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Questions About Prophets & Prophecy.

johansen

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With regard to the prophetic, i find it is hardly even allowed to be discussed on this website


Isnt that interesting.


It will not supprise me if in 10 years time you will not find a single free and open christian community on the WWW.

God will have moved all of it to invite only private servers, just as it was 1900 years ago. (For the pedantic, the equivalent thereof)
 
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Aussie52

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With regard to the prophetic, i find it is hardly even allowed to be discussed on this website


Isnt that interesting.


It will not supprise me if in 10 years time you will not find a single free and open christian community on the WWW.

God will have moved all of it to invite only private servers, just as it was 1900 years ago. (For the pedantic, the equivalent thereof)
I think you will find that the 'Marriage Bed' thread was canned because a certain individual was being abusive and disrespectful to other posters.
It had nothing to do with the prophetic.
 
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RandyPNW

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Your last paragraph is very questionable. The OT definitely tells us that if a prophet gives a false prediction, they are false prophets. The prophets in both OT & NT spoke under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit and were free from error. There are not two types of true prophets in Scripture, one's without error and others that are 'capable of error'.
I also do not believe there are true prophets today. Eph 2:20 tells us that the ministry of the Prophet was 'foundational'. Once a structure (Church) is erected, there is no need to re-build a foundation again. The Church no longer needs prophetic revelation in the person of prophets as we have God's final revelation in the completed canon of Scripture
Yes, this is all questionable to me, as well, as I indicated from the start. I hold my current positions because I've witnessed prophecies from those like David Wilkerson, John Jackson, and Kim Clement give utterly amazing true prophecies.

The Vision had amazing fulfillments, even if some remain unfulfilled. The same could be said for the Perfect Storm and for the prophecies of Trump, the "Trumpet." Amazing prophecies that I don't think anybody could anticipate--the fall of the Berlin wall during the Cold War, specifically-identified weather events, and the political rise of Trump appear to be breath-taking in scope.

Were these so-called "prophets" perfect? No, I don't think that even the biblical Prophets were perfect. You can read all about Jeremiah's complaints or Jonah's resistance to obedience in their own books. But biblical books are kept free of questionable doctrine, and are reliably true prophecies.

We read of other men in the Bible who were called "prophets" legitimately, and yet were flawed. There were the prophets who insisted on searching for Elijah's body, and the prophet who misled another prophet to his death. 1 Kings 13; 2 Kings 2.

In the NT, Agabus' prophecy about Paul (Acts 21) was viewed more as a prophetic warning than a deterministic set of events that must happen to Paul. It was recognized that some prophecies were in fact warnings, and not just predictive events, such as Joah's prophecy that Nineveh would be destroyed when it repented and avoided that judgment.

I do agree that early NT prophets worked together with the initial apostles of Christ to establish a foundational doctrine based on Christ as cornerstone of the new spiritual temple of God. But this does not mean, necessarily, that prophets were to be confined to this "foundational" ministry.

Certainly apostles and prophets in the Early Church are to be identified as "foundational" ministries. But confining high leadership such as apostles cannot have been restricted only to the 1st century, and prophets appear to be a regular part of church order according to Paul ini 1 Cor 14.

But it's something we are required to judge, as even Paul said that those who speak in churches must be judged by other leaders. Thank you for your thoughts. My own beliefs are not "set in stone."
 
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RandyPNW

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I think you will find that the 'Marriage Bed' thread was canned because a certain individual was being abusive and disrespectful to other posters.
It had nothing to do with the prophetic.
That may be true, but I have found that in the past 25 years of being on Usenet and Christian moderated chat sites that cliques emerge between moderators and certain regulars who then suppress doctrines that they do not favor. I'm not saying that in regard to this particular site--it may or may not be true--I hope not.

We just have to go where God allows us to speak freely. I was recently abused by a moderator on another site who did not like my beliefs and then proceeded to misrepresent what I actually said and what I actually believe. And he would not let me correct the misrepresentations. It happens.

I think it best to leave out criticism of forum management as best we can. Or, something worse than censorship will happen. We are all imperfect and have to live with not just flawed management but our own flawed tempers as well. ;) It will be worse if there are no forums at all!
 
