Hebrews 8 shows us that Christ gave the TEN Commandments - Christ's Commandments

BobRyan · May 13, 2023

atpollard said:
1689 Baptist Confession of Faith, Chapter 19, Paragraph 6 (in modern English):

6. True believers are not under the law as a covenant of works, to be justified or condemned by it.13 Yet it is very useful to them and to others as a rule of life that informs them of the will of God and their duty. It directs and obligates them to live according to its precepts. It also exposes the sinful corruptions of their natures, hearts, and lives. As they examine themselves in light of the law, they come to further conviction of, humiliation for, and hatred of sin,14 along with a clearer view of their need for Christ and the perfection of his obedience. The law is also useful to the regenerate to restrain their corruptions because it forbids sin. The punishment threatened by the law shows them what even their sins deserve and what troubles they may expect in this life due to their sin, even though they are freed from the curse and undiminished severity of it. The promises of the law likewise show them God’s approval of obedience and the blessings they may expect when they keep it, even though these blessings are not owed to them by the law as a covenant of works. If people do good and refrain from evil because the law encourages good and discourages evil, that does not indicate that they are under the law and not under grace.15

13 Romans 6:14; Galatians 2:16; Romans 8:1; 10:4.
14 Romans 3:20; 7:7, etc;
15 Romans 6:12–14; 1 Peter 3:8–13.

(Just to clarify a point raised earlier about what it says and does not say about the 10 Commandments.)

(Just to clarify a point raised earlier about what The Baptist Confession of Faith sectn 19 says and does not say about the 10_
19. The Law of God

from: The Baptist Confession of Faith (1689)

1. God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience which was written in his heart, and He gave him very specific instruction about not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. By this Adam and all his descendants were bound to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience, being promised life upon the fulfilling of the law, and threatened with death upon the breach of it. At the same time Adam was endued with power and ability to keep it.

2. The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the ten commandments, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.

3. Besides this law, commonly called the moral law, God was pleased do give the people of Israel ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances. These ordinances were partly about their worship, and in them Christ was prefigured along with His attributes and qualities, His actions, His sufferings and His benefits. These ordinances also gave instructions about different moral duties. All of these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the time of reformation, when Jesus Christ the true Messiah and the only lawgiver, Who was furnished with power from the Father for this end, cancelled them and took them away.

4. To the people of Israel He also gave sundry judicial laws which expired when they ceased to be a nation. These are not binding on anyone now by virtue of their being part of the laws of that nation, but their general equity continue to be applicable in modern times.

5. The moral law ever binds to obedience everyone, justified people as well as others, and not only out of regard for the matter contained in it, but also out of respect for the authority of God the Creator, Who gave the law. Nor does Christ in the Gospel dissolve this law in any way, but He considerably strengthens our obligation to obey it.

BobRyan · May 13, 2023

Bob S said:
How can Gentiles "be left off the hook" when we were never on the "hook"?

Until you read Rom 3:
19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God ;20 because by the works of the Law none of mankind will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes knowledge of sin.... Rom 3:23 "ALL have sinned"

BobRyan · May 13, 2023

expos4ever said:
Let's revisit this text from Romans 7:

But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the [h]Spirit and not in oldness of the letter

We are being asked to believe that when Paul says we are released from the Law, he means that we still have to follow it,

Paul said "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
Paul said only the lost "do not submit to the Law of God - neither indeed CAN they" Rom 8:4-9
Paul said "31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? Far from it! On the contrary, we establish the Law." Rom 3:31

And in Rom 7:
7 What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? Far from it! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead. ...12 So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.

13 Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? Far from it! Rather it was sin,

14 For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am fleshly, sold into bondage to sin. 15 For I do not understand what I am doing; for I am not practicing what I want to do, but I do the very thing I hate. 16 However, if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, that the Law is good. 17 But now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that good does not dwell in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. 19 For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. 20 But if I do the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin that dwells in me.

21 I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. 22 For I joyfully agree with the law of God in the inner person, 23 but I see a different law in the parts of my body waging war against the law of my mind, and making me a prisoner of the law of sin, the law which is in my body’s parts.

====================

So then in the opening of chapter 7 Paul references the rulership of the Law that condemns the sinner to death and that the person cannot escape that sentence of death except in the Gospel where we die to sin (as Paul reminds us in Rom 6 which is the CONTEXT for Rom 7)

BobRyan · May 13, 2023

expos4ever said:
Here is the problem: you appear to believe it is acceptable to change the meaning of words and concepts in order to force-fit this text into your position.

The problem is that I read scripture and pay attention to details in the parts you keep skimming/skipping/omitting in your posts.

