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I like you Pommer. But Iran was developing nukes. That's just a fact. Im sorry you can't see that.
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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Will Trump's resounding and definitive win cause Democrats to reflect?
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Akita Suggagaki
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OP might better now read, “Will Trump’s resounding and definitive failure in Iran cause Republicans to reflect?
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- Aug 3, 2012
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On what do you base your belief in these supposed facts? Who showed that Iran was developing nukes? When did they show it?
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- Dec 28, 2016
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It's a good thing God used Trump to stop Iran from getting nukes or the world would be facing down the barrel of a nuclear holocaust!
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- Aug 3, 2012
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That's a funny way of saying that God gave Trump a second chance to clean up his own mess.
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DaisyDay
I Did Nothing Wrong!! ~~Team Deep State
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Pique. Trump spent his first term deliberately and systematically undoing Obama's achievements.
Obviously not. His deals have been worse and worse. And so far, he has failed to get a better deal, a worse deal or any deal at all. He should have had something better or even just barely adequate before he tore up the working deal.
Sanctions can work and sanctions can backfire. In this particular case, they incentivized Iran towards nuclear development.
The sanctions Trump imposed not only failed to stop Iran from enriching uranium (so nice of you to admit this) but got them to enrich the uranium past agreed upon levels. Bombing wouldn't be "necessary" if the sanctions had worked. The school girls would not have been wiped off the map if sanctions worked.
I have not downplayed it, but - and this bears repeating - Iran is NOT nuclear armed. Trump claimed to have wiped out their nuclear capabilities with Operation Midnight Hammer a year ago. How Iran recovered from having their capabilities completely obliterated to within moments of being fully armed is a mystery.
We have NO deal. Having no deal at all is clearly worse than JCPOA ever was. Trump tanked the international deal and replaced it with no deal.
There was a 24 day cap, meaning at most a 24 day delay, in inspection of suspicious sites. Once the 2015 deal got nixed, there was no cap, no advance notice because there were to be no inspections without the agreement.
This is where sanctions were to come into play. Instead, Trump imposed sanctions with no hope of inspections.
That analogy doesn't hold water. Iran is not in our basement, is not in a metaphorical residence under our control, so they would be smoking crack in their own basement. If nuclear weapon development is metaphorically smoking crack, then the United States and Russia are the biggest crack smokers on the planet. Iran's neighbor and enemy Israel is also smoking crack in its basement.
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essentialsaltes
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25 years ago, and then they stopped, and US intelligence judges they never restarted their development plan for a nuclear device.
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Laodicean60
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Maybe because Obama did it, it was working except in places where inspectors weren't allowed to go. The JCPOA sunset provision took effect in 2025, which allows enrichment. Iran just got a head start on weapons grade enrichment because of Trump. We've talked to these fanatics for 40 years, and they are still blowing people up. Maybe this hard tactic will work to put the nukes to bed. And their Gulf neighbors certainly don't want a nuclear Iran.
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- Dec 28, 2016
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Then why did Israel preemptively attack Iran for 12 days in operation Rising Lion?
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- May 12, 2011
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I can theorize multiple reasons:
1. Netanyahu was grasping at straws trying to keep himself in power (and out of jail)
2. Israel and Iran have been in conflict for decades; this was simply another escalation.
3. Israel felt threatened by Iran's stockpiling of moderately-enriched nuclear material (note that this is not the same thing as actively developing a nuclear weapon)
4. The Israeli government thought they could rope in Trump and end Iran as a threat for good.
Also, note that the events you're referring to occurred seven years after Trump ripped up the JCPOA without a suitable replacement.
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- Dec 28, 2016
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Oh gee, I wonder why.
Ill take the assessment of Mossad and the intelligence community over the speculations of armchair experts on this website.
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essentialsaltes
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AI Overview (Google "us intelligence on iran nuclear program")
U.S. intelligence assesses that Iran is currently not building a nuclear weapon. While Iran retains the technical capability to produce fissile material and has expanded its uranium enrichment capabilities, the U.S. Intelligence Community consistently maintains that Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei has not reauthorized a dedicated nuclear weapons program.
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- May 12, 2011
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The assessment was made prior to his death.
I don't blame them for feeling threatened. But Israel feeling threatened does not mean that Iran was actively developing a nuclear weapon, as you claimed.
As has already been pointed out to you, the US intelligence community assessment is, and has been, that Iran stopped active development of nuclear weapons in 2003 and has not resumed them since. They've continued to enrich and stockpile uranium, and have kept themselves at a point where they could have a nuclear weapon within 8-12 months should they desire it, but that appears to be their method of nuclear deterrence. We do not know what the Mossad assessment is, and we likely never will.
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- Dec 28, 2016
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Saltes just asked the question now. Iran is not enriching uranium any longer because it's enrichment program has been decimated. If he had asked the same question a year ago he would have gotten a different response, I think.
That doesn't explain why they entered the conflict with Iran in February. You guys are basically arguing that U.S. went into Iran for no reason at all.
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- May 12, 2011
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Gemini cites its sources. You can try asking yourself and see when the references are from - no need to speculate.
See, now you're getting it. Trump was looking for a distraction from Venezuela and the Epstein Files and wanted a way to pad his legacy, and Netanyahu convinced him that this would be an easy win. Just because the intelligence community makes an assessment does not mean that the President is obligated to heed it.
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essentialsaltes
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Don't be fatuous.
AI Overview (Google: "us intelligence on iran nuclear program from 2010 to 2024")
U.S. intelligence has consistently assessed that Iran suspended its organized, structured nuclear weapons program in 2003 and has not reauthorized a formal development program since.
2022–2024: Accelerated Fissile Material Production
Advanced Enrichment: The 2024 Annual Threat Assessment by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence (ODNI) noted that Iran had significantly advanced its nuclear capabilities.
Weaponization Status: The ODNI reiterated that Iran was not actively undertaking the key development activities necessary to produce a testable nuclear device
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- Dec 28, 2016
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So let me get this straight. Trump entered the conflict with Iran in order to raise the price of gas and groceries, hurt the stock market and tank his approval ratings for no reason at all.
Am I with you so far? Or was there a sense of urgency involved? That action needed to be taken.
Am I with you so far? Or was there a sense of urgency involved? That action needed to be taken.
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- Aug 3, 2012
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Your entire argument is based on 1.) trust in Trump's judgment and 2.) your (probably misguided) beliefs regarding Mossad's assessment of Iran's capabilities.
People have already answered your questions about why Trump did it. The best answer is "pique" or "a feeling of wounded vanity".
As he's demonstrated over and over and over, he's dishonest, impetuous, and exercises poor judgment. He probably thought he could get a better deal than Obama, but that's because he's wildly over-confident and prone to ignoring important details. He probably thought he could easily bully Iran into complying, but again, he's over-confident and prone to ignoring important details.
There's a reason previous presidents were reluctant to attack Iran directly. Trump thought he was smarter than them. He was wrong.
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