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Aussie52

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Yes, this is all questionable to me, as well, as I indicated from the start. I hold my current positions because I've witnessed prophecies from those like David Wilkerson, John Jackson, and Kim Clement give utterly amazing true prophecies.

The Vision had amazing fulfillments, even if some remain unfulfilled. The same could be said for the Perfect Storm and for the prophecies of Trump, the "Trumpet." Amazing prophecies that I don't think anybody could anticipate--the fall of the Berlin wall during the Cold War, specifically-identified weather events, and the political rise of Trump appear to be breath-taking in scope.

Were these so-called "prophets" perfect? No, I don't think that even the biblical Prophets were perfect. You can read all about Jeremiah's complaints or Jonah's resistance to obedience in their own books. But biblical books are kept free of questionable doctrine, and are reliably true prophecies.

We read of other men in the Bible who were called "prophets" legitimately, and yet were flawed. There were the prophets who insisted on searching for Elijah's body, and the prophet who misled another prophet to his death. 1 Kings 13; 2 Kings 2.

In the NT, Agabus' prophecy about Paul (Acts 21) was viewed more as a prophetic warning than a deterministic set of events that must happen to Paul. It was recognized that some prophecies were in fact warnings, and not just predictive events, such as Joah's prophecy that Nineveh would be destroyed when it repented and avoided that judgment.

I do agree that early NT prophets worked together with the initial apostles of Christ to establish a foundational doctrine based on Christ as cornerstone of the new spiritual temple of God. But this does not mean, necessarily, that prophets were to be confined to this "foundational" ministry.

Certainly apostles and prophets in the Early Church are to be identified as "foundational" ministries. But confining high leadership such as apostles cannot have been restricted only to the 1st century, and prophets appear to be a regular part of church order according to Paul ini 1 Cor 14.

But it's something we are required to judge, as even Paul said that those who speak in churches must be judged by other leaders. Thank you for your thoughts. My own beliefs are not "set in stone."
Didn't David Wilkerson prophesy in the Vision that California would be hit by a massive earthquake and be destroyed?
If in fact he did, that would make his prophesy false.
 
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johansen

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25 years of being on Usenet and Christian moderated chat sites that cliques emerge between moderators and certain regulars who then suppress doctrines that they do not favor.

Its not just doctrine it is persons. And as for that thread, the reasons listed for its closing had nothing to do with supposed personal messages.

Requesting specific prayers for deliverance from demonic activity, or requesting advice on how to exorcise or bind demons is not allowed.

To start with, no such request was made, nor was such advice provided.

And as for flaming, there was none.
 
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johansen

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Didn't David Wilkerson prophesy in the Vision that California would be hit by a massive earthquake and be destroyed?
If in fact he did, that would make his prophesy false.
I was present in aug 2012 at a church in kitsap county where john paul jackson made his usual perfect storm prophecies of californias destruction.

He also spent 2 hours interpreting dreams turning all of them into fairy tales and said that dreams in color are from God and dreams in black and white are from the devil lol.

He appeared frozen in fear and stared at me while he interpreted a certain persons dream, a dream i knew was nonsense and was triggered by me showing the man an interesting false prophecy found on steve quayles website.
 
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stevevw

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Predictions about California having an earthquake is not all biblical. This is an obvious prediction considering it is located along the San Andreas Fault line.

The more time that goes by the more pressure that builds up and the more likelihood of an earthquake. There are many such faultlines around the world we could make predictions about.

What I find more interesting is that it seems the faultline runs along some of the richest areas where most reject God and live in sin.

I don't think God makes earthquakes happen and they are still subject to the earth's geology.

In saying that I think there is a connection between sin and the earth. We know defying Gods nature will have consequences. Global warming can cause massive hurricanes and arid lands.

I think generally earthquakes and disaster will happen as a matter of nature. We naturally link this to God, and I don't think this is unreal. People blame God for natural disasters killing innocents.

But there are times like with Sodom and Gomorrah where Gods judgement and disasters seem to line up and people throughout history have derived lessons from this about the consequences of rejecting God.