Paul said "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
Paul said only the lost "do not submit to the Law of God - neither indeed CAN they" Rom 8:4-9
Paul said "31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? Far from it! On the contrary, we establish the Law." Rom 3:31

Including major sections of Rom 7 that you keep omitting as noted in my prior posts repeatedly and then again here #503

BobRyan · May 13, 2023

Bob S said:
By the way, I am not in the least impressed as to what any of the other denominations think and I wonder why you would ever quote most of the other denominations

I am just pointing that some Bible details are soooo incredibly obvious that BOTH sides of the Sabbath debate affirm them.

Is it any wonder that almost every Christian denomination on Earth affirms the continued *"unit of TEN" for Christians today?

BOTH sides admit to it. (A level of objectivity that you seem to find no value in having - but of course you can choose as you wish)

BobRyan · May 13, 2023

expos4ever said:
Let me remind readers of what Paul actually writes:

But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound,

Paul says ALL mankind is condemned by the "Law" - all are under the Law and condemned as sinners Rom 3:19-23 this is irrefutable

Paul says that when we come to Christ we experience the death that the law demands by accepting Christ's death in our place and experiencing the New Birth - with death to self.

And Paul says -

BobRyan said:
Paul said "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
Paul said only the lost "do not submit to the Law of God - neither indeed CAN they" Rom 8:4-9
Paul said "31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? Far from it! On the contrary, we establish the Law." Rom 3:31

Including major sections of Rom 7 that you keep omitting as noted in my prior posts repeatedly and then again here #503

Bob S · May 14, 2023

BobRyan said:
Until you read Rom 3:
19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God ;20 because by the works of the Law none of mankind will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes knowledge of sin.... Rom 3:23 "ALL have sinned"

Let us analyze your answer. We know that the Law Paul was referring to was the one given at Sinai, 613 COMMANDS of the Sinai covenant. The Israelites needed the knowledge because they were not taught morality as slaves in Egypt. In His dealings with those He led out of Egypt He was not concerned with the rest of His creation, so the commands He gave them were for Israel only. Verse 19 tells that to the reader. Gentile nations were never invited to take part in His agreement with the Israelites. The Law speaks to only those who are under the Law. ROMANS 3 DOESN'T CHANGE THAT FACT BOB. YOUR "UNTIL YOU READ ROM 3" IS A BUNCH OF NONSENSE in trying to nullify the fact that Gentiles were never under the Law. Your third grade educated prophet has taught you something that is not true. Because of her you believe somehow that you too are somehow subject to the Laws given only to Israel. And the fact is Jesus never went around trying to convince Gentiles to observe old covenant rituals. What gives you that right?

Egypt

Bob S · May 14, 2023

BobRyan said:
I am just pointing that some Bible details are soooo incredibly obvious that BOTH sides of the Sabbath debate affirm them.

Is it any wonder that almost every Christian denomination on Earth affirms the continued *"unit of TEN" for Christians today?

BOTH sides admit to it. (A level of objectivity that you seem to find no value in having - but of course you can choose as you wish)

By saying "both sides" do you mean Adventists and other Christian denominations? Does that somehow make it full proof like 2 plus 2 is four? Should I believe it because both sides believe it? Of course, that is not in the least true. I would say that is a pretty dumb way to prove anything.

BobRyan · May 15, 2023

Bob S said:
By saying "both sides" do you mean Adventists and other Christian denominations?

For anyone awake and paying attention to people who post in "Sabbath and the Law" it is pretty obvious that more people are posting in favor of the Bible Sabbath - than just "Adventists".

A Partial List of 7th Day Assemblies

1st Chronicles of the Living God Ministries Inc 11th Hour Apostolic Sabbatarian Church 7th Day Bible Church 7th Day Church of God A Church of God Ministry A Congregation in St. Louis Aaronic Order (House of Aharon) Abiding Faith In Truth Church Inc. Abunda Life Church Active Bible Church of God...

www.christianforums.com

Are you now saying you are new to this forum area Bob?

BobRyan · May 15, 2023

Bob S said:
How can Gentiles "be left off the hook" when we were never on the "hook"?

Until you read Rom 3:
19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God ;20 because by the works of the Law none of mankind will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes knowledge of sin.... Rom 3:23 "ALL have sinned"

Bob S said:
Let us analyze your answer.

Ok - I like this... Lets do!

Bob S said:
We know that the Law Paul was referring to was the one given at Sinai, 613 COMMANDS of the Sinai covenant.

No doubt Paul is referring to the actual Law of God known to his readers at the time he is writing his letter to the Romans. Both Jews and gentiles. And that most certainly includes the what they would find when reading what Christ calls "all the scriptures" in Luke chapter 24 as quoted by Luke.

So then that SAME chapter - Rom 3:19-20 points out that this LAW of God known by those who read scripture - condemns the entire world "every mouth shut" for "all have sinned" Rom 3:23.. Therefore all need the gospel.

