for Having an 'Inaccurate' License.