An interesting example is the 10 plagues in Egypt during the time of the Exodus. The bible records these plagues as Gods judgement for rejecting Him. Moses had pleaded and even shown the pharaoh that God was the only true God over the Egyptian pagan Gods. But still they rejected God plague after plague.

But we also have some text from the Egyptian side where they record several disasters like the river turning red and pestilence and disease. Historically no one knows what happened to the pharaohs first born son as the 2nd born son became the new pharaoh.

Some historians explain the plagues as natural disasters where one plague brought about another as the natural environment broke down.

But nevertheless, the overriding theological lesson that stood in the minds of the Israelites and all Christians was that this was a real event where God had brought about the disasters as a lesson to everyone. Which has stood the test of time.
 
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johansen

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What I find more interesting is that it seems the faultline runs along some of the richest areas where most reject God and live in sin.
its probably not a coincidence that attractive ports are going to have complex geography. you want a deep port but you also want a flat area(s) between the mountains to get goods distributed.

such areas are going to have complex layers of different types of soil and fill and rubble from rivers which found their way there.

so if a fault line is what produced those attractive deep harbors, then its no supprise when they get destroyed.

we don't hear about fault lines that ruptured in places no one lives...
 
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stevevw

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its probably not a coincidence that attractive ports are going to have complex geography. you want a deep port but you also want a flat area(s) between the mountains to get goods distributed.

such areas are going to have complex layers of different types of soil and fill and rubble from rivers which found their way there.

so if a fault line is what produced those attractive deep harbors, then its no supprise when they get destroyed.

we don't hear about fault lines that ruptured in places no one lives...
Yes there would be plenty and some or many perhaps in remote poor areas.

Thats why I say the reality of whether its something that involves God or a message or lesson from God is the aftermath and lived reality. How people will see and believe why it happened. That may take some time as lived experiences are told.

In some ways it is destined to become an event associated with Gods judgement as California is already percieved as a mecca for sin. We know that sin and rejecting God leads to bad consequences. But its not necessarily the case that natural disasters are from God.

as someone else mentioned its more about the world declining and decaying under the fall. The earth will breakdown under ou fallen nature that also affects creation.

A massive disaster like that would be a life changing event and naturally be a shock that caused people to reflect. It would upturn lives and the nation. The world in fact as we have seen with other disaters.
 
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BobRyan

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What is prophecy in Scripture?
In very simple terms, Biblical prophecy is God speaking through a person. It is essentially Spirit inspired communication- God revealing something to a person (the prophet) who then speaks it out to others.

Numbers 12:

6 He said,
“Hear now My words:
If there is a prophet among you,
I, the Lord, shall make Myself known to him in a vision.
I shall speak with him in a dream.
7 “Not so, with My servant Moses,
He is faithful in all My household;
8 With him I speak mouth to mouth,
Even openly, and not in dark sayings,
And he beholds the form of the Lord.
Why then were you not afraid
To speak against My servant, against Moses?”
Prophecy is to be evaluated, to test the genuineness of the prophetic word.
1. It was of God if it came to pass. Deut 18:22.
2. It should not cause people to depart from God. Deut 13:1-3.
3. Prophecy is to be judged 1 Cor 14:29, 1 Jn 4:1.
true
Questions to consider.

1. It is commonly taught by some that there is a difference between Old Testament Prophets and New Testament Prophets, and how they function. Can this be validated from Scripture or not?
it is not in scripture
2.There are many who claim to be prophets today. Is there any Scriptural proof for this claim or not?
yes the Bible says to test the prophets to see iF what they say is of God, is true. Acts 17:11
3. Is prophecy in the New Testament the same as the Old Testament or not?
Same Holy Spirit, same gift of prophecy
4. How do we view modern day so-called prophecy that often, does not come to pass, is often at variance with Scripture, and goes unjudged?
false prophets
5. How can the idea of modern prophecy that brings 'revelation' be reconciled with the closed canon of Scriptural revelation?
Many prophets in both OT and NT never wrote a word of scripture.

All scripture comes from the prophetic gift, but not all with that gift write scripture , see 1 Cor 14.
6. Is there genuine prophecy happening today or did it cease with the early church?

Please discuss your thoughts.
happens today but rarely
 
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