FredVB · Mar 11, 2026

expos4ever said:
I want to address a common line of reasoning used by those who maintain that the Law of Moses is still in force despite the "common sense" reading of this from Romans 7:

But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the [a]Spirit and not in oldness of the letter

At the outset, it needs to be said that these words are pretty clear - the Law is now history. How is this denied? Essentially by introducing a bizarre interpretation of what the concept of being "released from a law" means. We are told that to be released from a law means we are only released from the consequences of not obeying.

Hmm. That is pretty odd - if I am "released" from a law that requires me to limit my speed to 30 miles per hour on the highway, why would I assume I am still expected to obey that law?

Not to mention the further butchery that has to be inflicted on Paul's statement that we no longer serve according to the law. Are they redefining "serve according to" to mean "be condemned by"?

The release is because of God's grace, but it is not release from God's will as stated, but release from the consequences in the righteous justice, that which God does not compromise, because of Christ who bore what was needed, and who is released? It can only be those in Christ, it would not be the unrepentant who are apart from Christ. So the consequence of justice is still in place, coming to those unrepentant still apart from Christ.

atpollard said:
So … obviously the key is that we are free from the LAW to remarry GRACE. Stop panicking over “thou shall not” [because there is NO JUDGEMENT for we who believe] (John 3:18) and start focusing more on Ephesians 2:10 [being God’s masterwork and walking in His good works]. Best explained by Jesus and John and Paul as LOVE … God with all your all, and other folk at least as much as you do yourself.

So free from repentance then, no need for that? If there is repentance really present, there is turning from sins, to God through Christ, and then God's will matters, and Christ is Lord, what will that mean? ... 1 John 3:22

BobRyan · Mar 11, 2026

expos4ever said:
I want to address a common line of reasoning used by those who maintain that the Law of Moses is still in force despite the "common sense" reading of this from Romans 7:

But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the [a]Spirit and not in oldness of the letter

Romans 7 says

7 What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead. 9 I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died; 10 and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me; 11 for sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me. 12 So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.

13 Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful.

14 For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. 16 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. 17 So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

The LAW says that coveting is sin. Paul confesses that this is still the case, nothing changed. So also is "taking God's name in vain" a sin.

expos4ever said:
At the outset, it needs to be said that these words are pretty clear

no doubt

so are these

Rom 3:31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

FredVB · Mar 13, 2026

It is not about not being sin without the law which shows it, but about not knowing that such is sin. Many people are showing they don't have an understanding of what sin is. They are certainly not without sin, still. And Christian believers still have to learn of any sins they are yet to turn from. God is gracious to not dump all of what we should turn from on us all at once when we are coming to salvation. Growth which is so meaningful to a Christian walk is to yet happen, with more being learned to live with God.

Still notice that obedience and turning from sin, which should happen, is not claimed here to be the way anyone is saved, perfection is not needed to be saved, while Christ is calling for that, it must be with growth toward that.

FredVB · Jun 24, 2026

There is a lot of disagreement about what sin is. But it is with going against God's will. Certainly if you think you are doing something that is that, it is sin for you. Doing things hurtful or harmful to others which is without love would be sin, being against God's will. That there would not be doubt that there is sin, all of it without love for another, such is shown in what God reveals of what God said. The commandments are such, and Jesus affirmed them, even with explaining them further.

BobRyan · Jun 24, 2026

Bob S said:
Let us analyze your answer. We know that the Law Paul was referring to was the one given at Sinai,

No doubt and in Heb 10:4-11 Paul specifically singles out animal sacrifices and offerings as "Taken away".

Not once does Paul say "Do not take God's name in vain" is now obsoleted. This is not even a tiny bit difficult to see.

As we all know.

Bob S said:
YOUR "UNTIL YOU READ ROM 3" IS A BUNCH OF NONSENSE

wishful thinking much??

Bob S said:
in trying to nullify the fact that Gentiles were never under the Law.

Until you read Rom 1, 1 Cor 6, Gen 6, Lev 18...

read the BIble, be informed.

Bob S · Jun 25, 2026

BobRyan said:
No doubt and in Heb 10:4-11 Paul specifically singles out animal sacrifices and offerings as "Taken away".

Well now Bob, what you present here is a conundrum. You quote Heb 4, where Jews no longer need to sacrifice animals, but nothing about keeping feast days. You believe you have to honor the Israelite tithing laws (modified, of course) and the unclean animal laws, but fail to keep any other of the 603 commands that pertain to the individual Israelite. How can we take you seriously?

BobRyan said:
Not once does Paul say "Do not take God's name in vain" is now obsoleted. This is not even a tiny bit difficult to see.

Why would he have to mention not taking God's name in vain? That command is part of the Royal Law of Love Jesus gave man, love others as I have loved you. Would Jesus ever take the name of the Father in vain? Would Jesus ever feel the need to kill the Father? You hold the Ten Commandments up as the beacon, but the Ten didn't even mention the greatest command of all, LOVE.

BobRyan said:
Until you read Rom 1, 1 Cor 6, Gen 6, Lev 18...

read the BIble, be informed.

Did you read Rom1, 1Cor6, Gen6 and Lev 18 before you posted them as an answer to my statement that the Gentiles were never under the Law 9given to Israel)??? If you had, you would not have posted them because they do not prove the point I made.

BobRyan · Jun 25, 2026

No doubt and in Heb 10:4-11 Paul specifically singles out animal sacrifices and offerings as "Taken away".

hint: This is the 'easy part"

Bob S said:
Well now Bob, what you present here is a conundrum.

Sorry to hear of your difficulty , that was "the easy part"

Heb 10 says regarding the animal sacrifices and offerings "He takes away the first to establish the second" speaking of the Atonement of Christ replacing animal sacrifices. I am surprised you find this difficult

Bob S said:
You quote Heb 4, where Jews no longer need to sacrifice animals

I am referencing Heb 10 verse four.

You may need to spend a little more time with the Bible for this topic

Bob S said:
, but nothing about keeping feast days. You believe you have to honor the Israelite tithing laws

I would never press the more difficult topics with you. Let's try to get this easy one correct. Have another shot at it.

start by actually looking at Heb 10 reference in my post you responded to above

Heb 10:
3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins year by year. 4 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. 5 Therefore, when He comes into the world, He says,

“Sacrifice and offering You have not desired,
But a body You have prepared for Me;
6 In whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You have taken no pleasure.
7 “Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come
(In the scroll of the book it is written of Me)
To do Your will, O God.’”

8 After saying above, “Sacrifices and offerings and whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You have not desired, nor have You taken pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the Law), 9 then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will.” He takes away the first in order to establish the second. 10 By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

This just isn't that hard.

Bob S said:
(modified, of course) and the unclean animal laws, but fail to keep any other of the 603 commands that pertain to the individual Israelite. How can we take you seriously?

The text does not say "not only does He take away the animal sacrifices and offerings but also the 613 other statements in OT scripture"

Sorry you found that inserting things into the text is not working for you
====================

By the way the subject and title of this thread is in regard to the New Covenant quoted verbatim in Heb 8 where we find that it is Christ speaking His Commandments at Sinai.

Another detail that is not that hard to read and follow for those actually reading Heb 8.

BobRyan · Jun 25, 2026

Bob S said:
Did you read Rom1, 1Cor6, Gen6 and Lev 18 before you posted them as an answer to my statement that the Gentiles were never under the Law 9given to Israel)??? If you had, you would not have posted them because they do not prove the point I made.

did you read those texts?
Apparently not.

Will it help if I read the Bible to you?

1 Cor 6 written to a gentile church holds them accountable to OT condemnation of sin

7 Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be defrauded? 8 On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren.

9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

Gen 6 God condemns the entire gentile world for their sin

Lev 18 God condemns all the gentiles nations in Canaan prior to Israel for sins lists in Lev 18

How is it you find the easy part to be so difficult to understand? I am surprised.

Bob S · Jun 26, 2026

BobRyan said:
did you read those texts?
Apparently not.

Will it help if I read the Bible to you?

1 Cor 6 written to a gentile church holds them accountable to OT condemnation of sin

7 Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be defrauded? 8 On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren.

9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

Gen 6 God condemns the entire gentile world for their sin

Lev 18 God condemns all the gentiles nations in Canaan prior to Israel for sins lists in Lev 18

How is it you find the easy part to be so difficult to understand? I am surprised.

So Bob, you are using those verses to tell us Gentiles were under the old covenant laws? Gentiles were forbidden to cut their sideburns?? Gentiles were to tithe to the Levites??

FredVB · Jun 30, 2026

There are things indeed that were really for the people of Israel to do, while many among them were failing to do those, yet the faithful among the Jews from them were called to observe them. It isn't bad to observe feasts for Israel, though we do not need to do things for it exactly in the same ways, that is better than celebrating in ways not even shown in the Bible at all. But the commandments that God spoke audibly and wrote right into stone in the way it could be understood at that time was really what is right for everyone, and further commandments given to the people there were for conforming to those commandments, or otherwise what was pointing to the priesthood, the sacrifices, and the ways needed for being clean to come before God that are all really in Christ, in whom there is the fulfillment, that what preceded for those things was symbolic for.

Hebrews 8 shows us that Christ gave the TEN Commandments - Christ's Commandments

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1689 Baptist Confession of Faith, Chapter 19, Paragraph 6 (in modern English):